Dear Black People

[pmp10]

EDIT: I was in the process of writing a very long response, but then I realised it boiled down to one simple question: How does the fact that other people enslaved other people influence black slavery in America? I mean, it doesn't male the slaves' suffering less real. Nor does it affect the American society today. And it most definitely does not justify anything. So what exactly is the purpose of it?

It establishes historical context for slavery, repression and exploitation in general.

Something both sides like to cheery-pick to push their agenda.

[Chilloutman]

 

Yeah but once you point out that maybe black women should be more responsible about who they sleep with you are get called racist. I am not expert it this field but what I know for sure is that cause of this issues is for sure not white people

 

Here is my standard teacher example for this situation. In my classroom, equity is more important than equality. Everyone is going to enter the class at different levels. My goal is not to move each student forward individually, my goal is to drag as many of them across the finish line as possible. That means some students are going to get more attention. My advanced students will be expected to help pull some people along with them. That is how we work as a community towards a successful goal. 

 

The whole idea that we are broken into white and black communities is a major problem. It's a flaw as an American if you think it is not your problem that we have minority communities struggling with poverty, education, etc. It keeps our country from being Great Again, as our illustrious leader likes to say, because we are not succeeding as a whole.

 

Now I am sure some people will read that and say it sounds like socialism or some other -ism, but in reality it is just about empathy. IM' not talking about policy at all, but actually trying to understand that we all have obstacles and it is both easier and decent when we work together to overcome them.

 

I understand your sentiment but if you would be teaching my kind I would be pretty pissed if you attend to him less because he is not stupid as other kids in class. You are basically pandering to lowest denominator in this process which is always bad. On other hand that is how it worked in my school and I still managed so.. whatever. But it will not win you sympathy of those kids/parents which are being overlooked because they are successful.

 

BTW in Czech rep we have new policy coming in that even slightly mentally handicapped kids should be accepted into normal classes so they have same chance for education as rest of population. It got huge backlash from parents

Edited May 4, 2017 by Chilloutman

[redneckdevil]

 

Yeah but once you point out that maybe black women should be more responsible about who they sleep with you are get called racist. I am not expert it this field but what I know for sure is that cause of this issues is for sure not white people

 

Here is my standard teacher example for this situation. In my classroom, equity is more important than equality. Everyone is going to enter the class at different levels. My goal is not to move each student forward individually, my goal is to drag as many of them across the finish line as possible. That means some students are going to get more attention. My advanced students will be expected to help pull some people along with them. That is how we work as a community towards a successful goal.

 

The whole idea that we are broken into white and black communities is a major problem. It's a flaw as an American if you think it is not your problem that we have minority communities struggling with poverty, education, etc. It keeps our country from being Great Again, as our illustrious leader likes to say, because we are not succeeding as a whole.

 

Now I am sure some people will read that and say it sounds like socialism or some other -ism, but in reality it is just about empathy. IM' not talking about policy at all, but actually trying to understand that we all have obstacles and it is both easier and decent when we work together to overcome them.

I agree it is difficult because of generalization and the amount of different people.

I think we separate them but fail to see that both sides are dealing with same problems just different looks.

I'll give examples.

Blacks have their ghettos and whites have there's but u call them trailer parks. You'll find both whites and blacks in each.

Poor man deadly drug for blacks, it's crack. Poor man deadly drug for whites is meth.

Both blacks and whites suffer poor and dangerous living conditions that are rampant with drugs. Both areas have atmosphere of despair and never leaving with both having low education in each.

Also morals and ethics are low in each as well because there's more to gain and survivability.

Hell when people say Jim Crow, they automatically think aggression towards blacks, but why does no one say or talk about alot of the same aggression towards poor people.

It is very complex because u have the poor pitted against each other for years and then u have to take in account upbringing, locations, etc.

One thing that both parties (and I would swing Democrat for alot of issues but not so much now) is trying to force and keep that wedge between.

To much opposition that both sides and I'd date say the Democrats are taking the lead bc of HOW they are going about it.

