PoE 2 - Character Race/Class/Stat Changes from PoE 1

[Falk Schütze]

Hello all,

 

I have played PoE 1 for ~200 hours and like to share my view on the existing race/class/stat system. I will only write about the things that I think should get an upgrade / downgrade. I have not played all classes, only mostly casters.

 

1. Races - PoE 1

- Human: Each subrace has the same racial trait.

- Subrace: Boreal Dwarf: The very large (5 levels or 15 perception points) accuracy bonus against two entire enemy categories is to powerful.

- Subrace: Pale Elf: The large Damage Reduction bonus against two common magic damage categories is to powerful.

- Godlike: The lost head slot is too much of a burden, especially at later levels. The race origin (Human, Aumaua, ...) has no effect on stats and traits.

- Godlike: Hair Color cannot be selected but choosing another race (E.g. Coastal Aumaua with bright red hair) before switching to godlike (E.g. Nature - Godlike) retains the respective hair color.

 

1. Races - Wishlist

- Human: Each subrace should get a different racial trait.

- Subrace: Boreal Dwarf: The accuracy bonus is moderately reduced.

- Subrace: Pale Elf: The magic Damage Reduction bonus is slightly reduced.

- Godlike: The lost head slot remains. The race origin (Human, Aumaua, ...) awards the respective stat bonus and traits of the race and subrace selected in addition to the Godlike stat bonus and trait to account for the lost head slot. Max level in PoE 2 is higher and powerful head slots are to be expected !

- Godlike: Hair Color can be selected, where it makes sense.

 

 

2.a Classes - PoE 1 - Chanter

- Chanter: Main stat is intelligence, yet few invocations actually use it E.g. summoning invocations.

- Chanter: Some stats E.g. Dexterity have no effect on chants unlike faster casting speed for other Mage classes.

- Chanter: Chanting is a modal ability thus wasting precious space in the Hotbar. Who would not chant?

- Chanter: Chanting and Invocations are combat only abilities. Chants cannot be used to produce helpful effects out of combat.

- Chanter: Powerful Chants take longer to chant but do not award more phrases to cast Invocations. Weak chants have to be chanted to cast powerful Invocations.

 

2.a Classes - Wishlist - Chanter

- Chanter: Main stat is intelligence and all invocations use it E.g. summoning invocations.

- Chanter: Dexterity speeds up chanting time much like faster casting speed for other Mage classes.

- Chanter: Chanting is permanent and not wasting precious space in the Hotbar.

- Chanter: Invocations are combat only abilities. Chants can be used to produce helpful effects out of combat.

- Chanter: Powerful Chants take longer to chant and award more phrases to cast Invocations. Weak chants can be chanted to cast powerful Invocations but take longer than using powerful chants.

 

 

2.b Classes - PoE 1 - Ranger

- Ranger: The animal Companion is lacking both in viability, AI and power and does only slightly add to the rangers overall performance.

- Ranger: The range of animal Companions is lacking as well, offering no powerful end game versions, E.g. drakes, raptors. The animal companion should be, after all, the main resource of the Ranger.

 

2.b Classes - Wishlist - Ranger

- Ranger: The animal Companion get a massive improvement in AI and power to make it feel like the rangers main asset. Each one gets several different special abilities per Encounter performed automatically or manually by the AI. The Animal Companions feels like having another Companion. The Rangers combat power is actually reduced as to not make this combination overpowered. Animal Companions make 50% of the rangers overall performance.

- Ranger: The range of animal Companions gets increased with fliers, magic damage (poison, cold, ...) and ranged animals. Each one has different special abilities and there are also powerful end game 'animals', E.g. drakes, raptors obtainable through optional level-up trait selection, replacing the current one. There could be in game quests that unlock these additional companion choices for level-up.

 

 

2.c Classes - PoE 1 - Druid

- Druid: The shapeshift is a - one per encounter - short duration - melee form.

