Politics 2016

[Gfted1]

Need more MiRV's. Too bad LGM-118 was deactivated.

[BruceVC]

 

Finally an alternative to UBI: slavery.

 

 

It's a good idea actually. We'll cut out gubbermint jobs and use the newly unemployed gubbermint workers to do the same thing but much cheaper, and hire out newly unemployed people to work for private firms to replace workers who may be asking for a raise, thus creating a steady supply of low-wage labor to circumvent the tyranny of minimum wage and worker's rights.

 

 

If you disagree with me you're an evil statist who hates freedom.

 

 

snip

 

Finally an alternative to UBI: slavery.

Sorry but I don't want to be an intern again.

 

Guys all 3 of you seem to understand the point of what those guys are alluding to in the post Baro made

 

So how do we go from a possible relaxation of the UBI to now thinking workers will be working like slaves ? Could one of you explain what you mean....or maybe you guys are just joking ?

[majestic]

It's a good idea actually. We'll cut out gubbermint jobs and use the newly unemployed gubbermint workers to do the same thing but much cheaper, and hire out newly unemployed people to work for private firms to replace workers who may be asking for a raise, thus creating a steady supply of low-wage labor to circumvent the tyranny of minimum wage and worker's rights.

 

If you disagree with me you're an evil statist who hates freedom.

It works for Germany. They came up with an awesome really German name for it too: Hartz IV (Schröder's "Agenda 2010").

 

The irony of it being introduced by a social democrats/green government knows barely any bounds. *laff*

 

Anyway Bruce, in case you really didn't get it and aren't trolling:

 

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I do see a way around this, just declare being unemployed as illegal with the punishment being indentured servitude or some such. Edited December 27, 2016 by majestic

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Anyway Bruce, in case you really didn't get it and aren't trolling:

 

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I do see a way around this, just declare being unemployed as illegal with the punishment being indentured servitude or some such.

 

I appreciate your feedback, you very consistent like that

 

I must have mentioned this on this forum about 10-15 times but people still question the veracity of my comments it appears, I dont troll in the sense you guys define trolling. If I ask a question about something I dont understand then I honestly dont understand the point people are making so thanks  again for your explanation 

 

But it still is confusing, why are we mentioning slavery? Slavery ended in the USA in the 1860's, are people suggesting because the UBI has been abandoned now workers will be treated like slaves ? The entire point makes no sense....so I must be missing sense 

[majestic]

It comes up in the middle of the tweets there when they start talking about a forced labor draft. That's when it turned to slavery and KP just picked it up and ran with it.

[BruceVC]

It comes up in the middle of the tweets there when they start talking about a forced labor draft. That's when it turned to slavery and KP just picked it up and ran with it.

Ah, okay now I get it

 

Obviously the guy isn't being serious so I assume KP and others were just joking

 

Anyway now it makes sense 

[ShadySands]

Bruce, check out a movie called the 13th

[Barothmuk]

Obviously the guy isn't being serious

Given your misunderstanding I don't think you're in a position to make that judgement.

[BruceVC]

Bruce, check out a movie called the 13th

Thx for the tip Shady, this is exactly the type of movie I enjoy

 

Earlier I was saying to Majestic how  sometimes not many people  on this forum after 5 years seem to understand how I post or think, I'm not really blaming anyone because as I realized several months ago I am not  actually a good forum person as I dont understand and don't really attempt to decipher most of the internet innuendo or forum vernacular many people use 

 

Yet you recommended a movie that is incredibly applicable ....especially today. How is this for coincidental, not even 4 hours  ago I was on  one of the radio talk shows talking to a awesome black women who is also a talk show host and TV presenter. Anyway she was talking about how in SA they are going to be legalizing weed and then we started talking about prisons in the USA and she was saying to me she wants to do a show about prisons and how unfair sentences in the USA lead to African Americans getting jail time for  very long periods of time

 

Anyway this video is exactly what we were talking about....isnt that bizaare. I will tell her about it and they can get it for the radio show 

 

Quick question, how did you know I would be interested in that particular video because we dont really discuss racism and my views on issues like jails in the USA?

 

 

 

 

Obviously the guy isn't being serious

Given your misunderstanding I don't think you're in a position to make that judgement.

 

Baro I know you appreciate constructive criticism but the issue here is not my question or statement  but rather how you guys sometimes unintentionally propagate and encourage the concept of " post truth  " ...in other words we make statements that are not based on fact but rather some  personal emotional issue with how workers are paid.....and then its slavery 

 

 

its not all the time but eventually we need to move to a point where if we going to say things that cannot be substantiated we rather not say them .....if we dont start getting into this habit we contribute towards misinformation and benightedness on the Internet 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Anyway she was talking about how in SA they are going to be legalizing weed and then we started talking about prisons in the USA and she was saying to me she wants to do a show about prisons and how unfair sentences in the USA lead to African Americans getting jail time for  very long periods of time

Yes, we need to make our prison system and the entire justice system more like South Africa. SA is really leading the future on the issue of crime.

[BruceVC]

 

Anyway she was talking about how in SA they are going to be legalizing weed and then we started talking about prisons in the USA and she was saying to me she wants to do a show about prisons and how unfair sentences in the USA lead to African Americans getting jail time for  very long periods of time

Yes, we need to make our prison system and the entire justice system more like South Africa. SA is really leading the future on the issue of crime.

 

WOD you cannot seriously believe it is acceptable to send people to jail for position of weed?

