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Anyways, Josh Sawyer has been agonizing about tokenizing ship names because English doesn't use gender prepositions for ships (although ships are commonly referred to as female, but english language doesn't do that) and when he tries to localize to other languages that DO use gender nouns (the Romance languages for example, french, spanish, italian), he's running into problems in deciding how, and there are similar issues with Polish and Russian, but for other reasons.

 

Or tl;dr, localizing to other languages, especially when you're trying to deal with gender prepositions, cases, articles, can be a real PITA and he wants help and opinion from gamers.

 

His 'mood is like this' type image pic: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/948678512969375745

 

Twitter poll asking speakers of the mentioned languages how they feel about doing it: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/948690992089088002

 

Tumbler post on it: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/169284230541/the-problem-with-tokens

 

edit: Transgender ship preposition nouns anybody? lol, jk.

Edited by smjjames

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Ships are referred to as being whatever the Captain is privy to, because Captains are supposed to be married to their ships.

 

Also why can't there just be a generic prefix, article, adjective token. I don't really get the fuss. Seems like he's trying to control some sort of limiter feature that forces the player into some historic ship naming scheme. Just let people write in what they want. If I want ride the however many seas of Eora on Boaty McBoatface, the let me do so.

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I think those were just examples of ship names in english to show what he's talking about. It has to do with the localizaton and how the game refers to it or something. I know Spanish uses both El and La to mean 'the', but El is the masculine article and La is the feminine article, or something like that.

 

He's the kind of guy who agonizes over the details, so, not surprising that he would agonize over it.

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His 'mood is like this' type image pic: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/948678512969375745

 

Twitter poll asking speakers of the mentioned languages how they feel about doing it: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/948690992089088002

 

Tumbler post on it: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/169284230541/the-problem-with-tokens

 

edit: Transgender ship preposition nouns anybody? lol, jk.

Well, I usually play in English anyway, but I can see how it can be a headache for Russian localization. Probably not worth the hassle to make it work for all those problematic localizations. I like the easy fix suggestion about quote marks the most.

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Anyhow, Josh had a pair of Deadfire-related Tumblr posts yesterday.  Nothing too earthshaking to report.  On multiclass ability progression, and On MIG/STR/RES and a common martial ability pool

 

am feeling little sympathy for the min-max/munchkins who sudden find themselves needing actual make use o' all attributes... as were intended from the start o' poe development.  the wailing 'cause o' the curbing o' obvious dump stats is not genuine worth developer concern.  pine over the absence o' a busted quality o' the poe attribute system? 

 

*chuckle* 

 

nevertheless, we can see some value in an enhanced concentration quality attached to resolve. 

 

perhaps penetration? were something josh mentioned w/o providing any details.

 

suggestion:

 

1) revert strength/resolve to might/resolve, with spell and weapon damage being affected by might. 

 

2) return penetration to it's initial beta release form

 

3) allow a penetration bonus for concentration, modified by resolve.

 

penetration were only an issue at release o' the initial beta 'cause there were such limited options for increasing penetration.  a few weapons, spells, and abilities became essential 'cause o' penetration.  however, if there were a way for any player to enhance penetration via an increase in resolve, then one could hardly complain o' a dearth o' penetration options. you want to wield a greatsword and be able to do damage with it 'gainst a foe with any kinda armour more significant than a moth-eaten christmas sweater, then you better invest in resolve.  such a change would make penetration vital and would allow the player to make a meaningful character generation/development choice regarding penetration. 

 

the main drawback we see from such a scheme is it would likely require a complete retool o' armour/penetration numbers. if a player were needing two or three points o' resolve to see a single point o' increased penetration, then there is gonna be stoopid thresholds for resolve usefulness. such thresholds is antithetical to poe attribute goals. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps our favorite crpg romance were ravel's hopeless love for the tno, but the concept o' crpg romance has become so twisted and perverted in the intervening years that such a story don't even get consideration when game romance is debated.  the romance well has become irretrievably poisoned and as such am disappointed obsidian is taking the romance plunge with deadfire. is nothing new to say on the issue.  as far as we can tell, the same reasons for obsidian avoiding romance in poe remain in deadfire.  even so, while tangential and optional romance mini-games is inherent limited, they is undeniably popular.  gender bias? the gender bias o' the romances is a ridiculous minor issue compared to the basic limitations o' any such optional romances.  regardless, as we has observed ad nauseum, the optional nature o' such romances, while effective dooming 'em, makes 'em a minor concern for Gromnir.  would rather see the romance resources spent elsewhere, but am not gonna ignore the popularity o' such piffle. am understanding why a developer feels compelled to create another broken crpg romance.

 

we will be genuine shocked if we see any new perspective or insights on the crpg romance topic. fatigue.

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Guest 4ward

 

 

here‘s my proposal to the ship-naming issue:

 

1) Ship‘s name should appear in italic font

2) When the player is asked to name the ship, hint that the name will be referred to in-game and give typical example sentences

 

Say the name of the ship is princess, that‘ll look like this:

 

eng: Deathwave shoots on Princess

ger: Todeswelle schießt auf Prinzessin

slavic: Smrtni val puca na Tri Princeze (i‘m not familiar with Polish/Russian, this is Serbo-Croatian) :)

 

So, the player would be informed that for ger/fra/ita./etc. it would be better not to use the article before the name while players playing the Slavic versions, they would have to choose plurals or other words that fit in. So, i‘ll leave it to the player to figure it out and not ask Obisidian to invest so much effort into that.

