The Dwarven Companion Recovery Front

[molotov.]

Dwarves are almost one place where I'm happy to see a stereotype. Give me a mead-swilling, axe-crazy man's man dwarf.

 

Sagani felt like... I don't know, like an elven ranger trapped in a dwarf's body. Like they wrote her to subvert all dwarf tropes.

And they failed miserable...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Disappointing, I was hoping for the 8th companion to be a dwarf too.

Has been too damn long since a CRPG had the stereotypical axe-wielding dwarven companion a la Korgan Bloodaxe. At least not in any CRPG I played in recent years, of which there weren't that many anyway.

DAO had one, but that game is not particularly good.

 

No, this cannot stand!  I will not let it stand!  Take up your axes my brethren, we cannot let this insult to dwarvenkind rest!  We shall storm the Obsidian offices and make them pay in blood!  Once we are done, they shall be digging holes!

I'm down.

[Messier-31]

This is the Dwarven Companion Whatever Front.

 

PoE really suffered from the lack of a good dwarf - yes Sagani you were boring...-, give us anything good, even a cliché funny drunk dwarf would be good.

 

Dwarves are almost one place where I'm happy to see a stereotype. Give me a mead-swilling, axe-crazy man's man dwarf.

 

Sagani felt like... I don't know, like an elven ranger trapped in a dwarf's body. Like they wrote her to subvert all dwarf tropes.

 

I agree with you guys. Sagani was a character that feels being different for the sake of being different. "I have an idea" said the developer "let us create a dwarven companion that will be, like 101% everything else than everybody expects". She was kinda okay, but in my case I have her in my party only for her quest, so I can dump her later.

 

Also, I like cliché dwarves and elves. They have this fantasy origin feel about them. And yes, scottish accents for dwarves and sophisticated voices for the elves make my day. They do not have to be mellow, because it's the writing that makes a character interesting, not their unique race/class combination. Great backstory with an intersting questline, banters, and so on. Not just being different by brute force.

 

That's why I have so much hopes for Bonteru - dwarven rogue that loves poisons is much more appealing to me than a dwarven hunter mom globetrotter. Even if he's just a sidekick and not a full companion, I choose Bonteru's concept anytime.

 

 

Word.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Messier-31

[Androoh]

I liked Sagani.

I also didn't find the whole 'different for sake of different' criticism of her was done too heavily handed. 

Not every NPC in my mind has to be larger than life and slightly overly exaggerated in their personality, à la Durance.

I liked that Sagani was this no-nonsense, sane and low-key hunter on a mission, much as I liked Edér being a straight-forward, down to earth and normal dude. 

Some people find these types of characters boring, I say there's room for all types. 

Plus, the lore sets out that dwarves are explorers, so Sagani being a ranger isn't that much of a stretch in my mind.

Personally... I'd like to see another dwarf who is slightly different or at least has some extra depth or dimension to them assuming they fit the stereotypical mould of drunk, axe-wielding warrior with Scottish accent.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Androoh

[JerekKruger]

Plus, the lore sets out that dwarves are explorers, so Sagani being a ranger isn't that much of a stretch in my mind.

 

Actually it's Mountain Dwarfs that are explorers, not Boreal* Dwarfs.

 

*On a side note, isn't the homeland of the Boreal Dwarfs in the south? As such they are rather misnamed. They should be Austalian Dwarfs.

[Blarghagh]

Before PoE came out, I originally misread Boreal as Arboreal and spent until the game came out thinking Sagani was a tree-dweller. Talk about the anti-dwarf.

[Messier-31]

*On a side note, isn't the homeland of the Boreal Dwarfs in the south? As such they are rather misnamed. They should be Austalian Dwarfs.

 

Yes, I even made a thread about this way back:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65019-possible-inconsistencies/?do=findComment&comment=1411808

 

Good to know I'm not the only one here!

 

 

Before PoE came out, I originally misread Boreal as Arboreal and spent until the game came out thinking Sagani was a tree-dweller. Talk about the anti-dwarf.

 

PS. TrueNeutral, your tree dwarf assumption is also there, lol.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Messier-31

[JerekKruger]

Yes, I even made a thread about this way back:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65019-possible-inconsistencies/?do=findComment&comment=1411808

 

Good to know I'm not the only one here!

 

I guess boreal has come to mean a cold region, but I still kinda like the idea of having called the "Australian Dwarfs". Bonus points if Sagani had been armed with a unique dagger called "A Knife", had a hat with corks dangling from it and called everyone "bogans".

[Messier-31]

"A Knife"

 

You mean "a knoif".

