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Provisional Builds


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#1
Jojobobo

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So I thought I’d make a thread for provisional, mostly untested builds so people can get them out their sooner and other people can have a crack at them. The reasons for doing this are that testing builds can take a lot of time, when really it can be nicer to share the love and let people play them sooner rather than later – and warping to just do boss fights can be a little unrewarding in terms of a test. Additionally, these builds may be a work in progress – you have a lot of ideas but there’s just one or two areas that you’re not sure on and so you want some advice to shape the build. Lastly, you might just be horribly impatient or want to stake your claim on a novel idea before one of the other brain-boxes on the forum discovers the same secret as you – or any combination of the above.

 

For the builds themselves, I think most of the key details should be there – essential talents and abilities/spells, equipment and attributes. The ones I’m going to post are going to be pretty much class build level with all equipment and what to take at what level – I’ve even written most of the class builds for some of these already – but less detail than this is perfectly fine so long as you hit the key points. I also think by posting in this thread people reserve the right for a proper class build at some point, collaborations are fine as with myself and Boeroer’s that I helped a little on but they should be agreed in advance, purely so no ones’ toes are trodden on. I guess if you want to take some ideas from a build, but also change it a lot to make it pretty much your own class build then feel free – but as a point of courtesy it’d probably be good to let the original ideas man or woman know.

 

So without further ado, I present three of my own based for solo play. Playing solo means it’s going to be a long while before every detail is thoroughly tested so I thought I’d let you people have a go with them. Plus, there’s my egregious impatience ;) Here we go:

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Working title(s): The Incredible Punching Man, or maybe the Pugilist

 

Class: Barbarian

 

Concept: If you couldn’t tell, an unarmed Barbarian

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

Spoiler

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Working title: The Spry Scorpion (fast, yet defensive, with a sting)

 

Class: Rogue

 

Concept: All-rounder stun-locking Rogue (stun on crit durations fixed 3.04)

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

Spoiler

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Working title(s): The Mirror Man, or maybe the Bulletproof Monk

 

Class: Monk

 

Concept: A ranged reflector Monk full tank

 

Details in spoiler tags…

 

Spoiler

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there we have it! The builds are all more or less complete, they just lack testing. I’m currently focussing on the Barbarian, then I’ll try the Rogue, then I’ll either try the Monk or play Tyranny. Feedback is of course appreciated, particularly if anyone manages to get one playtested before I do.

 

As mentioned, if anyone else have a sweet, mostly fleshed out provisional build, this is the place for them – I look forward to seeing some from you fine people.


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 12:56 PM.

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#2
Boeroer

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The unarmed barb sounds like a lot of fun.

I thought about an unarmed priest because he hasn't any DMG bonuses but can get superhig MIG which works great with Novice's Suffering. And the high ACC bonus and the fact that garzing doesn't matter much works against the priest's low starting ACC without the need to use those special deity weapon talents. Maybe I'll give it a try. :)

By the way Novice's Suffering still has some issues: for example Avenging Storm doesn't work with it.

#3
Jojobobo

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The unarmed barb sounds like a lot of fun.

I thought about an unarmed priest because he hasn't any DMG bonuses but can get superhig MIG which works great with Novice's Suffering. And the high ACC bonus and the fact that garzing doesn't matter much works against the priest's low starting ACC without the need to use those special deity weapon talents. Maybe I'll give it a try. :)

By the way Novice's Suffering still has some issues: for example Avenging Storm doesn't work with it.

Hopefully there's no other unsightly bugs then. The Priest sounds fun, it'd be nice to see it in the future.

 

I guess I mainly wanted it on a Barb as both the damage and accuracy malus from Carnage don't really effect it - that and the fact Barbs have a million ways to up DPS which offsets that you can't Durganize your fists (if only you could just dunk them in hot metal, a man can dream). I have to say, playtesting it so far, punching the Valewood bears to death felt really good  :grin:


Edited by Jojobobo, 31 October 2016 - 01:28 AM.


