Are daggers the best weapons for dw rogue? how to duplicate Draw in Spring?

[firkraag888]

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions.

I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this.

BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%).

With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER.

Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too.

If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage.

But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Just opened up another playthrough and checked drawn in spring. Wounding defeintely is not stacking.

 

Combat log just shows the timer counting down and then getting topped up again with every strike. Eg

 

Drawn is spring 3.4sec

 

And then when you hit

 

Drawn in spring 5sec

[Kaylon]

 

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions.

I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this.

BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%).

With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER.

Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too.

If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage.

But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Just opened up another playthrough and checked drawn in spring. Wounding defeintely is not stacking.

 

Combat log just shows the timer counting down and then getting topped up again with every strike. Eg

 

Drawn is spring 3.4sec

 

And then when you hit

 

Drawn in spring 5sec

 

You should check the total damage done. You hit twice one of your companions and you check the health lost. If the health lost is equal to the damage from the logs then the wounding stacks.

[Boeroer]

 

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions.

I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this.

BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%).

With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER.

Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too.

If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage.

But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Just opened up another playthrough and checked drawn in spring. Wounding defeintely is not stacking.

 

Combat log just shows the timer counting down and then getting topped up again with every strike. Eg

 

Drawn is spring 3.4sec

 

And then when you hit

 

Drawn in spring 5sec

What Kaylon said.

 

I already said that there is the possibility that the UI is not correctly displaying it. Sadly, the UI and also the combat log are not very reliable. When Disorienting was still stacking back in the days it also only showed up once in the enemies' mouseover-tooltips and the duration got prolonged - but the defenses dropped down to zero after some quick hits because it stacked "under the hood".

 

Same with Dragon Thrashed or Come Sweet Winds for example. Also stacks but it's not displayed by the UI.

 

I guess there is not more than one instance shown because it would clutter the UI if there were like 10 parallel lines of "wounding x sec" or "Drawn in Spring x sec". But that's only a guess.

 

So that the duration only gets refreshed in the UI doesn't necessarily mean that wounding doesn't stack. You will have to check the health damage done like Kaylon said to be 100% sure about this.

Another first hint (but also unrealiable) are the red numbers that pop out of enemie's heads.

 

But maybe it got nerfed. I didn't check myself since 3.04. That would be a heavy blow to all wounding weapons for sure. Maybe I'll do a quick test myself if I find some time to load up Pillars today.

 

@Kaylon: (offtopic) oh crap - sorry that I forgot to test the Fenwalker + Suntouched Mail question. Totally forgot about that.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

 

 

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions.

I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this.

BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%).

With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER.

Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too.

If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage.

But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Just opened up another playthrough and checked drawn in spring. Wounding defeintely is not stacking.

 

Combat log just shows the timer counting down and then getting topped up again with every strike. Eg

 

Drawn is spring 3.4sec

 

And then when you hit

 

Drawn in spring 5sec

 

You should check the total damage done. You hit twice one of your companions and you check the health lost. If the health lost is equal to the damage from the logs then the wounding stacks.

 

just checked as far as I can tell it is not stacking.

 

Its also very hard to tell hitting a companion because your companions health resets so quick.

 

It also shows it very plainly in the combat log that it is not stacking (when in combat vs enemies)

 

it would not reset the timer of the previous wound if not the case.

Edited March 23, 2017 by firkraag888

[Kaylon]

When you hit a companion only the endurance is restored, not his health. If you check the health at the beginning and at the end it's possible to tell the exact damage dealt and compare it to the total damage from the logs (including wounds)...