[JerekKruger]

You mean "a knoif".

 

That reads closer to South African to me, though I guess South Africans are Australian Africans so that's okay with me 

[FlintlockJazz]

Maybe the White that Wends isn't actually the south pole but is really the north pole and we just got the world upside down because the magnetic poles are reversed?

[Androoh]

 

Plus, the lore sets out that dwarves are explorers, so Sagani being a ranger isn't that much of a stretch in my mind.

 

Actually it's Mountain Dwarfs that are explorers, not Boreal* Dwarfs.

 

*On a side note, isn't the homeland of the Boreal Dwarfs in the south? As such they are rather misnamed. They should be Austalian Dwarfs.

 

From http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Dwarf

 

Like their northern cousins, Enutanik share an instinctive drive to explore and cover long distances in spite of their small stature.

 

[JerekKruger]

Like their northern cousins, Enutanik share an instinctive drive to explore and cover long distances in spite of their small stature.

 

 

Huh, my bad.

[molotov.]

I liked Sagani.

 

I also didn't find the whole 'different for sake of different' criticism of her was done too heavily handed. 

Not every NPC in my mind has to be larger than life and slightly overly exaggerated in their personality, à la Durance.

 

I liked that Sagani was this no-nonsense, sane and low-key hunter on a mission, much as I liked Edér being a straight-forward, down to earth and normal dude. 

 

Some people find these types of characters boring, I say there's room for all types. 

 

Plus, the lore sets out that dwarves are explorers, so Sagani being a ranger isn't that much of a stretch in my mind.

 

Personally... I'd like to see another dwarf who is slightly different or at least has some extra depth or dimension to them assuming they fit the stereotypical mould of drunk, axe-wielding warrior with Scottish accent.

Sagani was a hunter from her village, not a ranger. In her entire dialogue she didn't said that she liked to explore, she said that it was her duty.

When you are exploring some place and stop to talk with Kana he will explain some of the lore to you and will, likely, say at the end "shall we investigate?", what Sagani does when you talk to her in a new place? Nothing.

I don't think that she liked to explore, she didn't show that in her dialogue and her personality was more of a "duty first" than anything else, she really liked her family and is afraid that they will forget - or already forgot - about her, in her dialogues she explain her entire village for you, but she says very little about her adventures, her mind is focused towards her mission and village. So... I really don't know where you got that from.

 

My problem with Sagani is that her personality was uninteresting, she basically only talked about her job and family and we already have more than half of the popullation of the real world to talk about that. I get why Obsidian thought it was a good idea, but it's not fun - well Josh appreciates that -, and in PoE1 we desperately need something fun, we live in a world where babies have no souls.

 

Edér isn't a normal dude, a normal dude don't have half of his charisma... I don't know where people get that from either.

Edited March 3, 2017 by molotov.

[Androoh]

Well, I say I like her.

Really though, I'm indifferent to her as a character. 

I agree on your observation that she's a duty first type character. That was my view of her too. 

The fact that she blended into the background didn't really irritate me. 

I don't need or want every NPC to be an all singing, all dancing extrovert with a turbulent or troubled back story.

It was refreshing to me that she didn't. 

It's all subjective though... Your view that she's uninteresting is equivalent to my indifference / lack of irritation about her.

 

 

[molotov.]

I don't need or want every NPC to be an all singing, all dancing extrovert with a turbulent or troubled back story.

Edér wasn't all singing, all dancing extrovert nor did he had a turbulent or troubled back story, he just had charisma.

 

Sagani didn't even had charisma, a door with a bow would be more interesting than her.

[Baltic]

Sagani has a huge problem in that her head is a different colour to the rest of her body and it's slightly disconcerting.

[JerekKruger]

Sagani has a huge problem in that her head is a different colour to the rest of her body and it's slightly disconcerting.

 

I guess that's because she has a unique face model, and the skin tone for that is different to the one they picked for the rest of her. That said, how often do you actually use her without armour? I can't imagine noticing the difference between her face and hands when she's wearing armour.

[injurai]

The problem with Sagani wasn't just that she was written intentionally to subvert every trope in the book. It was also that she was a lore dumped and the writting of her largely defined what Boreal Dwarves are. Which is essentially just an Inuit sort of culture. She was sent away on what is supposedly a special honor. But she's a mother and constantly sites how she misses her family. It's not just that she is seaking out an elder, but she is basically giving up her entire presence with her people and with her family. It's not even a collaborative effort to seek out these elders, who have been proven to have moved on and often don't remember a damn thing about their past life. Plus she looks like she's 20 when she's technically 60 some years old. She's a milquetoast character that they couldn't figure out whether she was supposed to be empowered, or a tragic character. She lacked autonomy because she was carrying out a ritualistic quest.