#4
K Galen B

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Interesting, very interesting.

 

I suspect Aila Braccia reflects outright misses, not just grazes. I didn't stare at the combat log when it happened, but I'm pretty sure I saw critters blasting themselves in the face even when I took no damage. Either way, it was definitely hard to give Aila Braccia up for Little Savior, however technically superior Little Savior is. Battery Sirens politely CCing themselves! In tha face! That's almost as good as kicking them inna fork. Don't think they have a fork, though.


Edited by K Galen B, 31 October 2016 - 01:51 AM.

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#5
Boeroer

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Aila Braccia has an awesome mechanic: if the enemy rolls a graze it gets converted into a miss and then reflected (100% of ranged grazes get converted). No wonder you took no damage. ;) I can't say if Soul Mirror and Aila Barrcia work well together. Maybe Aila Braccia makes Soul Mirror obsolete - when it also reflects all misses and not only grazes. Kaylon will know, he used it a lot.

Edited by Boeroer, 31 October 2016 - 02:43 AM.


#6
K Galen B

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That definitely explains why I saw plenty of hits but don't remember any of the grazes, then.


Edited by K Galen B, 31 October 2016 - 03:13 AM.

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#7
Dr <3

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Good job!
I played some time a ho a brawler barbarian quite similar to yours, was a lot of fun. Main differences were that i used even lower per ( even on potd) because you get very High acc bonus from novice suffering, and you doesn't need to crit anyway. I put all that points in constitition, for max fortitude. and i picked barbarian strike for the full attack 1/encounter mainly. I did the run until mid white march and stopped to start another project, but i will finish the run sooner or later :) .

Thums up for the rogue build, very interesting
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#8
Jojobobo

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Thanks for the compliments, I'll definitely try and make these out in full at some point!

 

Good job!
I played some time a ho a brawler barbarian quite similar to yours, was a lot of fun. Main differences were that i used even lower per ( even on potd) because you get very High acc bonus from novice suffering, and you doesn't need to crit anyway. I put all that points in constitition, for max fortitude. and i picked barbarian strike for the full attack 1/encounter mainly. I did the run until mid white march and stopped to start another project, but i will finish the run sooner or later  :) .

Thanks! It was one of your posts I found when I searched to see if this idea had been made into a full build before - suffice to say you were onto a winning idea. As far as I know, Per can't be dropped any lower than three as a base - otherwise I would likely drop it further. Maybe I'll take Barbaric Blow in the level 16 slot given it's a full attack (obviously not for the useless crit damage), it's a good tip and I've edited it in as an option. I guess I would go for more Con, but this still hits the 300+ end game endurance I so love, and hopefully with the DPS it should kill foes faster than they kill me - I'll wait and see.

 

Aila Braccia has an awesome mechanic: if the enemy rolls a graze it gets converted into a miss and then reflected (100% of ranged grazes get converted). No wonder you took no damage. ;) I can't say if Soul Mirror and Aila Barrcia work well together. Maybe Aila Braccia makes Soul Mirror obsolete - when it also reflects all misses and not only grazes. Kaylon will know, he used it a lot.

Just searching now I turned up a post of Kaylon's that details the set up (must have missed it before when I was originally looking whether people had covered this concept), seeming to imply that both Soul Mirror and Alia Braccia reflect all kinds of ranged attacks. I suppose this is just more or less putting a provisional build to that kind of concept. With 150/150 Deflection and Reflex, I can't see the build ever taking ranged damage at all - which might be boring, yet at the same time might be amusing to watch when they're reflected.

 

I also noticed a mistake I made with the Barb - I forgot to factor in Greater Frenzy into their top possible Might, which is now 38 (Frenzy and food don't stack, unfortunately). I've made the edits, but to update here as well this now means a damage range of 40-46 - and with Durganized Sanguine Plate as well as Two Weapon Style, Frenzy and Bloodlust you have almost zero recovery with Vulnerable Attack (it is zero recovery if you have Vulnerable Attack off). This build is very much a killing machine, I think any other weapon combo would be hard pressed to reach similar levels of DPS.