 

2.c Classes - Wishlist - Druid

- Druid: Shapeshifting remains short duration. It can be done additional times per encounter and offers different forms for melee, ranger and magic (poison, cold ...) creatures. Level-up traits offer different forms and there are powerful end game forms. There could be in game quests that unlock these additional shapeshift choices for level-up.

 

 

2.d Classes - PoE 1 - Wizard

- Wizard: The Wizard is lacking any summoning spells. The best couse of action is to equip your wizard with a platemail :(

- Wizard: The Grimoire slot offers few to no diversity in spell power, storeable spell number and (stat) bonuses. It is only visible when not having an off-hand item equipped.

 

2.d Classes - Wishlist - Wizard

- Wizard: The Wizard many and also powerful end game summoning spells to keep enemies at bay.

- Wizard: The Grimoire slot offers much diversity in (depending on type of) spell power, plus storeable spell number and gets (stat) bonuses. It is viewed as an additional equipment slot but will only offer its (stat) bonuses when having an empty off-hand.

 

 

3. Stats - PoE 1

- any Stats, general: The bonus offered are to weak and make the stats choice less meaningful. Might stat is an exception.

- Might: Overpowered stat as it increases both any (melee, ranged, spell) offensive (damage) and any defensive (healing) abilities.

- Dexterity: Offers no additional but logic chance to hit.

- Intelligence: Offers no bonus spell damage, only duration and AoE.

- Perception / Resolve: Weak stats as the tiny (1 point) accuracy / deflection bonus is not meaningful enough.

 

3. Stats - Wishlist

- any Stats, general: The bonus offered for each stat are more meaningful and make different stat characters noticeable more diverse.

- Might: This stat only increases melee and ranged damage, but the bonus damage is higher.

- Dexterity: Offers one additional accuracy point per stat in addition to the current 3% all speed bonus.

- Intelligence: Offers bonus spell damage and Duration. The AoE bonus, any AoE bonus, is given to Resolve instead, making it more meaningful.

- Perception / Resolve: Perception gets another point of accuracy and twice the interrupt per stat. Resolve gets the AoE bonus from intelligence in addition to another point of deflection per stat.

[Leeuwenhart]

Wow...

 

Thats a lotta letters.

 

Will read later...

 

But at forst glance..

 

Human subraces will never get different RACIAL traits bz this game is coming from America and PC is a big thing there. Also

.. RACE is a big thing there.

So thats a toofer.

 

Its the kind of thing thats hard to do without stepping on toes... attached to loud mouths in media who are jusr WAITING for such a thing.

 

The rest ill read tonight

[Varana]

I seriously hope that not only "PC America" is finally getting over this nonsense of biological "race" in humans. Different colouring is more than enough uniqueness to "races".

[Fenixp]

I seriously hope that not only "PC America" is finally getting over this nonsense of biological "race" in humans. Different colouring is more than enough uniqueness to "races".

Well all other races in Pillars of Eternity do get subraces with distinct features. And you can absolutely do that stuff reasonably non-offensively - 

Nordlings - +cold resist

Orientals - +fire resist

Easteners - A++maths

Edited February 16, 2017 by Fenixp

[injurai]

I think might should continue to represent damage across the board. I think might serves well as a modifyier attribute, then you can pair it with other stats.

 

But if you aren't a primary damage dealer then you can cut back on might to improve defense or otherwise. Maybe healing shouldn't be tied to might though.

[injurai]

I do think Druid and Ranger could see some improvements. The druid form is the most underwhelming part of the druid, and the pet is the most underwhelming part of the ranger.

 

Like seriously Obsidian, spice those two aspects up a bit. Imo the druid form should be persistent and can be used as "prep" for an encounter. Or maybe it could be used outside of combat with empower. Then once it it, it has a long duration. Or is permanent until you take damage at which a timer starts.

