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I have been playing this game for hours, trying to get really into it, but I just got bored in the end. Instead of lurking around on forums, hoping that the next patch/update will improve things, I can put all my concerns here. Maybe this will help improve the game.

So I'll be talking about many things I didn't like, and a few things I did like or feeling neutral about.

 

The Bad.

 

-Classes. They are very limited and restrictive in the way they play. The fighter has powers that will help him in a melee fight, but when you want a ranged party member, you either have to work around the design of the fighter, or choose another class. The same goes for a rogue.

Other times I wish I could unpick certain powers from a class, and exchange them for something else. A druid without wildshape. I really do not like wildshape, but I do like the druid spells. I suppose I could just not use wildshape, but then I'm using a class for 70% or maybe even less.

What if I want a ranger without an animal companion? Tough luck.

 

But what really bothers me is that I can't multi-class in any way. I have to stick to the bland tank, healer, striker types, while forcing me to use one fighting style per class. If I don't do this, I'm essentially playing with a handicap. When you level, you can pick 1 basic power from any class, but that isn't enough. That doesn't even come close to the possibilities of multi-classing.

The only good class is the cipher, which has some flexibility. Or you can focus on just a back-row character if you want. That makes replayability and combat more fun. Right now, it is not.

 

-Companions. I've never seen a more bland collection of companions in all my gaming years. That may sound a bit dramatic, but while the companions are normal people with a portrait, that isn't my main concern. I can get over it if I had any interaction with my companions. Friendship, romance, camaraderie. There isn't any of that. I have more interaction with my answering machine.

So what I always do is ignore most of the companions, go to the tavern, and make better and more interesting ones. I have even less interaction with the hired adventurers, but at least I made them. I know what they represent and my group looks more, for lack of words, bad-ass.

 

-Skills. Instead of a speech skill, you put all your points in resolve. If you are playing a class that hasn't really use of that attribute, you can choose to play with a handicap, or pick a class that does work. How is this better then having a separate skill for certain persuasions? For someone who likes to talk with NPC's instead of fighting, this would have been nice. But even if you have a high resolve and your character isn't bad stat-wise, there is also the intelligence attribute, which is needed for certain conversations.

I understand that choosing for more 'charisma' will make your character weaker in fighting, but the penalty here is a bit too severe.

 

The Good.

 

-Graphics. The game looks quite nice. I don't think I need to explain that.

 

-Stoic. I am glad with the reactions I can choose for my character. Usually the main character is too talkative, or a mute. But with these replies I can react almost the same as I would do. That's a big plus for me.

 

There are a few things in the story that I could address, but I want to keep it spoiler friendly.

So yeah, the fighting is limited, the story is weak, the companions are dull. Maybe in PoE 2 things will be better.

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As a class-based game, the classes are some of the least restrictive ever designed. Few games let wizards wear plate, or be playable with a party of bards. Fighters can use ranged weapons in a fight, and they get proficiencies in most packages for ranged weapons. But there's nothing wrong with the idea that a class should have core competencies in a role-playing game. Also, unpicking powers doesn't seem like a fair criticism. Wildshape is a class feature, but that doesn't mean that druids are built around it. I barely touched it and use druids on most of my runs. There are also builds around it.

 

They don't have all the options of earlier DnD games, but part of that is the fact that this is the first game in the series made on a limited budget. Keep in mind that subclasses were only in BG2, and prestige classes were only in the NWN expansion packs. Multi-classing would have exceeded their means.

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Imo, they should've made a game about Durance, St.Waidwen, the Dozen etc as their first game. This...??? about Thaos is just too out there for most people. The story of St.Waidwen is nuanced enough yet interesting enough for a first game in the series.

 

I agree somewhat about the combat and classes(you can have ranged Fighter and that thing is ridiculously good at removing priority targets-at level 10, it could've up to +100 accuracy which practically guarantees a crit-combine that with a Priest and a Paladin for another +20 Acc and a set of firearms...). It could've definitely been better. Current way is too...excel like for my taste. Which is not to say it is boring...it just lacks emotions.