 

Thats the core point of this debate, in the USA the sentencing of people for weed was egregious and extreme. This has now been relaxed in most states so that is a good thing

 

 

You  dont want our prisons or degree of criminal activity ....you guys would think its a warzone. We have high levels of crime 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

[Hurlshort]

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

 

That is wrong, plenty of states will still send you to jail for possession. It has been changing slowly, but right now only 20 states have decriminalized possession. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics

 

Number of arrests in 2015 in the U.S. for drug law violations: 1,488,707

• Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 1,249,025 (84 percent)

[BruceVC]

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

No, me telling you what you should be doing has nothing to do with SA crime and courts

 

I know what you should be doing as its obvious and has already been implemented, no need to thank me for wanting to improve the USA. I am driven by altruistic and  constructive opinions on how to improve certain social dynamics in the USA  

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

 

That is wrong, plenty of states will still send you to jail for possession. It has been changing slowly, but right now only 20 states have decriminalized possession. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics

 

Number of arrests in 2015 in the U.S. for drug law violations: 1,488,707

• Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 1,249,025 (84 percent)

Just because you get arrested doesn't mean you're going to prison. Most of the cases in our courts are for marijuana possession, but they normally get community service, may be rehab, but not prison.

[Guard Dog]

Thomas Sowell has announced his retirement. I never miss his column and I have six of his books here on the shelf behind me. He has a brilliant mind and an understanding of history and economics most people will never be able to approach. I hope he has many years to enjoy his photography and pride in his fantastic career. 

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/27/farewell_132647.html

[Barothmuk]

Baro I know you appreciate constructive criticism but the issue here is not my question or statement  but rather how you guys sometimes unintentionally propagate and encourage the concept of " post truth  " ...in other words we make statements that are not based on fact but rather some  personal emotional issue with how workers are paid.....and then its slavery 

 

 

its not all the time but eventually we need to move to a point where if we going to say things that cannot be substantiated we rather not say them .....if we dont start getting into this habit we contribute towards misinformation and benightedness on the Internet

Seeing you have a greater mastery of the English language feel free to point out how it's evident in this twitter exchange the guy "isn't being serious".

[Zoraptor]

 

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

 

That is wrong, plenty of states will still send you to jail for possession. It has been changing slowly, but right now only 20 states have decriminalized possession. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics

 

 

Decriminalisation is a different issue from what punishment there is if it's still, uh, criminal. Some driving offences work as examples, marijuana possession under a decriminalised system usually results in a small fine much like a mild driving offence- slight speeding, say- will get you a ticket rather than an appearance in court. Small scale possession under a criminalised system is more like a more serious driving offence where you will get arrested, go through court and get a conviction (here at least you can generally get a first offence waived on the formal conviction front so long as the offence isn't serious) but the punishment seldom involves jail time but more often a fine, remedial course, driving ban or similar.

 

That link starts talking about strictly pot related issues but then starts conflating general prison stats and general drug stats which badly confuses the issue. That the US has 2 million+ in jail is largely irrelevant if only a few thousand are due to pot possession infractions; even the total number of those in prison for general drug possession (including coke/ crack/ heroin/ meth etc as well as pot) is irrelevant if very few people are imprisoned for pot possession. They don't say how many people are in jail specifically for pot possession, and they really need to in order to make a valid point.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Yes, that's the point I was making, you probably shouldn't be telling us what to do. So far as I know they don't go to jail for possession, only for dealing, but a lot of times dealing gets pleaded down to possession.

 

That is wrong, plenty of states will still send you to jail for possession. It has been changing slowly, but right now only 20 states have decriminalized possession. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics

 

Number of arrests in 2015 in the U.S. for drug law violations: 1,488,707

• Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 1,249,025 (84 percent)

Just because you get arrested doesn't mean you're going to prison. Most of the cases in our courts are for marijuana possession, but they normally get community service, may be rehab, but not prison.

 

 

You said jail, not prison. I agree that most people sent away for any length of time typically needs more than just a possession charge. But getting arrested and going through the court system typically is going to involve some time in a jail, particularly for those unable to pay for bail.

[ShadySands]

Yeah, some people have spent years behind bars awaiting a trial. Not because bail was denied either but just because they couldn't afford to pay it

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well, I'm not sure about jail either. They probably just give you a court date unless it's over a certain amount.

[redneckdevil]

If u have a certain amount, it's a misdemeanor. If u have over a certain amount u get fined. The times u go to jail/prison is if u are a repeated offender with other things, have a brick, have scales in possession, growing it, driving under the influence of it. Also if ur in court acting the fool/as an ****, repeated offender, or has a judge that believes all drugs that are illegal are dangerous and bad (D.A.R.E) agenda.

Just top of my head of experience with friends/families in Cali, Texas, Nc, SC, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Kansas, Wyoming, and Montana.

 

****ing **** should be legal dammit all over and can't wait for it to happen

[Zoraptor]

US has expelled 35 Russian diplomats, closed two spy sites and sanctioned the FSB and GRU- but not the SVR, which is slightly odd- plus miscellaneous for election tampering and harassment of US diplomats in Russia (which supposedly includes closing, uh, 25 (!) CIA stations english language facilities inside Russia); via executive order.

[Volourn]

Obama is sure trying to start a war with Russia and then the Dems will try to blame Trump for it and he'll have to clean up their mess. L0L

 

It is cute that this is the same Obama who lambasted the Repubs just 4 years ago for trying to restart the Cold War. LMAO

[ShadySands]

Obama Says He Would Have Won A Third Term Had He Been Able To Run