 

I want to see more utility and abilities tied to the rangers pet. Maybe the pets could even give auras or buffs, it doesn't all have to be engagement based stuff like WoW is known for. Maybe a hawk pet could have an attack that is channeled as a damage over time. More pet would be nice too. I'd like to have quests in game where you could get rare pet's or something. Aquiring pets is one really good aspect in WoW. Though I think in PoE their are preset things to find in game and aren't something that you can fail at. But switching up pets would be a really nice addition. Instead of just setting it on character gen.

[Leeuwenhart]

 

I seriously hope that not only "PC America" is finally getting over this nonsense of biological "race" in humans. Different colouring is more than enough uniqueness to "races".

Well all other races in Pillars of Eternity do get subraces with distinct features. And you can absolutely do that stuff reasonably non-offensively -

Nordlings - +cold resist

Orientals - +fire resist

Easteners - A++maths

 

Dont know if serious and stupid or flippant and clever

[limaxophobiacq]

Hello all,

 

- Subrace: Boreal Dwarf: The very large (5 levels or 15 perception points) accuracy bonus against two entire enemy categories is to powerful.

- Subrace: Pale Elf: The large Damage Reduction bonus against two common magic damage categories is to powerful.

- Godlike: The lost head slot is too much of a burden, especially at later levels. The race origin (Human, Aumaua, ...) has no effect on stats and traits.

 

I did not feel like reading all of it but I'll just comment on this first bit.

 

Boreal Dwarf bonus isn't bad but except for a bounty or two none of the hardest encounters in the game are of either type. No way its to powerfull. I'd rather see the bonus changes back to being against beasts and wilder like it was originally supposed to be though.

 

Pale elf bonus is big but fire and cold damage are really not common enough for even double the current DR against them to be OP. Again how many difficult encounters does Frost/Fire DR actually make a big difference in? Not many.

 

I don't think goldlikes should get their drawback removed, its just that the Death and nature godlike abilties especially are far too weak.

 

IMO if any race should be changed it would be Wood Elf since their racial ability applies all the time and makes them the auto-pick for anything ranged which is kind of boring.

 

OTOH Mountain dwarves +20 vs. poison and disease is weak and very situational. The Coastal Aumaua +20 vs. stun and knockdown is way superior and since both have +2 might (and 20 Con never being a priority) there's never really a reason to make a Mountain Dwarf over a Coastal Aumaua.

Edited February 16, 2017 by limaxophobiacq

[benzeneboy]

Chanters main stat is intelligence be

 

 

1. Races - Wishlist

- Human: Each subrace should get a different racial trait.

- Subrace: Boreal Dwarf: The accuracy bonus is moderately reduced.

- Subrace: Pale Elf: The magic Damage Reduction bonus is slightly reduced.

- Godlike: The lost head slot remains. The race origin (Human, Aumaua, ...) awards the respective stat bonus and traits of the race and subrace selected in addition to the Godlike stat bonus and trait to account for the lost head slot. Max level in PoE 2 is higher and powerful head slots are to be expected !

- Godlike: Hair Color can be selected, where it makes sense.

 

 

2.a Classes - PoE 1 - Chanter

- Chanter: Main stat is intelligence, yet few invocations actually use it E.g. summoning invocations.

- Chanter: Some stats E.g. Dexterity have no effect on chants unlike faster casting speed for other Mage classes.

- Chanter: Chanting is a modal ability thus wasting precious space in the Hotbar. Who would not chant?

- Chanter: Chanting and Invocations are combat only abilities. Chants cannot be used to produce helpful effects out of combat.

- Chanter: Powerful Chants take longer to chant but do not award more phrases to cast Invocations. Weak chants have to be chanted to cast powerful Invocations.

 

2.a Classes - Wishlist - Chanter

- Chanter: Main stat is intelligence and all invocations use it E.g. summoning invocations.

- Chanter: Dexterity speeds up chanting time much like faster casting speed for other Mage classes.

- Chanter: Chanting is permanent and not wasting precious space in the Hotbar.

