Lots of changes in PoE 2- it's only natural, folks...

[IndiraLightfoot]

Over the last few days, I've been somewhat amazed by the sheer number of changes which are being done to Pillars of Eternity, not only in systems, but also for the UI and more or less everything. Some of them, I may not agree with, others leave me indifferent, but what I'm certain of is that I really admire this.

 

Moreover, I reckon it's quite natural.

It's easy to forget that Josh & Co devised Pillars of Eternity from scratch, as a CRPG system. Obviously inspired by all the classics, but it's still a new game.

As someone who's been playing D&D since the blue box, and then thoroughly enjoyed most of its reiterations, I can tell you. These changes happen for a reason, often associated with the new game having been played by thousands, and these peeps give feedback in various ways, and for the most part the resulting changes are carefully planned, necessary and quite good. It's also the matter of making the new system accommodate for future expansions of the concept. No, I don't mean that as in expansion pack for a computer game, but as in hotbeds for further growth of the game system and the game world created.

 

So, this deserves praise in its own right, as the long-term ambition of making a RPG legacy adapting to the grinding wheels of time, and to the inevitable wear and tear of endless play sessions.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited February 2, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[anameforobsidian]

I think like many changes, some are praiseworthy, some aren't.  I appreciate the bravery of making changes when it was driven by bravery, but I think they should have stuck to their guns a couple times (health especially).

 

Good Changes:

Focus on content as well as systems.

Focus on combat intelligibility.

New Loading systems.

Improved focus on factions.

Companion art style.

Splitting combat & non-combat skills.

Getting rid of fatigue.

Better companion plot-integration.

Xoti's Lantern shield.

Fidget animations.

Highlight text.

 

Wait and see changes:

5 party members, not my pick, but understandable.

Engagement as feat / weapon property.

Limited grimoires to encourage switching.

Multi-classing.

More VO, not a great pick.  Some people have asked for it, many pushed against it back in the day.  VO constrains writing.

The Empower system.

Proficiencies instead of focus groups (why not both?).

Slower combat.

 

Bad Changes:

Going back to one regenerating  health bar.  I don't think this change is great, health created a lot of interesting scenarios.  The falling grey line was especially cool.

Fewer companions.  Taking different companions increases replay.  It's understandable why they did it, but I disagree with their decision.  (Still gladly backing).

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

Wait and see changes:

 

Multi-classing.

 

 Unlike you, I saw that as an opportunity when I heard about it, and now, after having watched Josh's vid, I at least feel that we go from 11 to 55 classes in one fell swoop. Super-excited about this!

[Boeroer]

The only thing I really feel bad about is the health mechanic. I thought it was very nice and not too complicated as it was.

[MaxQuest]

Yeap. Excited about multi-classing as well. It increases the number of possible variants by a whole lot, which makes build tinkering deeper and more fun.

Not to mention the amount of subclass combinations.

[Quillon]

Wait and see changes:

More VO, not a great pick.  Some people have asked for it, many pushed against it back in the day.  VO constrains writing.

 

Bad Changes:

Fewer companions.  Taking different companions increases replay.  It's understandable why they did it, but I disagree with their decision.  (Still gladly backing).

 

More VO is good for consistency and as I understand it that's the goal. It was jarring how half of the lines in a conversation voiced and half hasn't. And "twice" doesn't mean all lines will be voiced so I don't think it'll be a constraint, in fact I hope it pushes writers to be more economic with the lore dumps.

 

Fewer Companions: [unpopular Opinion]I'd like it to be even less(4 in this case; party limit) but with returning companions who could also be dead before Deadfire, 7 is understandable :D I just don't like spare companions back at somewhere or missing out all the different reactions from them, the reactivity/replayability should come from their different reactions to PC's different choices, not from having them with us or not IMO. I could go on but its subjective and not too relevant here.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Quillon

[Gairnulf]

Over the last few days, I've been somewhat amazed by the sheer number of changes which are being done to Pillars of Eternity, not only in systems, but also for the UI and more or less everything. Some of them, I may not agree with, others leave me indifferent, but what I'm certain of is that I really admire this.

 

Moreover, I reckon it's quite natural.

It's easy to forget that Josh & Co devised Pillars of Eternity from scratch, as a CRPG system. Obviously inspired by all the classics, but it's still a new game.