 

...in fact the whole game is largely by the numbers. Emotions are either absent or misplaced in this game(sadly). This is definitely one of areas Obsidian has to improve in future. And it's not like their games didn't have emotions(Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights 2, KoTOR 2...), it's just...I feel like almost the entire story of Pillars is, to borrow from superhero movies, an origin story. You know?

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8/10 for me, got what i expected.

 

No class character progression is a modern trend in games. And i think it is better. OE also seems to experiment with that in Tyranny so we will see how it works. Good thing is that already in PoE Wizard and Barbaian could work on similar stats, and both wear heavy armour.

 

Not many companions are romancable in PoE. Maybe eder if we are girl. Hilvaris could agree for quickie in furry form. Devil.. it will be hard but maybe. But for rest  romancing would be out of character.

 

Resolve is not that needed. You could be very charismatic with just Lore. Also many dialogue options are determined by alligment. Int, Dex, Might, Per also often happen as dialogue requirments.

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Yeah, I'm not entirely sure where did the whole Resolve thing originate. There's a ton of checks which require INT or Lore, and a decent amount still for Perception or Dexterity. Possibly the least of them require Might and Constitution, but even those are there (and some of them are pretty damn essential)

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Of course each player has a different opinion on the game, based on their personal gaming history, desires, nostalgia etc. (for me PoE is a 9/10).

Still, there are some points that are objective. To say that PoE is restrictive in terms of classes is just plain false, sorry. You can do A LOT of things, from muscle wizards and clever barbarians to ranged fighters and melee chanters.

 

Maybe you have in mind some FALSELY class-based games, like for example Dìvinity: Original Sin, which presents you a lot of classes when you build your characters, but it's just an illusion of choice, because their system actually DOES NOT have classes, and your choice is completely meaningless, since from level 2 onward your character can learn whatever they want to and master ALL the magic elemental schools even when you started as a Soldier or a Rogue.

 

About companions, I find them to be quite interesting, with evolving personalities and interesting moral dilemmas. More adult and mature, in a sense.

What is your idea of good, interesting companions? Don't mention some of the over-the-top, one-dimentional BG characters, please.

Anyway, I agree with you that they need to expand on friendships and personal motives in PoE2, hopefully without cringeworthy romances!

 

I also agree on the story, while I wouldn't call it "weak" per se, it sure has some issues in how the plot unfolds and how quickly it gets weaved and then resolved in the final act.

Edited by SkySlam
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Edér, I am using WhatsApp!

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Yeah, the game is anywhere between 75 and 85% to me. Could it be better? Yes. But this version is very good too. Which doesn't mean I'll settle for less. If a potential exists, it should be reached, simple as that. And it exists in PoE.

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Resolve isn't persuade, and resolve is not overwhelmingly dominant for conversational solutions.

 

Rogues can be played melee or ranged, as can ciphers, wizards, etc., so there is a lot more class variety. I don't see how it helps anybody's replayability to play a druid but without wildshape, anyway.

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So yeah, the fighting is limited, the story is weak, the companions are dull. Maybe in PoE 2 things will be better.

 

I give this troll a 6/10. Go back to Dragon Age "bro".

Edited by TheisEjsing
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Resolve isn't persuade, and resolve is not overwhelmingly dominant for conversational solutions.

 

Rogues can be played melee or ranged, as can ciphers, wizards, etc., so there is a lot more class variety. I don't see how it helps anybody's replayability to play a druid but without wildshape, anyway.

 

Some people like me don't like the notion of shapeshifting, yet like the idea of Nature magic. Maybe the OP's one of us? To give an example:

 

I like Sacred 2's Dryad(speaking about magic, forget the archery), this kind of magic resonates nicely with me. Even the often ignored and overlooked magic of Voodoo is interesting, but the Nature magic takes the proverbial cake. She has NO shapeshifting.

I like WoW's Druid, but don't like Moonkin etc. The idea behind Balance playstyle is very alluring, but no thanks to the idea of Shapeshifting.

