Tank role for ingame companions

[Jotun78]

Hello!

Started to play PoTD, and trying to assemble my party. Firstly, I have craeted a full custom party, but it's too easy. So I decide to take only the companions I can find in game.

My char is pike rogue. Eder is my main tank. But I need the second. Any advise? Kana or Pallegina?

(please sorry for bad English).

[Boeroer]

100% Kana. He can be skilled very defensively and will still do awesome damage via pure The Dragon Thrashed chant (it stacks).

Edited February 20, 2017 by Boeroer

[Jotun78]

Thank you 

 

To make the game more challenging, I try to rest as less as possible. (Beaten Icewind Dale 2 on hard with 2-3 rests in whole playthrough).

In PoE, it is not works because many things, but I go rest only when all spells and health are gone

 

Is it possible to speedup Kana chant? Which ones are useful?

My party: Eder, Me (pike / sometimes ranged), Kana (melee), Durance, Aloth.

Also, I'm choosing between Hiravias and Sagani. I think Hiravias is much more versatile and can do more damage. Sagani has free decoy Itamaak (very fragile, unfortunately).

[Boeroer]

Only use The Dragon Thrashed chant once you hit lvl 9. Nothing else. It's the most powerful thing you can do with Kana.

 

Before that use lvl 1 chants and summon the phantom. Later, when you feel the phantom dies too quickly, use the Killers Froze Stiff invocation instead until you reach lvl 9. Then never look back.

 

Kana's chants will automatically speed up every 4 levels. At level 16 the will be twice as fast as at lvl 1. Another reason why Dragon Thrashed is so powerful even at higher levels.

There's no other way to speed up his chants. You can reduce his recovery time after invocations with more DEX. But I wouldn't use invocations at all because it will pause the Dragon Thrashed chant - and you don't want that (except for reviving party members or something like that maybe).

 

I would choose Hiravias.

Kana will obliterate everything if the enemies have low reflex - and Hiravias has lots of spells to do this.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Boeroer

[rheingold]

2nd and 3rd Kana, chanters make the best tanks.

[stiven]

 

Hello!

Started to play PoTD, and trying to assemble my party. Firstly, I have craeted a full custom party, but it's too easy. So I decide to take only the companions I can find in game.

My char is pike rogue. Eder is my main tank. But I need the second. Any advise? Kana or Pallegina?

(please sorry for bad English).

 

I personally prefering Pallegina, because she has +3 dmg reduce aura, +15 hits into gaze, and very powerful heal, per encounter Lay of Hands, and on high levels - chain heal, and don't forget those +25 to all defs and mindcontrol-break by punching her comrades. Kana, IMO has his uses only for party with archers, for chanter +25% ranged attack speed. buff. Also try pick up ranger with bear and tank-ish pet feat + pala aura = 25+ DR for bear, so he becomes pretty good off-tank, and also dps from him and from ranger is considerable.

[Hynkel]

Pallegina's dps is underwhelming, that's why people tend to prefer Kana over her. Paladins need high might to do any damage and she doesn't have that. Plus you're stuck with flames of devotions, which is very good on a more dps-oriented paladin but feels like a waste on her.

 

That being said, if you're looking for a living wall she's amazing. Eder+Pallegina with the DR aura are extremely hard to kill ever on PoTD.

[stiven]

Any non-wizard/rogue dps is underwhelming on PoDT. And as far as dps goes - paladins is top single target boss dps (after rangers), thx to +20% dmg +acc from sworn enemy, and +10 acc from paladin flanking feat. Also if you will level Kana as dps then he would be a good tank. Problem with tanks on PoDT, that deflection isn't as relevant as Will or Reflex. Because your tank may have 200 deflection, but when he will get himself blinded/paralyzed/dazzled which will lower his deflection to to 0, - withou good DR and endurance your tank will die very fast. So your Kana may have 100+ deflection in top tier gear, but trust me, every single fight he will be a weak link in your tankwall. Also tanks shouldn't do dps anyway, they purpose is not to die on front line and let dps chars, do damage.

 

Also thx for Durance 9 DEX, Pallegina heal is pretty much the only source of reliable heal on PotD, while Durance is busy with buffs.

Any non-wizard/rogue dps is underwhelming on PoDT. And as far as dps goes - paladins is top single target boss dps (after rangers), thx to +20% dmg +acc from sworn enemy, and +10 acc from paladin flanking feat. Also if you will level Kana as dps then he would be a good tank. Problem with tanks on PoDT, that deflection isn't as relevant as Will or Reflex. Because your tank may have 200 deflection, but when he will get himself blinded/paralyzed/dazzled which will lower his deflection to to 0, - withou good DR and endurance your tank will die very fast. So your Kana may have 100+ deflection in top tier gear, but trust me, every single fight he will be a weak link in your tankwall. Also tanks shouldn't do dps anyway, they purpose is not to die on front line and let dps chars, do damage.

 

Also thx for Durance 9 DEX, Pallegina heal is pretty much the only source of reliable heal on PotD, while Durance is busy with buffs.

[Boeroer]

The rogue class is underwhelming per se. Especially on PoTD.