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Ships are referred to as being whatever the Captain is privy to, because Captains are supposed to be married to their ships.

 

Also why can't there just be a generic prefix, article, adjective token. I don't really get the fuss. Seems like he's trying to control some sort of limiter feature that forces the player into some historic ship naming scheme. Just let people write in what they want. If I want ride the however many seas of Eora on Boaty McBoatface, the let me do so.

If it could easily be done Sawyer wouldn't have to ask. There is extra effort required here and he wants to find out if it's worth to put this effort in.

Edited by Beyond The Sea
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The issue Josh is dealing with, is that in some languages the sex will change certain words in the sentence. So let’s say you say:

 

Lord of Pain fired at Enemy Frigate

 

Lord of Pain fired at Enemy Frigate

 

However in polish it would be:

 

Pan Cierpienia wystrzlił we Wrogą Fregatę

But

Pani Cierpienia wystrzeliła we Wrogą Fregatę

 

Adjectives change depending on the sex of the subject. And the above is a very basic example. In simple sentences we rarely, for example need to use “I”, “he”, “she”, “it” as the information about whom the statement is made is often included within the form of adjective used.

 

In short, allowing player to specify the “sex” of his ship would require changes to most sentences or very very smart writing to not be grammatically incorrect.

 

As far as Josh inquiry - I really don’t know. I play English version precisely to avoid being distracted by translation problems. It would certainly bother me, I really don’t know if it would sabotage the experience.

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There is a solution to Josh's dilemma in this thread that seems to work for Slavic and French languagues (maybe others as well):

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95495-josh-sawyer-is-asking-frenchgeritaspaportpolishrussian-players-for-input-on-how-much-people-care-about-how-the-game-deals-with-ship-gendersyntax/?p=1967740

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There is a solution to Josh's dilemma in this thread that seems to work for Slavic and French languagues (maybe others as well):

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95495-josh-sawyer-is-asking-frenchgeritaspaportpolishrussian-players-for-input-on-how-much-people-care-about-how-the-game-deals-with-ship-gendersyntax/?p=1967740

Yeah. Stolen from the thread:

 

Ship "Defiant" fires its cannons at ship "Black Pearl".

 

Similar to the example I gave but avoids the problem of stating the sex of the subject. Smart wording as I said.

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There is a solution to Josh's dilemma in this thread that seems to work for Slavic and French languagues (maybe others as well):

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95495-josh-sawyer-is-asking-frenchgeritaspaportpolishrussian-players-for-input-on-how-much-people-care-about-how-the-game-deals-with-ship-gendersyntax/?p=1967740

Yeah. Stolen from the thread:

 

Ship "Defiant" fires its cannons at ship "Black Pearl".

 

Similar to the example I gave but avoids the problem of stating the sex of the subject. Smart wording as I said.

 

 

It's a potential solution, sure, but it still reads a bit awkwardly because in english you'd say 'the ship, black pearl'.

 

It'd work fine for a combat log, but not as well for dialogue or descriptive text.

Edited by smjjames
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It's a potential solution, sure, but it still reads a bit awkwardly because in english you'd say 'the ship, black pearl'.

 

 

 

It'd work fine for a combat log, but not as well for dialogue or descriptive text.

 

Well, I'm sure they can make a workaround to omit word 'ship' in English entirely if they want, but include it in other languages, it doesn't sound awkward in Russian, for example.

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I'm sure it sounds fine in Russian, but that also shows the problem he is grappling with because different languages have different grammar rules.

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I personally think ship “Defiant” sounds less awkward than not having a ‘the’ in front of the ship’s name.

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aside:  the ship naming convention problem is not.  

 

is not a problem and am not sure why josh is making it so.  doesn't matter what pronouns or articles russians use for ships.  similar, doesn't matter if folks germans use fatherland as 'posed to motherland.  is no germans or russians in deadfire.  duh. solution is simple to establish via lore/dialogue/whatever the gender o' eora (or at the very least, deadfire archipelago) ships.

 

problem solved.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I could swear the Skulking Terror is german though...


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Gee willikers, Batman. This "might" do the trick ;)

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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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haha! Getting immersed in Divinity 2. ha!

 

My money is that they are going full VO. Making a deal out of it if its anything less would be silly because... well D:OS2. As long as Deadfire will have writing worth being read/heard I am all for it.

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Anyone willing to place bets on how much will be voiced?

I don't know. I mean both Edér and Aloth were voiced by Matthew Mercer. Isn't he even more expensive now that he rose to fame as McCree and speaks at all those conventions? Is there enough money for all that? But if it is full V.O. I'm guessing this will either be part of a big release date announcement trailer or a separate PR story after the release date announcement ramping up to launch.

 

I absolutely loved DOS2 for a complete voice acting.

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Full VO sounds very expensive, but if the voice actors and not stars of the industry then maybe...

What I'm hoping for is that all major characters and companions get a full VO, everything else is a bonus.

Edited by Aramintai

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