Edited March 23, 2017 by Kaylon

[firkraag888]

I'm pretty sure it's not stacking

 

I've seen tidefall on previous playthrough say

 

Tidefall 2.4 sec

Tidefall 1.6 sec

Tidefall 0.8 sec

 

 

It is not doing that this time (with drawn in spring anyway)

 

Each attack with the dagger is just resetting the countdown timer

 

I'm certain it is not stacking

Edited March 23, 2017 by firkraag888

[Boeroer]

It always looked like this. You have to look at the health (!) loss, not endurance. As you said, this regenerates too quickly. Health doesn't and gets reduced by the same amount as endurance when you get hit. Look at health (not endurance), hit twice with Tidefall, wait a few seconds and then look what's left of health.

[firkraag888]

It always looked like this. You have to look at the health (!) loss, not endurance. As you said, this regenerates too quickly. Health doesn't and gets reduced by the same amount as endurance when you get hit. Look at health (not endurance), hit twice with Tidefall, wait a few seconds and then look what's left of health.

It hasn't always looked like this. Like I said I've seen tidefall wounding affect displayed numerous times in the combat log. It is not doing that anymore

[Boeroer]

Well - I guess I'll just do the health test myself when I'm at home...

 

Would be a pity if it was nerfed.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Concerning multiple wounding entries in the past:

 

 

This is 3.02. You can see that there is only one entry of Drawn in Spring all the time. At this point wounding stacked. So I assume it still does.

 

Edit: v. 2.03 (same):

 

 

Maybe my brain is not swiss cheese after all and I rembered correctly that there only was a single wounding entry since I started to play PoE.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Boeroer

[firkraag888]

can you check with tidefall to see if it does the same in the combat log??

 

I just checked all my saves I must have sold it to a vendor so I can t do it.

 

I

[firkraag888]

I just checked my combat log.

 

The wounding is doing nearly as much damage as the original strike how is that possible?

 

it says

 

hit durance for 4.7 slash damage +2.6 corrode

 

affect durance with drawn in spring  7.1 raw damage over 6.3 sec

 

wtf??

[MaxQuest]

The wounding is doing nearly as much damage as the original strike how is that possible?

Wounding lash uses pre-DR damage. It takes 25% of it. And multiplies by (1 + mig_coefficient).

[Boeroer]

Exactly. That's why it's so good. With very high MIG and very low INT the DPS gain is awesome.

[firkraag888]

 

The wounding is doing nearly as much damage as the original strike how is that possible?

Wounding lash uses pre-DR damage. It takes 25% of it. And multiplies by (1 + mig_coefficient).

 

ahh I thought it did 25% of the after DR damage but that bypassed the DR. I hate the descriptions in this game for items so misleading.

 

Im still not convinced it stacks though. its pretty hard to tell if it does

[MaxQuest]

Im still not convinced it stacks though. its pretty hard to tell if it does

It still stacks in v3.05

You can test it in the following manner:

 

- A. hit an enemy once, and count the amount of ticks (red numbers over enemy heads; you can use fraps for that)

- B. hit an enemy twice (in quick succession), and count the amount of ticks

- make sure that in each case DoT had same duration. (easiest way just set your perception to 300+ via console)

- compare the amount of ticks in A and B. It will be B = 2 * A. So no ticks are lost, and it means wounding completely stacks.

[peddroelm]

here's how you can see concurrent DOT damage ticks by attaching 3rd party app for true combat log capability

 

[firkraag888]

This is a bit out of my league guys. I'm going to have to take your word for it.

 

Thanks anyway

[Boeroer]

Watching the health loss on one of your mates seems to be the most easiest way though.

[peddroelm]

Watching the health loss on one of your mates seems to be the most easiest way though.

Easy sure, but it only it gives you total damage.

 

But if for whatever reason you need to see each and every separate damage application amount (think something like blunderbuss + combusting wounds, etc .. ) ..

[Boeroer]

Sure, sure. But to test if wounding stacks it would be enough.

[firkraag888]

guys ive tried to confirm If wounding stacks with your methods.

 

It is pretty hard to do so tbh I cant tell the difference

[Boeroer]

Man, you are a hard nut I can tell you.

 

Why don't you just look at the lost health of a companion you hit? It's not that hard, really.