 

The good thing about chanters is that they can be skilled to be total tanks and still can deal a hell lot of damage via the Dragon Thrashed with no drawbacks. The dps from the chant is not dependent on DEX and recovery at all. So slowness is no problem at all. And they also keep singing while prone or withdrawn. To be honest such a chanter is one of the easiest ways to do PotD solo - so how can't he be great in a party, too?

 

Pallegina can be build into an excellent alpha striker while retaining a good amount of sturdyness (as all paladins). But unlike a chanter, she has to give away defensive capabilities in order to deal good damage. But Wrath of the Five Suns, combined with Pen. Shot & Ryona's Vambraces as well as Scion of Flame and Sworn Enemy is a great tool to take out nasty casters. And when you took Scion of Flame already you can also take Intense Flames for your FoD. It's true that Pallegina hasn't that much MIG, but the huge bonus the burning lashes give you make up for that.

I mean look at this: you FoD strikes will have the following lashes: 50% (FoD) + 25% (Intense Flames) + 25% (weapon lash) - all those get multiplied by 1.2 because of Scion of Flame. You will do 120% burning lashes with FoD. This is huge and WAY more powerful than Deathblows or even Backstab. Lash damage is calculated based on the actual damage roll you do, including things like Savage Attack, Two Handed Style, crit damage and whatnot, not only the weapon's base damage like Deathblows does. Thus, you will reach way higher numbers with Pallegina's FoD strikes that a rogue will with Deathblows. Sure, it's only 2 per encounter (sometimes 3 if you manage to attack from steath), but you can add Runner's Wounding Shot which works the same (80% raw damage lash, not mere weapon base damage bonus) and Wrath of the Five Suns. And suddenly all enemy casters are dead. Later she will do a lot of damage with SA even if her MIG is not that great. And once she delivered her FoDs, Wrath and Runner's Shot I can always switch to support and tanking mode with Outworn Buckler. 

That's why I nearly always build her as alpha striker offtank and not as a pure tank. But as I said: she then has to give away some defense. I found that Hours of St. Rumbalt is a great weapon for her. Firebrand is also nice in the early to mid stages of the game. Dual Wielding is also not bad for FoD, but since I also use Runner's Wounding Shot most of the time I go for 2H or guns + Quick Switch with her for her alphas.

 

That's the main reason I would always choose Kana as tank over Pallegina. 

 

If Pallegina is your only source of healing on PotD, you should consider to bring Hiravias. His healing spells (Nature's Vigor/Embrace, Moonwell) are like buffed versions of Constant/Vetereran's Recovery and can be cast on top of each others, making other healings obsolete most of the time. If you add Kana's Ancient Memory + Beloved Spirits and maybe Consecrated Ground you need no other source of healing. Maybe the chars die from low health, but not low endurance. I also like to add Veteran's Recovery on the chars which will get beaten frequently. Usually I never have to cast Lay on Hands or other single target healing spells in those "oh crap" situations because they seldomly happen.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[Hynkel]

Well, I did play Pallegina on PoTD and ended up using the re roll feature to remove everything dps-related except the +10 acc to companions.

 

The thing is, this DPS build is such a huge commitment, and you can't half-ass it or it will end up like crap. Since I played MC rogue + priest buffs + sagani for flanking pet/DPS thanks to drawn in spring, a tank was much more useful to me than another single-target dps.

 

I especially don't like how this build relies on a couple of per encounter things you'd have to sit on until the mobs are wiped out somehow (at the cost of cool tanky things like righteous mind) ; though this probably shouldn't be an issue in a team with a lot of mass dps (something like barb+druid+dragon thrashed).

 

So it all comes down to team composition I guess.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Hynkel

[hibbidyjibbidy]

devil of croac, med armor, immune to dominate, can get that skill to teleport, high res. she was made to tank

use her with palligina for best effect

Edited February 26, 2017 by hibbidyjibbidy

[Hynkel]

Also another thing I think is worth pointing out : correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a player like Boeroer with a lot of gameplay experience and knowledge will have a plan for everything, making stuff like paladin raise, healing and charm resistance comparably less useful (especially since you can always use the right scroll or priest spell when you know what's coming).

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Hiravias is also very much worth considering as a tank. Give him big armor, a shield, and a hatchet and just park him in the center of the enemies and have him cast Returning Storm.

[Boeroer]

True. Once I have a priest I have zero use for things like Righteous Soul or Aegis of Loyalty.

And in my case an alpha-strike-skilled Pallegina is tanky enough even without defensive talents. I also don't use fighters as tanks: they only can tank then and nothing else while a chanter can tank nearly as well (he only has 5 less starting deflection) while dealing a shartload of damage just by standing around. Fighters on the other hand are very nice as disrupting units: sturdy even when skilled for DPS.

 

Anyway - if you want to combine high dps with good tankyness in one companion there's no one better than Kana in my opinion.

[Boeroer]

Hiravias is also very much worth considering as a tank. Give him big armor, a shield, and a hatchet and just park him in the center of the enemies and have him cast Returning Storm.