- Chanter: Invocations are combat only abilities. Chants can be used to produce helpful effects out of combat.

- Chanter: Powerful Chants take longer to chant and award more phrases to cast Invocations. Weak chants can be chanted to cast powerful Invocations but take longer than using powerful chants.

 

 

2.b Classes - PoE 1 - Ranger

- Ranger: The animal Companion is lacking both in viability, AI and power and does only slightly add to the rangers overall performance.

- Ranger: The range of animal Companions is lacking as well, offering no powerful end game versions, E.g. drakes, raptors. The animal companion should be, after all, the main resource of the Ranger.

 

2.b Classes - Wishlist - Ranger

- Ranger: The animal Companion get a massive improvement in AI and power to make it feel like the rangers main asset. Each one gets several different special abilities per Encounter performed automatically or manually by the AI. The Animal Companions feels like having another Companion. The Rangers combat power is actually reduced as to not make this combination overpowered. Animal Companions make 50% of the rangers overall performance.

- Ranger: The range of animal Companions gets increased with fliers, magic damage (poison, cold, ...) and ranged animals. Each one has different special abilities and there are also powerful end game 'animals', E.g. drakes, raptors obtainable through optional level-up trait selection, replacing the current one. There could be in game quests that unlock these additional companion choices for level-up.

 

 

2.c Classes - PoE 1 - Druid

- Druid: The shapeshift is a - one per encounter - short duration - melee form.

 

2.c Classes - Wishlist - Druid

- Druid: Shapeshifting remains short duration. It can be done additional times per encounter and offers different forms for melee, ranger and magic (poison, cold ...) creatures. Level-up traits offer different forms and there are powerful end game forms. There could be in game quests that unlock these additional shapeshift choices for level-up.

 

 

2.d Classes - PoE 1 - Wizard

- Wizard: The Wizard is lacking any summoning spells. The best couse of action is to equip your wizard with a platemail :(

- Wizard: The Grimoire slot offers few to no diversity in spell power, storeable spell number and (stat) bonuses. It is only visible when not having an off-hand item equipped.

 

2.d Classes - Wishlist - Wizard

- Wizard: The Wizard many and also powerful end game summoning spells to keep enemies at bay.

- Wizard: The Grimoire slot offers much diversity in (depending on type of) spell power, plus storeable spell number and gets (stat) bonuses. It is viewed as an additional equipment slot but will only offer its (stat) bonuses when having an empty off-hand.

 

 

3. Stats - PoE 1

- any Stats, general: The bonus offered are to weak and make the stats choice less meaningful. Might stat is an exception.

- Might: Overpowered stat as it increases both any (melee, ranged, spell) offensive (damage) and any defensive (healing) abilities.

- Dexterity: Offers no additional but logic chance to hit.

- Intelligence: Offers no bonus spell damage, only duration and AoE.

- Perception / Resolve: Weak stats as the tiny (1 point) accuracy / deflection bonus is not meaningful enough.

 

3. Stats - Wishlist

- any Stats, general: The bonus offered for each stat are more meaningful and make different stat characters noticeable more diverse.

- Might: This stat only increases melee and ranged damage, but the bonus damage is higher.

- Dexterity: Offers one additional accuracy point per stat in addition to the current 3% all speed bonus.

- Intelligence: Offers bonus spell damage and Duration. The AoE bonus, any AoE bonus, is given to Resolve instead, making it more meaningful.

- Perception / Resolve: Perception gets another point of accuracy and twice the interrupt per stat. Resolve gets the AoE bonus from intelligence in addition to another point of deflection per stat.

 

Intelligence is a main Chanter stat because it affects the chant area.  A small chant radius means the chanter has to stay in the fray to be useful.  Ring of overseeing is very helpful for this class because it boosts chant radius as well. Intelligence also affects the duration of chant buffs/debuffs after the chanter finishes the phrase.  Chanters are not broken. 