 

As to how to stop the racism part because its connected to other problems is I'd date say what Morgan Freeman would say

https://youtu.be/z2d2SzRZvsQ

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I think we separate them but fail to see that both sides are dealing with same problems just different looks.

I'll give examples.

Blacks have their ghettos and whites have there's but u call them trailer parks. You'll find both whites and blacks in each.

Poor man deadly drug for blacks, it's crack. Poor man deadly drug for whites is meth.

Both blacks and whites suffer poor and dangerous living conditions that are rampant with drugs. Both areas have atmosphere of despair and never leaving with both having low education in each.

 

Of course, taking a look at median household income disparity by race reveals that the issue is somewhat more complex than "well white people can be poor, too, so checkmate SJWs".

[redneckdevil]

 

I think we separate them but fail to see that both sides are dealing with same problems just different looks.

I'll give examples.

Blacks have their ghettos and whites have there's but u call them trailer parks. You'll find both whites and blacks in each.

Poor man deadly drug for blacks, it's crack. Poor man deadly drug for whites is meth.

Both blacks and whites suffer poor and dangerous living conditions that are rampant with drugs. Both areas have atmosphere of despair and never leaving with both having low education in each.

Of course, taking a look at median household income disparity by race reveals that the issue is somewhat more complex than "well white people can be poor, too, so checkmate SJWs".

I have one problem with that and that it's based on MEDIUM because their is a huge difference in numbers of population.

 

Another thing is all the info I can find doesn't have a total listing but a sample. I wish I could find something that had total population and the figures, figure the IRS would have something.

[Valsuelm]

 

I was not even talked about reparations. And I am not American so I can't say much about it. But its seems to me that race card is played there quite often to my taste. So again, what will make race card void in US?

Really and how often and can you give an example of what the "race card" being played is to you ?

 

 

One has to live under a rock, close their eyes and ears, or truly have a broken brain to not see it played nearly everywhere. Modern society is inundated with it. Drowning in it even.

 

• It's plastered everywhere in the 'Mainstream Media'.
• It's legally institutionalized in 'Affirmative Action', the 'Civil Rights Act', et al
• Touted over and over by referencing a 'Civil Rights Act' as some sacred and holy thing.
• If you question or have an issue with the aforementioned Act in any way, you're racist.
• If you question or have an issue with Immigration in any way, you're racist.
• You apply for a job, insurance, file taxes and many other things,you're asked what 'race' you are.
• 'White guilt'
• If you question of have issue with Islam, Muslims, or anyone hailing from a predominantly Islamic part of the world, you're racist (neverminding that believing in religion X doesn't actually change one's race)
• If you question or have issue with Israel, you're racist (neverminding that believing in religion X doesn't actually change one's race, but good luck telling that to those who actually think they are literally a master race and God's chosen.)
• If you thought or dared to say anything negative about Obama, you're racist.
• If you voted against Obama you're racist. (Voting against Ben Carson isn't).
• 'Uncle Tom' in modern pejorative
• If you post a video such as I posted on a forum, some people will get uncomfortable and triggered
• BLM, BET, National Association of Black/Jewish/Asian/Latin/etc (fill in the blank), etc (one can go one for a LONG time here)
• Good luck forming a 'National Association of White' anything and not being called a 'racist' or worse.
• All sorts of things associated with 'Native American' X
• Constant references to the 'KKK'

 

I could spend an hour or more listing things off the top of my head, and anyone with a brain could spend a lot more time that than compiling a list way longer than what I can come up with in an hour. Not to mention the oodles of things that aren't easily summed up in a sentence, or other things that could be that if mentioned would trigger some here on the most extreme level possible.

 

And we're just talking about the 'race card', there are other related things that could be mentioned (such as 'Sexism')...

 

[Valsuelm]

what Morgan Freeman would say

https://youtu.be/z2d2SzRZvsQ

A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Bartimaeus]

And 2017 we are at 7,5 billion. A billion is a million million. I feel like I have to write it out to really get the sense of scale.

 

...Uh, actually, a billion is a thousand times a million, not a million times a million. That would be a trillion.

