Your favorite Party Comp

[Boeroer]

Why is the monk class boring to you?

[firkraag888]

Why is the monk class boring to you?

It probably goes back to my old pnp d&d days. That is when I fell in love with fantasy games and the core elements I like most are the traditional spellcasters, sword slingers ect.

 

Monk are to focused on unarmed combat. I no you can use weapons with them but they are optimally used unarmed. There magic abilities/ talents are quite dull imo and are focused on unarmed combat, eg torments reach, swift strikes ect....Compare a monks talents/ spells to a ciphers for example, they are so different in terms of versatility to suit situational awareness and they lack a level of excitement that you need to have fun with a class. I don't get a buzz on selecting a talent upon level up that enhances my punches and kicks.

 

Plus there is the whole stereotypical stigma attached to being a monk: eg wearing robes and sandals and punching and kicking people.

 

I play games like pillars for the opposite reasons of what a monk is. I find monks incredibly boring to play, even more then that: I can't stand them because they are so boring. Having a monk in my party seems to have the effect of dragging my entire team down for the enjoyment factor.

Edited September 30, 2017 by firkraag888

[Boeroer]

It's ok to find monks boring, but at the same time it is a very subjective and also irrational thing (as you say maybe imprinted because of D&D):

 

PoE monks are better with weapons than with fists.

Transcentend Suffering's ACC bonus doesn't work for Torment's Reach and also not for Force of Anguish.

Fists can't be enchanted with a lash or durgan steel (both important dps features).

They only do crush damage.

They are good starters and ok backup weapons and that's it.

Monks are better off with weapons.

 

PoE monks' abilites are among the most powerful and versatile (of all dedicated melee classes)

Their abilites are the most versatile and powerful of all melee focused classes if you ask me. And they work particularly better with weapons as I said above. There is no ability that only works with fists. So they are by no means focused on unarmed combat. The only thing is that the animations of Torment's Reach and Skyward kick look like fancy martial arts kicks.
Comparing ciphers with monks is like comparing fighters to wizards. Their basic roles are different.

If you compare a monk to a fighter you will see that the monk's abilites are a lot more versatile and also fun to use. His single target CCs are better and they are more plentiful (Force of Anguish, Stunning Blows, Enervating Blows, Skyward Kick), their damage both against single targets and AoE can be better than the fighter's (more speed via Swift Strikes, over 100% lash damage via Turning Wheel and Lightning Strikes as well as Blood Testament - and of course Torment's Reach), they can be build into great tanks as well (reflecting nealry all ranged attacks and also with powerful melee retaliation twists because of the lashes). Fighters have the advantage that their stuff works all the time without preconditions like having wounds - while the monk has a lot more potential.

 

PoE monks are not limited to light armor like robes

They suffer no special penalties from wearing heavy armor and there's also no lore that suggests that monks shouldn't wear it. The connection to D&D monks is understandable and I guess also intended (in order to get those players who loved the D&D monks), but if the player can detach himself from that image the PoE monk can be outfitted like any other melee frontliner. 

But they will always kick people, that's right.

 

The thing about monks is that you have to manage your wounds in order to use most of your abilites to their full potential (although there are some abilites like Stunning Blows and Skyward Kick that work on a per-encounter-basis instead of spending wounds).

This usually requires a high amount of maintenance if you want to play them effectively (at least with Torment's Reach and FOrce of Anguish).

This is the reason why I first was a bit overwhelmed by the monk when I started with this game (too much to do while I was still figuring out the game).  - but once you get the hang of it there is no melee class that is less boring in my opinion. But maybe we use "boring" in a different way here. I mean the mechanics - how you steer and play a monk - while I don't care about the "background" and lore of PoE monks (I just make my own).

 

While I think you on the other hand mean the whole "vibe" of the monk class (influenced by D&D monks) that doesn't appeal to you, because they seem to scream "asian martial artist" (which I can understand: fancy kung fu dragon style martial arts stuff and also anime and Bruce Lee and so on are totally lost on me).

 

Is that correct somehow?

