Provisional Builds

[Jojobobo]

I knew that Might was additive, but expected the Rogue damage to be multiplicative, seeing as the tooltips say "+X% damage" not "+X% base damage", and your character sheet lists "damage" for your weapon - so I'm not sure what the devs expected people to think. It's fundamentally misleading.

 

Still, this Rogue's damage should top out at 196-280 damage with the lash and before factoring the DR as I've mentioned elsewhere, and seeing as the recovery is 7% and the Dex is good it should be able to take out one or two of the beefy targets and then drop Shadowing Beyond and escape. This still isn't quite as amazing as other builds, but it is at least fun and pretty cool that the damage can get so high.

 

One thing I would change about the above build is that Finishing Blow should be dropped for Fearsome Strike - this gives four separate Strikes, two of which debuff Fortitude for better Overbearing Prone procs with Weakened (and a third from Sever the Soul should you need it). Deathblows should be more or less a given all the time because of this.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

That's the problem with nearly all description that wants to cover the combat mechanics: they are inaccurate or even flat out wrong. The mechanics are poorly explained. We had to dig into the code and to do millions of tests in order to find out all that stuff that's now shared knowledge here in the forum.

 

As I said in the other thread: clearly some people (designers, writers) don't seem to know how the mechanics "really" work. Or they just can't be bothered with explaining them properly. I hope it's the first reason...

[Jojobobo]

As I said in the other thread: clearly some people (designers, writers) don't seem to know how the mechanics "really" work. Or they just can't be bothered with explaining them properly. I hope it's the first reason...

Both reasons are pretty poor to be honest. What I was expecting was that all the Rogue damage mods would add together and then multiply the "damage" listed, seeing as that would be the most literal interpretation of their tooltip. It's things like this that really get under my skin, accurate tooltip descriptions should be a given and imply laziness on the devs' behalf. I've seen people call them out for it on the Deadfire subforums, so hopefully they'll have learnt their lesson, we'll wait and see.

 

I think I will be keeping Backstab on this Rogue anyway (was wondering whether to cash it in for Vicious Fighting, but 55% hit to crit sounds like enough), so in which case the top end of the damage on a Deathblows Backstab crit will be 266-381 before DR, so I think that's pretty fun. I may well take Nightshroud instead of Tidefall for 3 Shadowing Beyonds per rest, so that'd give a lot of these punchy hits in a tricky encounter. Plus, it's using the Rogue as was advertised by the devs, even if the implementation of Rogues does make using them as advertised difficult.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Jojobobo

[dunehunter]

I just tested the cloak I get from a stronghold quest l, that let u do one escape per encounter. Which I feel pretty disappointed because it cannot pass enemies, u will be blocked by anything in the line between u and the location u wanna teleport too.

 

Secondly, there is a recovery time after u use it!!! The Deadfire one is just much better. I cannot immediately hit someone after escape and the whole movement seems to be really slow.

[Boeroer]

The cloak's escape is also superbuggy. I tried it on a rogue who already hd escape (so I could use escape twice per encounter) and it toally messes up both escape usages.

 

The good thing about escape is the +25 deflection though.

[Boeroer]

I think I will be keeping Backstab on this Rogue anyway (was wondering whether to cash it in for Vicious Fighting, but 55% hit to crit sounds like enough), so in which case the top end of the damage on a Deathblows Backstab crit will be 266-381 before DR, so I think that's pretty fun. I may well take Nightshroud instead of Tidefall for 3 Shadowing Beyonds per rest, so that'd give a lot of these punchy hits in a tricky encounter. Plus, it's using the Rogue as was advertised by the devs, even if the implementation of Rogues does make using them as advertised difficult.

You also get two Backstab attacks (if you didn't notice): the first hit AND the second hit will receive the backstab bonus. Recovery time doesn't matter and it also doesn't matter if you carry a two hander or a single weapon or if you are dual wielding. You will always do TWO backstabs - as long as those are auto attacks. When using an active ability you only get the backstab bonus for the first hit (also when doing a Full Attack).

 

You don't even need to be stealthed when striking. It's only important that you commend the attack from stealth. If you don't "recommand" while the rogue is running towards the target you get the bonus. This makes it possible to deliver backstab even with 0 stealth points. But it's way easier to pump stelath and just stand in the first or secoond row and let the enemy approach while you remain unseen - and then just simply attack once they are near. Also: Backstabs from the second row with a reach weapon are very comfy.

 

So... Backstab is worth it in my opinion. Especially if you also use Shadowing Beyond and the Cape of the Master Mystic.

 

Both reasons are pretty poor to be honest. What I was expecting was that all the Rogue damage mods would add together and then multiply the "damage" listed, seeing as that would be the most literal interpretation of their tooltip. It's things like this that really get under my skin, accurate tooltip descriptions should be a given and imply laziness on the devs' behalf. I've seen people call them out for it on the Deadfire subforums, so hopefully they'll have learnt their lesson, we'll wait and see.

That was me (amongst others).

 

I really love PoE - but that was and still is my no. 1 criticism. Bad, really bad explanation of game mechanics.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

The cloak's escape is also superbuggy. I tried it on a rogue who already hd escape (so I could use escape twice per encounter) and it toally messes up both escape usages.