[Volourn]

BLM is a murderous nazi organziation that jerks off at the murder of innocent cops and the shooting of innocent black mothers (who end up needing to eb saved by those evil racist white cops lol). They also have no problem claling blakc people nasty nasty words when they don't agree with them. (see Ben Carson a sprove. See the sttitude towards that one sherrif who is extremely nati BLM).

Edited May 5, 2017 by Volourn

[Malcador]

 

 

I was not even talked about reparations. And I am not American so I can't say much about it. But its seems to me that race card is played there quite often to my taste. So again, what will make race card void in US?

Really and how often and can you give an example of what the "race card" being played is to you ?

 

 

One has to live under a rock, close their eyes and ears, or truly have a broken brain to not see it played nearly everywhere. Modern society is inundated with it. Drowning in it even.

• It's plastered everywhere in the 'Mainstream Media'.
• It's legally institutionalized in 'Affirmative Action', the 'Civil Rights Act', et al
• Touted over and over by referencing a 'Civil Rights Act' as some sacred and holy thing.
• If you question or have an issue with the aforementioned Act in any way, you're racist.
• If you question or have an issue with Immigration in any way, you're racist.
• You apply for a job, insurance, file taxes and many other things,you're asked what 'race' you are.
• 'White guilt'
• If you question of have issue with Islam, Muslims, or anyone hailing from a predominantly Islamic part of the world, you're racist (neverminding that believing in religion X doesn't actually change one's race)
• If you question or have issue with Israel, you're racist (neverminding that believing in religion X doesn't actually change one's race, but good luck telling that to those who actually think they are literally a master race and God's chosen.)
• If you thought or dared to say anything negative about Obama, you're racist.
• If you voted against Obama you're racist. (Voting against Ben Carson isn't).
• 'Uncle Tom' in modern pejorative
• If you post a video such as I posted on a forum, some people will get uncomfortable and triggered
• BLM, BET, National Association of Black/Jewish/Asian/Latin/etc (fill in the blank), etc (one can go one for a LONG time here)
• Good luck forming a 'National Association of White' anything and not being called a 'racist' or worse.
• All sorts of things associated with 'Native American' X
• Constant references to the 'KKK'

I could spend an hour or more listing things off the top of my head, and anyone with a brain could spend a lot more time that than compiling a list way longer than what I can come up with in an hour. Not to mention the oodles of things that aren't easily summed up in a sentence, or other things that could be that if mentioned would trigger some here on the most extreme level possible.

 

And we're just talking about the 'race card', there are other related things that could be mentioned (such as 'Sexism')...

 

Well, you've 6 duplicates there . But playing the race card shouldn't be conflated with a serious belief one is being discriminated against, at least I've always seen it as someone trucking that out as a cheap dodge rather than actually complaining of facing bigotry.

 

Isn't it illegal to ask for race when applying for a job, apartment, etc. in the US ?

 

Heh, the "White Students Association" thing is funny in that I wonder at what group is it for.  At least in Canada, whites tend to be grouped by their heritage - well or just boring caker WASPs maybe - so you'd see associations for Serbs, Germans, Scots, etc. alongside clubs for Persians, Indians, etc. Also doesn't help that the people tending to form those groups aren't making it with much of a positive intentiion.

[Gorgon]

 

And 2017 we are at 7,5 billion. A billion is a million million. I feel like I have to write it out to really get the sense of scale.

 

...Uh, actually, a billion is a thousand times a million, not a million times a million. That would be a trillion.

In British English, a billion used to be equivalent to a million million (i.e. 1,000,000,000,000), while in American English it has always equated to a thousand million (i.e. 1,000,000,000).

In British English, a billion used to be equivalent to a million million (i.e. 1,000,000,000,000), while in American English it has always equated to a thousand million (i.e. 1,000,000,000).

 

This is my fig leaf, I will cling onto it determinedly.

[Bartimaeus]

Key words being "used to be",

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[Hurlshort]

 Not to mention the oodles of things that aren't easily summed up in a sentence, or other things that could be that if mentioned would trigger some here on the most extreme level possible.