Yes - look at the Batsh!t Crazy build (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83775-class-build-batsht-crazy-disabling-druid-tank/).

It's tanky enough and a great walking CC effect with the storms. Once cast, Relentless Storm doesn't care about DEX and armor penalties. As long as you stand upright it will keep on cracking.

 

Those are the reasons I nearly never use pure "traditional" tanks like paladins or fighters. They are too limited and no fun.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[Crucis]

True. Once I have a priest I have zero use for things like Righteous Soul or Aegis of Loyalty.

And in my case an alpha-strike-skilled Pallegina is tanky enough even without defensive talents. I also don't use fighters as tanks: they only can tank then and nothing else while a chanter can tank nearly as well (he only has 5 less starting deflection) while dealing a shartload of damage just by standing around. Fighters on the other hand are very nice as disrupting units: sturdy even when skilled for DPS.

 

Anyway - if you want to combine high dps with good tankyness in one companion there's no one better than Kana in my opinion.

 

Honestly, I like having some duplication in healing and affliction removing spells/abilities, just in case one of the characters is knocked out, etc.  Besides, I find that AoL is a nice, easy to use ability that isn't limited in its uses, and obviously extremely useful when you're facing fampyrs.

[Crucis]

 

Hiravias is also very much worth considering as a tank. Give him big armor, a shield, and a hatchet and just park him in the center of the enemies and have him cast Returning Storm.

Yes - look at the Batsh!t Crazy build (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83775-class-build-batsht-crazy-disabling-druid-tank/).

It's tanky enough and a great walking CC effect with the storms. Once cast, Relentless Storm doesn't care about DEX and armor penalties. As long as you stand upright it will keep on cracking.

 

Those are the reasons I nearly never use pure "traditional" tanks like paladins or fighters. They are too limited and no fun.

 

 

Boeroer, I guess that think that different people will see it differently.  I really enjoy the simplicity of Fighters and to a lesser degree, paladins.  I've never played a pally PC, mostly because I like having Pallegina in the party so much and don't particularly like duplicating classes in my parties.

[Kaylon]

Kana is not a tank, he's just able to wear heavy armor and take defensive talents without hindering his chanting ability. The fact he can use summons to do the tanking for him is the main reason for his great survivability. He just starts with 25def, otherwise he's as squishy as a wizard or a rogue...   Also, compared to a real tank he has to max INT instead of other tanking stats like RES or CON.

[Boeroer]

As I said: best companion to combine tankyness with high damage. I didn't say he's the best tank overall.

By the way 25 starting deflection is pretty decent (paladins only 20, fighters 30) and with the two lvl 1 chants for boosting all defenses except deflection he starts as a better tank than a paladin. Summons on top of that. And later on the Dragon Thrashed is so good that it's OK to have a bit less defense than the perfect 100% tank who can do nothing else than survive.

 

Another nice example of a tank who can still deal good damage is a defensive monk. Way better than pure paladin and fighter tanks for party play in my opinion. Even a barb tank - or let's say meat shield - is better than that after some levels.

 

But sure: that's only my opinion and is based on the way I play the game. But since I find PotD to be quite easy while others struggle I guess it's not the most ineffective one.

I don't say that my way is the best way for everybody. Most likely not. But it doesn't hurt to hear different approaches I guess.

 

For solo play it's a bit different though. But even there said chanter rocks the house. Kaylon should know, he beat some WM II bounties solo on PotD with such a build.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

I made a party where 2 chanters with shield (and dragon trashed) were the only tanks, they had only 10 Res and 12 Con and were only supported in this task by a Wolf Pet.

 

To be honnest, you don't even need a REAL tank. Several "not too squishy" characters are better than a single uber tank.

 

Still, a paladin fills the "Tank and AoE DPS" about as well. Immolation does about half damages as Dragon Trashed, also heals your teamates. Their support abilities are great. They tank a bit better, and can deliver huge damage with Alpha and Beta Strikes. Pallegina is especially suited in this role due to Wrath of the Five Suns.

Auras, instant revive, lay on hand, coordinated attacks (especially when used with a marking weapon for an instant stacking Accuracy Bonus) are nothing to look down at. I think they gain as support what they loose as DPS.

 

The only difference is that 1 Paladin is enough for any party while several chanters stack better. 

 

I would take Kana and Pallegina over Eder. Eder has way too much defensive stats. Fighters never die anyway, even with 10Res/10Con...

In my experience, fighters are far more suited to take the offensive and smash priority targets while not caring about retaliations. Because, like the honey badger, Fighter doesn't care.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Elric Galad

[Stargazer55]

What even is a "real" tank? This is no MMO, there is no such thing as forcing enemies to attack a certain character ... and did I mention that it is no MMO?

 

I love characters that work like fighters/paladins/rangers in BG, i.e. tough combattants who protect casters while at the same time dishing out solid melee damage. The beautiful thing about PoE is that you are not limited to the above mentioned classes to fill that role. I love my sturdy melee druid to pieces (not calling her a tank though, as this is not WoW).

[Orannis]

i like to use Eder with the berath's blessing pet feat and Kana because holy crap he hurts people