[blotter]

 

 

That said, how often do you actually use her without armour? I can't imagine noticing the difference between her face and hands when she's wearing armour.

 

If memory serves, her waist is bared in normal and fine hide armor, including the set she starts with, but the skin difference is really only noticeable from the inventory screen in my experience.

[Silent Winter]

 

I liked Sagani.

 

I also didn't find the whole 'different for sake of different' criticism of her was done too heavily handed. 

Not every NPC in my mind has to be larger than life and slightly overly exaggerated in their personality, à la Durance.

 

I liked that Sagani was this no-nonsense, sane and low-key hunter on a mission, much as I liked Edér being a straight-forward, down to earth and normal dude. 

 

Some people find these types of characters boring, I say there's room for all types. 

 

Plus, the lore sets out that dwarves are explorers, so Sagani being a ranger isn't that much of a stretch in my mind.

 

Personally... I'd like to see another dwarf who is slightly different or at least has some extra depth or dimension to them assuming they fit the stereotypical mould of drunk, axe-wielding warrior with Scottish accent.

Sagani was a hunter from her village, not a ranger. In her entire dialogue she didn't said that she liked to explore, she said that it was her duty.

When you are exploring some place and stop to talk with Kana he will explain some of the lore to you and will, likely, say at the end "shall we investigate?", what Sagani does when you talk to her in a new place? Nothing.

I don't think that she liked to explore, she didn't show that in her dialogue and her personality was more of a "duty first" than anything else, she really liked her family and is afraid that they will forget - or already forgot - about her, in her dialogues she explain her entire village for you, but she says very little about her adventures, her mind is focused towards her mission and village. So... I really don't know where you got that from.

Actually, she talks about how she enjoys going on the 'long hunt' and tracking for long periods of time with the animal companions (arctic foxes, of which Itumaak is her favourite as he doesn't back down from a challenge) - sounds like an explorer/ranger to me.

She shares the first cut of caribou with her sister-hunters, etc, but still looks forward to taking the (moose-)bacon home to the family.  Oh no, she has more than one drive.

Her view of her current quest changed as time went on - at first it was exciting and an honour, though she had some reservations about leaving the family for too long.  As time wore on, she lost confidence in the likelihood of completing her mission but continued on out of a sense of duty.  She worries about her family, her village and over what to do if/when meeting Persoq.  All of those things you can play on in conversation and influence how her quest ends up.

 

So...Sagani is interesting, at least to me.  And she's tough and loyal.  And I wanna pet Itumaak...

[molotov.]

Actually, she talks about how she enjoys going on the 'long hunt' and tracking for long periods of time with the animal companions (arctic foxes, of which Itumaak is her favourite as he doesn't back down from a challenge) - sounds like an explorer/ranger to me.

 

 

She shares the first cut of caribou with her sister-hunters, etc, but still looks forward to taking the (moose-)bacon home to the family.  Oh no, she has more than one drive.

Her view of her current quest changed as time went on - at first it was exciting and an honour, though she had some reservations about leaving the family for too long.  As time wore on, she lost confidence in the likelihood of completing her mission but continued on out of a sense of duty.  She worries about her family, her village and over what to do if/when meeting Persoq.  All of those things you can play on in conversation and influence how her quest ends up.

 

So...Sagani is interesting, at least to me.  And she's tough and loyal.  And I wanna pet Itumaak...

 

That sounds like a hunter to me...

[JerekKruger]

That sounds like a hunter to me...

 

What exactly is a ranger?

[molotov.]

 

That sounds like a hunter to me...

 

What exactly is a ranger?

 

You have to be more specific. Are you asking the difference between hunter and ranger as a noun or as a class in a RPG?

[Silent Winter]

 

 

That sounds like a hunter to me...

 

What exactly is a ranger?

 

You have to be more specific. Are you asking the difference between hunter and ranger as a noun or as a class in a RPG?

 

so we're into a semantic argument?

 

A ranger is a hunter who ranges far and wide in the wilderness - with added survival skills in general (so Sagani IS a ranger).  If you use a different definition to exclude her then that's your choice.  Are you thinking of 'Park Ranger'? or Aragorn?

Edit: Compare simple 'hunter' as one who goes into the forest out back and shoots rabbits / deer and is home before dark.

She's a ranger by RPG standards - and we're playing an RPG.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Silent Winter