 

 

You keep using that word. I'm guessing this thread and the "White Supremacy" thread are some sort of attempt by you to "trigger" people, but that hasn't really happened. Most people are engaging in a rather calm and rational discussion about societal issues. So who is this really 'triggering'?

[Leferd]

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-identity-politics-of-the-trump-administration/

 

I, for one believe that Christians and Whites receive less discrimination than Muslims, Immigrants, Blacks, and the LGBT community.

[Leferd]

This is about the situation in the United States.

 

I happen to have family via my sister-in-law, who are Assyrian Christians from Iraq. My family background also happen to be Christian minority from a Muslim majority country who immigrated to the US explicitly to escape ethnic and religious persecution.

 

That's a big reason why I happen to enjoy living in the US - and at the same time advocate for the protection of minority rights against majority rule and discrimination. I got skin in the game - so to speak.

[Guard Dog]

It occurs to me that we are losing what the real definition of discrimination is. This story hit the news here in the US this past week. A college student was reading their bible in the classroom prior to class. The class instructor felt "threatened" buy it and asked the student to put it away. The student refused to comply so the professor  called the campus police and had the student removed from the class.  Asking, or even telling the student to put away the bible is not discrimination. That's just being an as---le. Calling the police and having the student removed for reading a book before class IS discrimination because it it were any other book it likely would not have happened. 

 

Some (allegedly, stories vary) yelled racial slurs at Manny Machado from the Fenway Park outfield stands this week. That isn't discrimination. That's someone being as as---le. If Fenway Park wouldn't let Manny play there because his skin color, that is discrimination. If a bunch of jerks burn down a mosque that is arson. If the police don't do anything about it it's discrimination.

 

The US has a pretty bad track record of treating it's minority citizens with the love and equity due an American and a fellow human being. It was discrimination to make Rosa Parks sit in the back of the bus. It was discrimination to arrest her when she didn't. It was discrimination to not permit minorities to visit some stores, use some public parks and facilities and definitely discrimination to deny them services or employment based on that. And it's also becoming more an more a thing of the past.  Not saying it does not still happen but actual discrimination that hurts people physically or economically is rare.

 

Now as---les are as plentiful as mushrooms after a rain. They will piss you off, they will hurt your feelings, but unless they are actually depriving you of the freedom to practice your religion or access and enjoy the public spaces and services your taxes paid for, or not permit you to take advantage or hire services offered to the public they are not discriminating against you. They are just being an as---le.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Guard Dog

[Bartimaeus]

Some (allegedly, stories vary) yelled racial slurs at Manny Machado from the Fenway Park outfield stands this week. That isn't discrimination. That's someone being as as---le.

 

Isn't it arguably a bit of both? Unless the racial slurs were not actually based on his race...but if they were, obviously some sort of discrimination between his race and others is being made (which is where the original meaning of the word "discrimination" comes from), which is motivating those specific slurs, right?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[mnogochlen]

So much racist lie detected. 

 

1.) Europeans alwais consider Slavs as not white people. (Other example "non-white subhumans" from Europe are Irish people). Slavic slavery is not same thing as white slavery... and Europeans alwais fight against Slavs as you know ( popular Dracula is exelent example of such anti-Slavic propaganda ).

 

2.) Europeans begin fight against slavery only because exploitation of workers become more profitable than exploitation of slaves (all these WASP complains about lazy slaves).

 

3.) etc anti-black propaganda, just because poor opressed Afroamericans have more reason to rebell against WASP elites, than anyone else in the first world.

 

After win in Cold war and dissolving of Soviet block Capitalistic eltes have no reason to stay polite with poor people - full restoration of fascism and racism is expected, actually this process begin everywhere how as you can see this  in US and EU... and in this forum also. 

[Guard Dog]

 

Some (allegedly, stories vary) yelled racial slurs at Manny Machado from the Fenway Park outfield stands this week. That isn't discrimination. That's someone being as as---le.

 

Isn't it arguably a bit of both? Unless the racial slurs were not actually based on his race...but if they were, obviously some sort of discrimination between his race and others is being made (which is where the original meaning of the word "discrimination" comes from), which is motivating those specific slurs, right?