Edited September 30, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

You enjoy playing with monks. I don't. Some people do some people don't. Who cares. I 100% 'don't agree with almost everything you have said there.

 

You have have completely turned a blind eye to my comparison of a monk to a cipher. I drew that comparison for the purposes of showing how bland and dull a monks abilities are to how exciting a ciphers can be and you dismissed it by saying they are so different. No sh$t. But they are still both classes to select in pillars.

 

Monks are centered around unarmed combat, what the hell are you talking about that they aren't. It's very plain to see that they have numerous talent selections upon level up that involve unarmed combat. Your saying you don't have to pick them or some of them can be used in conjunction with weapons. No Sh$t. But they still are centered on unarmed combat. There is monk specialist equiptment you get in the game that involves unarmed combat eg gloves, sandals, robes

 

I swear I have even seen you post in other threads that monks are better of fighting without weapons.

 

Below is a cut and paste from the most popular monk build " the juggernaut"

 

Weapons - Primarily you want to use your fists. They scale with level, they are fast speed, they do more damage than other fast speed weapons. You will want to have another damage type available, for this I like Spears. There are a few good spears, no one else ever uses them. The custom designed one Cladhaliath works well. Throw a lash and a Spirit Slayer on it and you'll be happy.

Edited September 30, 2017 by firkraag888

[Boeroer]

You enjoy playing with monks. I don't. Some people do some people don't.

Sure, that's no problem

 

I 100% 'don't agree with almost everything you have said there.

Well some of it is simple facts. You can agree or not, they stay true.

 

You have have completely turned a blind eye to my comparison of a monk to a cipher. I drew that comparison for the purposes of showing how bland and dull a monks abilities are to how exciting a ciphers can be and you dismissed it by saying they are so different.

I have not turned a blind eye on that. I adressed it by saying that they fulfill different roles. You could also compare a cipher to a wizard and say ciphers are boring because they have a smaller spell selection. I just wanted to compare two melee guys with each other. For example you said that you like barbs - but they have less active abilities. One could argue that this is more boring than a monk's broad variety of active abilites (I don't say that, I like barbs - but it's a valid argument). So that comparison would make sense to me when it comes to a discussion about boredom. I could totally understand one finds chanters boring - there are some mechanics in that class that can lead there. But why monks? It can't be their mechanics, that's what I'm saying.

 

No sh$t. But they are still both classes to select in pillars.

Yes. Pretty obviously. Still a comparison should make sense.

 

Monks are centered around unarmed combat, what the hell are you talking about that they aren't. It's very plain to see that they have numerous talent selections upon level up that involve unarmed combat

They are flavored with martial arts animations and unarmed combat. But that doesn't make them boring from a mechanics point of view. Because they are not bound to it.

Name one ability besides Transcendent Suffering (which you get for free) that only works unarmed or is mechanically "centered" around unarmed combat.

 

Your saying you don't have to pick them or some of them can be used in conjunction with weapons.

No, not some of them. All of them.

 

No Sh$t. But they still are centered on unarmed combat. There is monk specialist equiptment you get in the game that involves unarmed combat eg gloves, sandals, robes

There are only the Sandals of the Forgotten Friar that have anything to do with unarmed combat - and they are not monk-exclusive. Anybody can wear them and use them to boost fists' damage. They were interoduced in WMI because fists fall behind in the mid game and especially when you get Durgan Steel.

Blood Testament Gloves work with weapons.

There is no robe that has anything to do with unarmed combat. There are robes that have monkish lore and it's obvious that some monks in PoE like to wear them. And why not? Monks are associated with robes in a lot of cultures. That has nothing to do with unarmed combat though. It's also "canonical" to use quarterstaffs (See Greenstone Staff) or hatchets or clubs - if you want to stick to monks from our history - which you don't have to.

I still see no reason to think that PoE monks can't wear other stuff if you wish so and if you find your perceived classic monk outfit boring. Several npc monks in PoE are wearing Padded or Hide armor by the way (Ulmar, Eorn, Foreman Ismey, Grynde and so on) - not very kung-fu-like.

But just let's assume that most monks in PoE's lore fight unarmed and are wearing robes: why should you do the same if there's no reason other than self-restriction?