 

The good thing about escape is the +25 deflection though.

Oh so the escape on the cloak is different from the rogue one? That’s sad

[Jojobobo]

 

I think I will be keeping Backstab on this Rogue anyway (was wondering whether to cash it in for Vicious Fighting, but 55% hit to crit sounds like enough), so in which case the top end of the damage on a Deathblows Backstab crit will be 266-381 before DR, so I think that's pretty fun. I may well take Nightshroud instead of Tidefall for 3 Shadowing Beyonds per rest, so that'd give a lot of these punchy hits in a tricky encounter. Plus, it's using the Rogue as was advertised by the devs, even if the implementation of Rogues does make using them as advertised difficult.

You also get two Backstab attacks (if you didn't notice): the first hit AND the second hit will receive the backstab bonus. Recovery time doesn't matter and it also doesn't matter if you carry a two hander or a single weapon or if you are dual wielding. You will always do TWO backstabs - as long as those are auto attacks. When using an active ability you only get the backstab bonus for the first hit (also when doing a Full Attack).

 

You don't even need to be stealthed when striking. It's only important that you commend the attack from stealth. If you don't "recommand" while the rogue is running towards the target you get the bonus. This makes it possible to deliver backstab even with 0 stealth points. But it's way easier to pump stelath and just stand in the first or secoond row and let the enemy approach while you remain unseen - and then just simply attack once they are near. Also: Backstabs from the second row with a reach weapon are very comfy.

 

So... Backstab is worth it in my opinion. Especially if you also use Shadowing Beyond and the Cape of the Master Mystic.

I didn't know that, definitely makes it more worthwhile as an ability. I guess I might try and squeeze an extra Shadowing Beyond from somewhere, probably Nightshroud as it's a little more predictable.

[Jojobobo]

Now for something that really has crapped on the Rogue character, apparently with high enough Con and Dex you can convince Salty Mast prostitutes to work for you at Caed Nua as a hireling. However, doing so permanently removes their ability to give boons when you sleep with them.

 

This has permanently compromised the Might and Con of my build, as I didn't keep a save from when before I did this (and when I slept with her at Caed Nua the first time I already had her boon so I assumed it was being re-applied) and in a good game I shouldn't need to for fear of random bugs. I've now wasted 27+ hours on a character that permanently no longer works as well as it should do, and now very well may be unviable.

[Dr <3]

Are you sure you can't longer sleep with them? They should appear in the house of caed nua ( second floor) and still be able to give you the boon, as far as i remember

[Jojobobo]

You can sleep with them, but no boon. And yes, trust me, I'm sure. 27 hours of my life truly down the drain for what standards I set when it comes to being entertained by media. Though I guess with Obsidian's track record, I shouldn't be surprised.

 

I'm going to look into refunding my Deadfire pledge today, and then I'll probably be departing from the forums. I'm not saying I'll never buy an Obsidian game again, but I have no confidence that they'll do any sort of better job with Deadfire, so if I were to play it I'd rather pay bargain bucket on-sale prices and lower my expectations right down that it's not going to be a buggy mess rather than me completing my pledge in full only for it to be the same kind of mess PoE 1 was. I'm not happy for them to use my money if the quality I'm going to get is that of PoE 1.

 

And even if they do hotfix this, which I find unlikely, it's only a matter of time before one of us finds another bug that irrevocably and unnecessarily strips a benefit out of the game for no good reason. Why should I, or anyone, put up with the frustration when there's plenty of other games companies who can competently make a game where this doesn't happen? Obsidian have sold themselves as a big boy in the games industry, with a dark storyline and difficult intricate gameplay, but over two years down the line there's still bugs that can ruin someone's 27 hour playthrough. It's an embarrassment for them, and it's simply not good enough.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Jojobobo

[Messier-31]

I have a strange fascination with unarmed builds in RPG games, the idea of punching massive monsters to death has instant appeal.

 

 

[Dr <3]

Ok i understand that bugs are always irritating and you can be rigtly angered by them, but claiming that a build is "ruined" only because you can't apply again a prostitute bonus sounds like making it a way bigger deal than it actually is imho.

On the other side the game still contains a lot of issues that are still not solved after years from the release, and that should not be the case.

[Blades of Vanatar]

I’m all for a pissed off rant at this stage. Game breaking bugs at this point should be fixed. With crowdfunding, backers giving TONS of feedback at beta and heck, this forum itself is a gold mine of info on game mechanics/how the game engine runs/all the issues that are being discovered there is ZERO excuses for bugs still existing in the current build. The whole point of the backers/public betas is to alleviate the work from the Dev team. WE pay for part of the development, WE due part of their damn testing for them. The least WE should expect is a clean game.

[Jojobobo]

Ok i understand that bugs are always irritating and you can be rigtly angered by them, but claiming that a build is "ruined" only because you can't apply again a prostitute bonus sounds like making it a way bigger deal than it actually is imho.

On the other side the game still contains a lot of issues that are still not solved after years from the release, and that should not be the case.

