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Barbarians and carnage


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#1
ArnoldRimmer

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Please make carnage connected to some other stat like might or dexterity... it's amazing how many super intelligent barbarians there are in  the world - far too many



#2
MaxQuest

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Boeroer had a nice suggestion of making carnage resource based.
Damage dealt, damage taken and intellect could affect how much enraged a barbarian is. And the more his rage burns the bigger his carnage aoe gets.
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#3
Osvir

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I could see it working like Zul'Jin in Heroes of the Storm too. His "Attack Speed" goes faster and faster the lower his health is.

​What if Carnage AoE+Attack Speed would grow the more damage the Barbarian takes? Similar to Monk Wounds but, that could work really well in a Multi-Class Scenario :D

​Carnage+Wounds (Barbarian/Monk)

​EDIT: Forgot to say. What I've read from Obsidian, it seems combat is revised/re-worked. Meaning, abilities, attributes, stats, counters, might not function exactly the same in Deadfire as Pillars (Multi-Classing would require a lot of re-balancing). We'll have to wait and see really.

​EDIT: An example Table:

​Carnage:
​100% Health = +00% AS, +05% AoE
​080% Health = +05% AS, +10% AoE
​060% Health = +10% AS, +15% AoE
​040% Health = +15% AS, +20% AoE
​020% Health = +20% AS, +25% AoE

​Of course, more balanced and accurate percentage, I'm just projecting concepts~

​Monk gathers "points" to "spend" (a Resource) for "abilities" by taking "Wounds". The difference would be that "Wounds" is "Get dealt damage, use strong abilities" and "Carnage" would become "Get dealt damage, get stronger".


Edited by Osvir, 29 January 2017 - 08:02 AM.


#4
limaxophobiacq

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No. Attributes/talents/spells should do what they say they do and what they say should be clear. If intelligence still says it increases AoEs and durations it should affect everything with an AoE and/or Duration period.

 

I kind of hate this about Tyranny which does things like giving you 'spell power' without being clear with what spell power actually does, which is not as the name would imply increasing the power of all spells.


Edited by limaxophobiacq, 29 January 2017 - 07:08 AM.

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#5
Sonntam

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No. Attributes/talents/spells should do what they say they do and what they say should be clear. If intelligence still says it increases AoEs and durations it should affect everything with an AoE and/or Duration period.

 

I kind of hate this about Tyranny which does things like giving you 'spell power' without being clear with what spell power actually does, which is not as the name would imply increasing the power of all spells.

 

Tyranny explicitly tells you there is spell power and there is ability power. I think it would be nice if tutorial tips said that in RED AND IN CAPS, because I made the mistake of thinking it's one and the other. 

 

Otherwise it really comes down to labelling things properly and making more extensive tooltips to avoid scenarios like that one.



#6
Boeroer

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No. Attributes/talents/spells should do what they say they do and what they say should be clear. If intelligence still says it increases AoEs and durations it should affect everything with an AoE and/or Duration period.

I generally agree. But in this case I could live with it when the AoE and/or the ACC and/or the damage of Carnage and the power and duration of Frenzy would work like a resource based system (I also suggested that afflictions enrage the barb - just to make it different from monk's wound system ;)). It would not necessarily contradict the "INT influences AoE size" rule. Ha - they could make it even so that higher INT leads to less damage but bigger AoE. :)

A lot of people complain about carnage + INT leading to genius barbs. I don't (I like consistency), but I understand it.

Even now we have AoE effects and also durations that don't give a shart about your INT. For example summons' duration, AoE of sigils and traps (where it would totally make sense) and so on.

So I guess a resource based system for "rage" that influences carnage and frenzy would be an elegant way out of this dilemma.

Edited by Boeroer, 29 January 2017 - 07:44 AM.


#7
Quillon

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Don't mess with my carnage! or barbarian!



#8
Boeroer

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Barbs are my no. 1 class in PoE. Don't mess them up.

But I guess that a system that is a bit like monk's would make barbs even more interesting.

#9
Quillon

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Years ago I played Age of Conan, there were two stances for Barb, Blood Rage which heals the barb for a small amount every time it procs, and Reaver stance which increases weapon damage. Both stances caps at 10 or 15 procs depending on your feats. Tho the mechanics were action oriented(when you were inactive or unlucky for 10 secs or so you were losing the buff) I woudn't say no to some mechanics along those lines, a modal ability for sustained survivability and another for more damage. Just don't mess with the AoE hits.

 

Or some health tap mechanics, the longer barb stays in the fight the more he/she leeches endurance from enemies into his/her endurance pool...maybe.



#10
Gromnir

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barbarian is worst poe class from perspective o' matching espoused developer goals for the class.  no class defining attributes or abilities? barbarians is a nifty class with kewl powhaz, but from a design pov, it is a clear fail.  too dependent on carnage, which also is inextricable linked to intelligence. barbarian is the class which most clear fails to meet developer goals. 

 

keep the fun, but lose the broken arse mechanics.

 

oh, and developers should quit using "genius barbarian" as some kinda measure o' poe character customization success.  the ubiquitous smarty barbarians is an example o' the exact opposite o' the freedom to customize which exists in much o' poe.  if everybody is playing a smarty barbarian, then obsidian did something wrong. terrible example, so quit using it.

 

HA! Good Fun!



#11
limaxophobiacq

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No. Attributes/talents/spells should do what they say they do and what they say should be clear. If intelligence still says it increases AoEs and durations it should affect everything with an AoE and/or Duration period.

 

I kind of hate this about Tyranny which does things like giving you 'spell power' without being clear with what spell power actually does, which is not as the name would imply increasing the power of all spells.

 

Tyranny explicitly tells you there is spell power and there is ability power. 

 

Yes but it doesnt say what spell power does; increase spell damage and spell healing, not even when you hover over it. From just the name (which is all you get) you would assume it made spells more powerfull period but since a large number of spells do neither damage or healing it does not.


Edited by limaxophobiacq, 29 January 2017 - 08:50 AM.


#12
rheingold

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Just shift the carnage aoe to resolve rather than intelligence, that would be my suggestion. Makes more sense. Other than that don't change the class too much please.

Edited by rheingold, 29 January 2017 - 08:52 AM.


#13
anameforobsidian

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I still think Might and Intelligence should change places.  A mighty wizard would make fireballs that were huge.  An intelligent wizard could make a small fireball that targets someone directly in their kidneys.  Replace fireball with giant weapon vs. delicate sword and it works for fighters.


Edited by anameforobsidian, 29 January 2017 - 09:40 AM.





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