 

I swear I have even seen you post in other threads that monks are better of fighting without weapons.

If that was the case (can't remember, maybe you can find the quote) then it was either before WMI came out (no durgan steel nor immunities to crush) or I meant early to mid game. And even if I used to think that: I totally can change my mind when someone presents some good arguments and examples - or if the framework conditions change.

Like you also can: not long ago you said that barbs are useless and rogues are the most powerful class - while in this thread you paint a different picture. It's not a bad thing to be sensible.

 

I respect that you don't like monks - for whatever reason. I just wanted to understand why you find them boring. You pointed that out so much.

Especially because I consider them to be one of the least boring classes in PoE - due to the potentially high micromanagement and also the bigger versatility than other melee guys have. I asked you if you mean boring in a way that the whole "monk theme" is boring to you (and thus you don't even care for the mechanics becausethe class is spoiled for you). Because that I can understand.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Boeroer

[MasterCipher]

Monk

Paladin

Ranger

Chanter

Cipher

Priest

[firkraag888]

If you no your stuff trust me drop the priest. Not having a priest in your party is like playing on another difficulty level above path of the dammed.

 

If I play with a priest in my party in my latest playthrough by the time everyone hits about level 11 there is absolutely no challenge left in the game.

 

Supercharging your party with plus 30 acc and def every battle is ridiculous. Not to mention the other benefits priests can bring.

 

Don't get me wrong when I was a newb they where great. Now they just ruin my playing experience by making the game so easy.

[Blades of Vanatar]

If you no your stuff trust me drop the priest. Not having a priest in your party is like playing on another difficulty level above path of the dammed.

 

If I play with a priest in my party in my latest playthrough by the time everyone hits about level 11 there is absolutely no challenge left in the game.

 

Supercharging your party with plus 30 acc and def every battle is ridiculous. Not to mention the other benefits priests can bring.

 

Don't get me wrong when I was a newb they where great. Now they just ruin my playing experience by making the game so easy.

Couldn't agree more. I prefer non-optimized parties. Keeps the game challenging.

[Amare]

Oh man, Boeroer that Mr Fireball wizard build you mentioned earlier in the thread sounds amazing, i'm going to create it right now.

[firkraag888]

Just don't build a monk. As I proved with my above discussion with boerer they are far to boring to play

[sendart]

Just don't build a monk. As I proved with my above discussion with boerer they are far to boring to play

So how are you posting from bizarro world? Cause you didn't prove a single thing about monks and you really like spewing nonsense about winning arguments that you have clearly lost.

[esyvjrt]

Monks are the most fun class to play, you should go 6 monks: funx6

[Boeroer]

As I proved with my above discussion with boerer they are far to boring to play

ROFL - great one!

You're so funny sometimes.

 

Oh man, Boeroer that Mr Fireball wizard build you mentioned earlier in the thread sounds amazing, i'm going to create it right now.

 

I fear I'm repeating myself - but just for people who don't want to search in the tread: You have to siphon knowledge from Maerwald in order to get the sabre "Flames of Faîr Rhîan" from the Endless Paths. It has 3 Fireballs per rest. You can clone it later with the Helwax Mold in order to get another 3 or you take Bittercut which also has nice spellbindings. Add Taluntain's Staff which also has 3 Fballs. But before that pick up the Sun-Touched Mail of Hyan Rath (3 Sunbeams) and the Amulet of Summer Solstice (3 Sunbeams) - you will then have 9 Fballs and 6 Sunbeams. And so on. Simply use every spell binding gear with offensive spells you can find and choose the ones you like best (for example Swaddling Sheet instead of the Amulet oSS). But remember that spells don't work with Sneak Attack, only Deathblows. But the hit/crit conversion works and of course the high ACC is great. Also great of cause is to deliver one's own afflictions with Sunbeam or such spells. Spells like Minor Missiles or Overbearing Wave which do pierce, slash or crush damage will also trigger Deep Wounds. Besides the spells you can play him like a normal rogue. Maybe I should write a build description. I think this is the fourth or fifth time I write this down. But I'm sooo lazy atm when it comes to class builds... Edited October 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

What you didn't bite this time ?