I think I've moved past being annoyed and I'm just happy to let it go, it's such a huge sink of time and it's not worth it for me to be so irritated by it constantly. This isn't the first time that this has happened to (100 hours or so of wasted gameplay, and having to delay certain builds until they fixed aspects of the game) so as a singular issue I would agree this is an overreaction, as a systemic pattern they're definitely coming up short for me now.

 

Here's another update on the Rogue build as someone asked about it in a different thread. Something I didn't mention is that you should definitely with the Rogue try and get Gauntlets of Accuracy from Raedric's Keep in the dungeon cell on day 18, it really helps out a lot.

 

With the Barb, I'm starting to think keeping the zero recovery focus, but maybe going for high Per and 10 or so Dex is a better idea - if you can graze or hit everyone with HoF then it will be incredibly damaging, and it's easy enough to hit something like 110ish accuracy with some Per investment (or at least that kind of ball park). I was going to call the build the Hit Man, which I thought was an okay play on words.

 

If anyone wants to test these builds more thoroughly and write up a Class Build for them, please do so. The Rogue, the Citzal's Martial Power spellbind Wizard and the Barb are all solid builds I would say, and through reading through some of the development in here are 95% complete. I hope someone has some fun with them.

[hansvedic]

For the Spellbind build, I have a quick question.

 

Does Dominate still proc on the blast hits? If not, would this build be viable for a priest?

 

What are your thoughts?

[Boeroer]

It still does.

 

Jojobobo may not be around the forums anymore by the way.

[hansvedic]

Thanks, Boeroer.

Well, wherever he is, I hope Jojobobo is doing well.

On a side note, I just came up with what should be a really fun combo: combining the reflecting monk, perhaps as a Wood Elf, with a priest.

Instead of pumping perception, I would pump dex, leaving perception at base. This allows this build to use The Long Pain. While you lose the alia braccia part when using TLP, Champion's Boon & Devotions for the Faithful (EDIT: meant Crowns for the Faithful) should cause most attacks to still miss, allowing Soul Mirror to do its thing.

In addition, I'm thinking I would take Ryona's Breastplate on this monk for the Vigorous Defense bonus and the Disciplined Barrage bonus from Spelldefense, in addition to the extra intelligence. Crits, anyone?

Here's my current spread I'm thinking of on the Wood Elf monk version:

Str: 17

Con: 10

Dex: 19

Per: 10

Int: 3

Res: 19

What do you think of this?

Edited February 6, 2018 by hansvedic

[Boeroer]

Soul Mirror only reflects a small percentage of all ranged misses (20% if I remember correctly) while Aila Braccia reflects 100% of grazes (and turns them to misses). Those two are no comparable in power. The shield is just bananas when it comes to reflection of ranged attacks.

 

However, with Soul Mirror and Golden Scales (also bonus reflection) and a priest who uses Crowns and Shields for +50 deflection (Champion's Boon doesn't do anything for deflection - although it's very good for the Long Pain's damage) you could at least make sure that most ranged attacks miss and unlock the full potential of Soul Mirror's + Golden Scales' reflection. The Wood Elf's racial comes on top of course.

 

The idea to use the Long Pain is good because if you are attacking from afar enemies are forced to attack you with ranged weapons/spells as well.

 

It would be really cool if one could only summon one Long Pain fist for the main hand and put Aila Braccia into the offhand.

 

By the way: duration of Long Pain will be really short with 3 INT.

[hansvedic]

Strange. I guess the wiki is out of date, as it says that Soul Mirror reflects 50% of ranged misses.

 

Ah well.

[Boeroer]

Huh? That would be great. Maybe I remember incorrectly or they buffed this a bit. I didn't use it for a longy long time.

[Boeroer]

Just checked ingame: it's 50%. So not as bad as I remembered. My bad! So... that's good news for your build idea!

[hansvedic]

That's good to hear!

 

As for the duration of The Long Pain, I figure I might take 3 or 4 points out of resolve and put them into Intellect, raising it to 6 or 7. With Ryona's Breastplate, I'll have 10 INT total, and whenever someone hits or crits me (rare), I'll have a chance to get +20 to all defenses for 20 seconds.

Still, at 3 INT, The Long Pain lasts for 30 * .65 = 19.5 seconds. That might be enough time to fire off a good few hits. That being said, you have a point that longer is better.
 

I suppose that if I take a point out of dexterity, too, that would allow me 8 intellect with 15 resolve. If I go with a party, 15 resolve is probably enough, given buffs from a priest.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Boeroer]

Yes - especially because the animation of the Long Pain is a bit lengthy. So if you have to resummon it all the time you will lose precious dps. Better drop DEX a bit. Long Pain is dual wielding and works with Two Weapon Style. Lots of speed.

[hansvedic]

After running some numbers, I have come to the conclusion that Soul Mirror isn't as great as one would hope on the major fights. Aila Braccia is still pretty good, but I think I'm going to build with The Golden Scales and Durgan-Refined Badgradr's Barricade on my retaliation & reflection monk. A nearly 1 in 3 (30%) chance of reflection is still pretty darn good and allows me to build my character in a way that is tanky while not gimping their offense too much, if at all.

Edited February 7, 2018 by hansvedic