Edited by Jojobobo, 31 October 2016 - 10:45 AM.


#9
bigwillystyle

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I have a Barbarian MC sitting at level 11-12 range.  It was my Firebrand Barbarian, but he kind of stalled out as I hit the Abbey of the Fallen Moon.  [Mostly got bored with it] 

 

I'm a going to play this Pugilist build in the Abbey and see how it goes.  Only weakness I can see is crush immune foes ... we'll see if Superb spears can help.



#10
Jojobobo

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Crush immune foes TBH honest aren't too common, so I think it should do fine (and as you say, spears with their accuracy bonus can be used instead - and further they can be used single handed for even more accuracy). Let me know how it handles, I do have a save just before the Abbey with Gunslinger Chanter - but as I mentioned I don't like testing areas in a bubble because it doesn't give much of sense of how they handle the early game and it's a little dull.

 

Thinking more on Dr <3's suggestion, I would recommend taking Barbaric Blow at level 10, in time for a one-two punch with HoF at level 11. After HoF and then a Barbaric Blow, you should have both Frenzy and Bloodlust active (particularly with Blood Thirst almost guaranteeing you a second kill) allowing you to go on a minimal recovery rampage.


Edited by Jojobobo, 31 October 2016 - 02:54 PM.


#11
Jojobobo

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For an update on the Barbarian build, so far through testing it's really really good. I'm going through Heritage Hill at level 8 right now and this thing just shreds Darguls - though Heritage Hill isn't terribly tricky Darguls usually do take some time to kill due to their large HP, but not with this build  :biggrin:

 

I think the build also has very nice progression, given the way Novice's Suffering levels up. It's very gratifying when you hit another break mark, my fists are now more accurate than fine other weapons in the Peasant group from the level 7 improvement, with a much higher minimum damage so they're much more consistent. In act I, though the fists are a little underpowered then, I still used them primarily as they do a lot of damage on graze. I swapped to a spear when it was really needed and used it one handed - against things like Trolls or Sporelings that have high crush DR, or against very high Deflection enemies like Shades and Phantoms.

 

In terms of whether Frenzy and Bloodlust and Blood Thirst all together is overkill, personally I think they seem to work extremely well. While on most dual-wielding Barb builds you're probably going to achieve zero recovery due to Durganizing your weapons and so Blood Thirst isn't needed - here you can't so any extra recovery waiver is nice. It also allows you to pull off a very cool manoeuvre, where you kill two enemies in a mob to activate Bloodlust, and then at the same time you use your zero recovery from Blood Thirst to activate Frenzy. This allows for a maximum overlap of the two effects, and turns you into an insane DPS powerhouse for a reasonable duration (particularly when you're still getting recovery waivers, in addition to your already minimal recovery). It's very nice.

 

I thought people might be interested to hear how it was shaping up, so there you go. Suffice to say, this will definitely be a class build in the nearish future. As I keep mentioning, if anyone has any other builds that are fleshed out - post them up. It is good to sometimes discuss builds as you're building them.


Edited by Jojobobo, 03 November 2016 - 01:31 AM.

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#12
Boeroer

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That sounds really cool. I take it that you don't have Sandals of the Forgotten Friar yet?
Would you say that with Bloodlust+Bloodthirst+Frenzy it would be wise to put on Ryonas Vambraces and also take Vulnerable Attack for 8 DR bypass (and maybe adding Garodh's Chorus and Barbaric Retaliation for double retaliation that is not crush?) - or would you think that it's better to go for more speed and take Gauntlets of Swift Action and no Vuln. Attack? Since you only can boost your damage significantly via MIG and scaling maybe the DR bypass is worth the slower attacks? I mean Blood Thirst takes away some of it. What do you think? Or even go for Glittering Gauntlets (if you manage to get them) for the AoE dazing maybe?