 

Summoning spells are very powerful, so they restricted them to a timer, i.e. Chanter phrases.  Wizards/Druids/Priests have no summoning spells because summons have been proven to completely break game balance when you can spam them - play any infinity engine game for proof.  100 charges on a wand of summon monsters is pretty much all you need to get you to Chapter 6 in BG1.  You can use the talismans/tokens in PoE for a similar, per rest, boost if you are clever about it.  

 

The druid spirit form and ranger pet are underwhelming, but I don't think they need much of a boost.  They need to be stronger in the early game, but are fine later on IMHO.

 

I think they ought to put healing on Resolve, as many builds dump that stat.  Res and Per were stronger before v3.0 (2.0?), and I agree that they should make them more valuable mechanically in PoE2

[Heijoushin]

Boreal Dwarves and Pale Elves' bonuses are so situational that I think they hardly deserve a nerf. If you're only going to excel only a small percent of the time, you might as well excel well, you know what I mean?

To be honest, all of the racial bonuses feel kinda "meh" to me (Godlike in particular). I think this was done purposely so that not every caster/fighter would be a certain race (as is so often the case in traditional DnD based games). Remember that one of their design goals was to have no trap builds. Likewise, this is why stats don't make huge differences.

 

The wizard lacks summoning so that the chanter can get a niche. (I don't like it either, but I get it)

The grimoire problem has been pointed out before and hopefully they'll do something with it in PoE2.

[rjshae]

Wow...

 

Thats a lotta letters.

 

Will read later...

 

But at forst glance..

 

Human subraces will never get different RACIAL traits bz this game is coming from America and PC is a big thing there. Also

.. RACE is a big thing there.

So thats a toofer.

 

Its the kind of thing thats hard to do without stepping on toes... attached to loud mouths in media who are jusr WAITING for such a thing.

 

The rest ill read tonight

 

I don't see this as an issue. This is a fantasy setting and the human races can vary for all sorts of reasons. The Elder Scrolls series certainly did it and nobody in the US went bat-sh*t crazy over the modifiers. It would be more of a problem for a game representing historical fiction or a realistic future setting.

[Leeuwenhart]

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't.

 

I am not saying its a dumb idea.

I like more options.

 

But it's unrealistic in a society like that.

[Leeuwenhart]

Also google Elders Scrolls racism or Redguard racist

 

 

Bz Nord High Rock Imperials all white guys.

 

 

Its always there. Its spoonfed for a lifetime.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Leeuwenhart

[Valmy]

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't.

 

I am not saying its a dumb idea.

I like more options.

 

But it's unrealistic in a society like that.

 

Heck they got in trouble for some random backer poem that 0.01% of the players ever saw when PoE 1 got released. Best not to risk it.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Valmy

[tinysalamander]

If that’s a real problem you could, technically, create a few different human abilities (call it “training”) and allow humans to choose. Specify that in this region they favor this training, and in that one – another, etc.

[Leeuwenhart]

You mean like talents? Haha

[tinysalamander]

You mean like talents? Haha

 

Yep

[DigitalCrack]

If that’s a real problem you could, technically, create a few different human abilities (call it “training”) and allow humans to choose. Specify that in this region they favor this training, and in that one – another, etc.

honestly having different bonuses for each human sub race simply would reflect a difference in the environment they were born and raised in not a reflection of them being biologically advantaged based on skin... seriously cant believe human sub race bonuses in a fantasy game is even a race issue for some people...

[Leeuwenhart]

 

If that’s a real problem you could, technically, create a few different human abilities (call it “training”) and allow humans to choose. Specify that in this region they favor this training, and in that one – another, etc.

honestly having different bonuses for each human sub race simply would reflect a difference in the environment they were born and raised in not a reflection of them being biologically advantaged based on skin... seriously cant believe human sub race bonuses in a fantasy game is even a race issue for some people...

EVERYTHING is a race issue for some people.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Leeuwenhart