 

I was expecting another 14 paragraph rant again.

 

Dam

[Boeroer]

Unlike you I'm unpredictable.

[firkraag888]

Don't worry. Ill get you again soon enough.

[Frog Man]

Surprised people are still humoring Firkraag. He’s pretty obviously trolling.

 

These forums have been a super fun community of people sharing knowledge and enjoying a game together. He trolls the forums by looking for fights. I recommend ignoring him - working great for me!

[Boeroer]

But he's so funny sometimes when he makes himself look like a five-year-old. How can you ignore that? It's like ignoring kitten pictures in the internetz.

[Archaven]

Chanter

Paladin

Wizard

Priest

Fighter

Druid

 

Chanter is so freaking awesome.

[Gnomic]

Chanter is so freaking awesome.

Chanter is freaking awesome.

 

What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else?

[Lampros]

 

Chanter is so freaking awesome.

Chanter is freaking awesome.

 

What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else?

 

 

Two Dragon Thrashed is really awesome

[Archaven]

 

Chanter is so freaking awesome.

Chanter is freaking awesome.

 

What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else?

 

 

I dont like 2 characters having the same role. My next character.. i can't decide whether it should be a barbarian or a monk? I saw most of the abilities are only 1/encounter. Hmm still wondering why people like them so much.

[Lampros]

 

 

Chanter is so freaking awesome.

Chanter is freaking awesome.

 

What if you had TWO Chanters? Would it be better to have both of them singing Dragon Thrashed, or better to have one sing Dragon Thrashed while the other sang something else?

 

 

I dont like 2 characters having the same role. My next character.. i can't decide whether it should be a barbarian or a monk? I saw most of the abilities are only 1/encounter. Hmm still wondering why people like them so much.

 

 

Yes, for immersion purpose, I empathize. But certain "duo" class set ups are powerful and micro-light (e.g. two Chanters or two Paladins), so newbs like me tend to rely on them at least for now.

[Boeroer]

Barbarian has Carnage which turns every auto attack into an AoE attack. Barbaric Blow is not superpowerful but can be good with dual weapons and a high crit rate. Heart of Fury is only 1/encounter because usually everyone is dead when you use it properly. It's that powerful. Besides that most weapon effects (draining, stunning, wounding, spell chances and so on) work with carnage - so you maybe can imagine why people like them. They are also the class that can achieve very high attack speed very early.

 

Monks have some abilities that are 1/encounter, but their other abilites (the most powerful ones) are not limited in use as long as you gain wounds. They have an AoE attack that is very powerful and as long as they have wounds to spend they can wipe the floor with whole groups of enemies. And when they don't have wounds you can use the per-encounter-abilites.

 

Both classes have high endurance and very big health pools - so you can afford to do a very offensive build without the fear that they will go k.o. all the time (might take some levels to build enough health so that the difference to other classes is visible).

 

If you are a beginner with both of them I would recommend a stout barb with good MIG, CON and INT, Veteran's Recovery and Savage Defiance, wielding a great sword (aim for Tidefall) and wearing thick armor. Take Frenzy, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. This requires low micro compared to a more squishy barb or a monk. A monk requires a lot of resource management but is more powerful if you do it right (just my opinion).

Edited October 2, 2017 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

If you are a beginner with both of them I would recommend a stout barb with good MIG, CON and INT, Veteran's Recovery and Savage Defiance, wielding a great sword (aim for Tidefall) and wearing thick armor. Take Frenzy, Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. This requires low micro compared to a more squishy barb or a monk. A monk requires a lot of resource management but is more powerful if you do it right (just my opinion).

I am actually using a very similar barb with that kind of stat spread in my current playthrough. She's not fixed on weapon configuration though - dual wield at start, weapon and shield when things get rough, 2H when forgemasters is accessible. The survivability of Mig, Con, Int and Vet Recovery is just so good for early game. I also tried that configuration for a Monk in my previous playthrough works very well in contributing to her solid staying power.

Edited October 3, 2017 by mosspit