Do you know how talents like Wilder Hunter behave with the fists' damage? Do they also only raise the whimpy base damage or maybe the bonus of Novice's Suffering, too, like MIG does? Same with the Bartender's Ring? If those things work differently from talents like Savage Attack they might be a good pick...?

 

 

I'm fleshing out a wizard pike build atm because the testing of Spirit Lance + Knockdown + Runner's Wounding Shot + Envenomed Strike + Clear Out against bounty parties went so extremely well that I decided to make a build out of it, purely focused on 2h melee. Arcane Veil + Wizard's Double is really good in the early game, too - so it's not too hard to solo with a pike as a wizard even in the early game.



#13
peddroelm

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If the unarmed damage bonus from Novice's Suffering works like the unarmed damage bonus from Transcended Suffering used to work (and might still work this way I just haven't test it lately) this damage it is added separately and is modified ONLY by might.

 

Going from memory, again, unarmed damage for non-monks had very low base damage and didn't scale with level ups.

And since all melee damage modifiers (graze, crit, carnage, OSA, various hater perks,  etc etc etc) are summed and applied to the base damage - they didn't end up having much of an effect in the end...



#14
rheingold

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The barb is interesting - but are you going to be able to hit anything with 3 perc? I see you don't take savage attack? Presuming the accuracy hit would be to much for this build. I'm not sure about the maths, wouldn't raising perception and taking savage attack boost damage?



#15
Boeroer

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No. Not much. Only raising MIG and speed will do more damage.

Savage Attack only gives you +20% of the really whimpy base damage of fists. Novice's Suffering's bonus comes after that. So you would trade -5 ACC for an extremely low DMG buff.

The same reason why 3 PER works: grazes only reduce the base damage of fists. But the bonus from Novice's Suffering then gets added. So there's nearly no difference between graze and even crit. This lets the build do very consistent damage.

As peddroelm said, only MIG has an effect on the bonus of Novice's Suffering. I never tested the hater talents with NS, so I was wondering if they may be an exception.

Another plus for Ryona's Vambraces: they turn misses to grazes: fine thing for this build.


Edited by Boeroer, 03 November 2016 - 08:13 AM.


#16
peddroelm

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Speaking of testing - I might wanna re-check some things , including DOTs .. 

 

Have the damage mechanics testing methods gotten any easier - or will I still have to do it the "hard way" ? ( eliminate base weapon damage RNG, enabling full damage log via breakpoints .. etc  )?



#17
K Galen B

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It took me a while to figure out where my sensation of déjà vu was coming from - the Pugilist's build mechanics are surprisingly similar to a punchy-warrior build from the "other" PoE game, Path of Exile. One unusual choice (item or talent) is the source of most damage and this leaves more room for tanky/utility stuff. Neat.



#18
Boeroer

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It's a bit sad though that you need to sacrifice a talent point in order to get acceptable unarmed damage. It would have been nice to be able to loot some more stuff for unarmed fighting. THings like the sandals, maybe knuckle dusters or pit fighter gloves that give you a second damage type or wounding or stun on crit or something fancy like that. Would also allow for enchanting.


Edited by Boeroer, 03 November 2016 - 08:47 AM.

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#19
Ben No.3

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Spiked brass knuckles with crush/pierce damage... That would indeed be awesome ;)

And a unique one with DR bypass. And another unique one "pitfighter's knuckle dusters" with wounding. And "robber's knuckles" with increased damage against enemies with expensive armour.

Edited by Ben No.3, 03 November 2016 - 08:38 AM.

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#20
Boeroer

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Rofl - the last one sounds like some serious fun. :lol: Should be connected to Skaen. ;) 


Edited by Boeroer, 03 November 2016 - 08:48 AM.

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