As someone who's been playing D&D since the blue box, and then thoroughly enjoyed most of its reiterations, I can tell you. These changes happen for a reason, often associated with the new game having been played by thousands, and these peeps give feedback in various ways, and for the most part the resulting changes are carefully planned, necessary and quite good. It's also the matter of making the new system accommodate for future expansions of the concept. No, I don't mean that as in expansion pack for a computer game, but as in hotbeds for further growth of the game system and the game world created.

 

So, this deserves praise in its own right, as the long-term ambition of making a RPG legacy adapting to the grinding wheels of time, and to the inevitable wear and tear of endless play sessions.

 

Just my 2 cents.

The troll in me wants to say "Lots of change is only natural... given the state of PoE"

[rheingold]

Change is fine, if it's incremental. Otherwise you just end up with a completely new system with completely new problems. Doesn't make much sense to make major changes if you've created a system from scratch which does work - sure can be improved but at least there is a base to work with. Looks like there is a completely new system so back to square one....

So I'd prefer if they took the current system and worked with it rather than kinda throwing it out by making major changes.

That doesn't mean you can't have multi classing or other goodies, it just means a measure of restraint is called for.

[theBalthazar]

Limited grimoires to encourage switching.

 

 

We can't learn spells via others grimoires ?

[Osvir]

Bad Changes:

Going back to one regenerating health bar. I don't think this change is great, health created a lot of interesting scenarios. The falling grey line was especially cool.

Say whaaat? I really liked the Endurance/Health thing... Resting isn't out is it?

 

Or revised as well? (Did you mention it? This caught my eye and I skimmed the rest)

 

Edit: Speculative suggestion: Wands and staffs, being able to scribe one or two scrolls spells onto them... tattoos? (A substitute for a multi-classing Wizard? I.e. Wand & Shield, Dual-Wielding Wands, Two-Handed Staff etc.)

Edited February 3, 2017 by Osvir

[IndiraLightfoot]

@Osvir: Hold on to your hat, Osvir, 'cause you're in for a big juicy chunk of ch-ch-ch-changes...

 

[Youtube]

[Osvir]

I like most stuff that's new, but regenerating health? :/ I'd like to know "At what rate"

[Gromnir]

The only thing I really feel bad about is the health mechanic. I thought it was very nice and not too complicated as it was.

agreed.  is possible the reality o' new features and mechanics will disappoint, but thus far we have been happy with announced changes-- save one: unified health.  

 

is this the "winter of our discontent?"  we think not.  in short order we will  no doubt yield to our natural cynical bent.  am expecting increasing familiarity will build if not contempt, then, at the very least, a kinda jaundiced caution.  even so, at the moment, health is the only change which vexes us. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[anameforobsidian]

 

Limited grimoires to encourage switching.

 

 

We can't learn spells via others grimoires ?

 

 

Grimoire inscription is out.  The spells you learn via level up can be cast regardless of grimoire.  If you don't know a spell, you can cast it from a grimoire, but you can't learn it from one.  Additionally, some grimoires add bonuses to spell-casting.

 

 

Bad Changes:

Going back to one regenerating health bar. I don't think this change is great, health created a lot of interesting scenarios. The falling grey line was especially cool.

Say whaaat? I really liked the Endurance/Health thing... Resting isn't out is it?

 

Or revised as well? (Did you mention it? This caught my eye and I skimmed the rest)

 

Edit: Speculative suggestion: Wands and staffs, being able to scribe one or two scrolls onto them... tattoos? (A substitute for a multi-classing Wizard? I.e. Wand & Shield, Dual-Wielding Wands, Two-Handed Staff etc.)

 

 

Health is gone, it's just endurance now.  If you get knocked down you get a wound.  If you get four wounds, you die.

[Osvir]

Just read that in another thread, that sounds interesting...

 

But it's regenerating Endurance then? Can you get injuries during combat, or only when knocked out?

 

Edit: Would an injury cause Endurance drops/grey area? Or portrait graphics? (Doom Guy/Wolfenstein 3D)

Edited February 3, 2017 by Osvir

[anameforobsidian]

Injuries sounded like they were on knock out and from scripted events only.

[floyd ryan]

The only thing I really feel bad about is the health mechanic. I thought it was very nice and not too complicated as it was.

 

I agree with that. The health/endurance mechanic in PoE was a real improvement over the IE games. It created an incentive not to spam rest after each battle. Also camping supplies were great.