 

It's more a term I'd associate with actually depriving someone of something they are entitled to simply because of a trait beyond their control. In other words looks/thoughts not behavior. If it extends the some jerk yelling words the term discrimination begins to lose it's teeth real quick. Like calling apolitical opponent a nazi. There actually is such a thing and it's not a good thing when it's meaning is diluted to extend meaning "everyone who disagrees with me".

 

Sticks an stones and all that.

[Valsuelm]

 

 Not to mention the oodles of things that aren't easily summed up in a sentence, or other things that could be that if mentioned would trigger some here on the most extreme level possible.

 

 

You keep using that word. I'm guessing this thread and the "White Supremacy" thread are some sort of attempt by you to "trigger" people, but that hasn't really happened. Most people are engaging in a rather calm and rational discussion about societal issues. So who is this really 'triggering'?

 

 

Try re-reading what you're quoting, because you're misinterpreting what you're reading as your 'guess' is way off.

 

Also, I think you should search the forums for how many times I've used the bolded word. You'll discover that your accusations are unfounded.

[Bartimaeus]

 

 

Some (allegedly, stories vary) yelled racial slurs at Manny Machado from the Fenway Park outfield stands this week. That isn't discrimination. That's someone being as as---le.

 

Isn't it arguably a bit of both? Unless the racial slurs were not actually based on his race...but if they were, obviously some sort of discrimination between his race and others is being made (which is where the original meaning of the word "discrimination" comes from), which is motivating those specific slurs, right?

 

It's more a term I'd associate with actually depriving someone of something they are entitled to simply because of a trait beyond their control. In other words looks/thoughts not behavior. If it extends the some jerk yelling words the term discrimination begins to lose it's teeth real quick. Like calling apolitical opponent a nazi. There actually is such a thing and it's not a good thing when it's meaning is diluted to extend meaning "everyone who disagrees with me".

 

Sticks an stones and all that.

 

 

Hmm. Going by the more literal and broader definition of "being able to discriminate a difference between different things", just noticing that someone is black or white would technically fall under that more broad definition, which obviously makes the word rather useless in a social context. On the other hand, going to specifically just "deprivation of something" feels too specific - I feel as though coming up with slurs specific to one's race should really be considered discrimination (in the negative sense) of some kind, but I'm not sure how you would come up with a definition of the word that isn't too broad to also cover other things to the point of absurdity. So, in your opinion, what would you call simple racial slurs - just racism?

[Bartimaeus]

The problem, as I see it, is that "discrimination" has a negative connotation, but the base word itself does not actually imply a negative usage. As such, when you get into discrimination meaning to simply treat someone else differently on the basis of some trait (which is more or less its most wide usage at this point), it starts to cover scenarios where it makes perfect sense to "discriminate" against or between people (for example, "discriminating" between pregnant and non-pregnant women, or recognizing the - positive - differences between different cultures, etc.). It's like we're at the point where we would call something discrimination ONLY if we mean it when we believe something to be unfair or otherwise negative...but that's not what the word literally means, which is where we run into a problem of its usage. This is probably why I don't really like to use the word at all to begin with, in favor of more specific alternatives...but unfortunately, there isn't always a more specific way of describing a situation.

 

We really should stop having words being co-opted - or, if they are co-opted, make sure it's a completely and totally different meaning instead of a relatively close meaning.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[redneckdevil]

Why not just be racial slurs (period, the end, nothing else). U can call someone cracker, whitey, wonderbread, etc and not be considered racist and all the negative consequences that come with it.

[Malcador]

It is common to label people saying epithets as being discrimination ? Sports fans is one group that doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt for anything, incidentally.

[Bartimaeus]

Well, ignoring the more formal definition of racism simply being "discriminating between races", I wouldn't say racial slurs are always racist...but it seems like they sometimes are, and for that specific scenario of racial slurs being hurled your way for no good reason and in an insulting fashion, it seems like it should qualify...but maybe it shouldn't. I'm not totally sure.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bartimaeus