I don't like any class that forces you to shapeshift.

 

...but why? Because when I create a character, I want to have that character, be him, whatever. I don't want to suddenly control a lion or an Owlbear. Because those forms ARE NOT my character. Is there a way to remedy this? Yes:

 

Allow us to customise shapeshifts. Then it'd be my character, just in another form. But I haven't seen this done to date, so I've to politely decline Shapeshifting ideas and classes. Just for the note, Druid is at the lowest my 4th most beloved class(it really has nice and versatile set of spells, good job), but I'd sacrifice the ability to spiritshift for...an opportunity to cast one or two more spells / level. Until then...

 

...until then, this could very well apply to OP, idk.

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So yeah, the fighting is limited, the story is weak, the companions are dull. Maybe in PoE 2 things will be better.

 

I give this troll a 6/10. Go back to Dragon Age "bro".

 

 

I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Pillars and Obsidian ought to learn a thing or two from Dragon Age: Origins because it is one of the better RPGs out there. And I feel like they could learn a great deal. Not copy, but learn and adapt.

 

Inquisition sucks though. It's more or less a single player MMO. For shame. Dragon Age was such a nice franchise until they started experimenting(this reminds me of Warhammer Fantasy).

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Then play the druid, and don't shapeshift. I've done that before, you end up with a strong character with plenty of things to do. I hardly think asking for the ability to prohibit shapeshifting enhances replayability.

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Then play the druid, and don't shapeshift. I've done that before, you end up with a strong character with plenty of things to do. I hardly think asking for the ability to prohibit shapeshifting enhances replayability.

 

Ok, but in a lot of games, you lose out a great deal of efficacy. This is one of nice things about Pillars, most playstyles are at the very least VIABLE sub PoTD(maybe even there, who knows?). If you don't know what the f I'm talking about, here's a bit of extra sexiness from Josh himself:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyrEhAMUPo

(be careful tho, this is VERY NERDY)

Edited by hrwd
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I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Pillars and Obsidian ought to learn a thing or two from Dragon Age: Origins because it is one of the better RPGs out there. And I feel like they could learn a great deal. Not copy, but learn and adapt.

*shiver*

No. Just... No. The less Obsidian learns from Dragon Age: Origins the better.

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Then play the druid, and don't shapeshift. I've done that before, you end up with a strong character with plenty of things to do. I hardly think asking for the ability to prohibit shapeshifting enhances replayability.

 

Ok, but in a lot of games, you lose out a great deal of efficacy. This is one of nice things about Pillars, most playstyles are at the very least VIABLE sub PoTD(maybe even there, who knows?). If you don't know what the f I'm talking about, here's a bit of extra sexiness from Josh himself:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyrEhAMUPo

(be careful tho, this is VERY NERDY)

 

 

That it is a nice thing about Pillars is exactly what we're talking about (and what the OP disputed).

 

Melee wizards, non-shapeshifting druids, ranged rogues, etc. are easily viable in POTD.

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I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Pillars and Obsidian ought to learn a thing or two from Dragon Age: Origins because it is one of the better RPGs out there. And I feel like they could learn a great deal. Not copy, but learn and adapt.

*shiver*

No. Just... No. The less Obsidian learns from Dragon Age: Origins the better.

 

 

I disagree. Obsidian nailed the analytical, mechanical aspects. Now it's time to warm it up a bit. To bring a spark of life to it. Except the big things in each act ending and naturally THE END, I haven't felt that much emotion here. Especially not when compared to one of their earlier games:

 

Ammon Jerro scene when he's murdering that lord(when you just arrive in Neverwinter). Or the scene when the daemons attack and everything gets spooky including weird blue flame.

The scene on Dantooine when Kreia reveals her true identity. Maybe TSLRCM restored bits of it, but it looked like it came from a "Fistful of Dollars"-that memorable. Or even better: the entire Peragus Mining Station. It was so...odd and extra spooky / creepy(so it's not just scenes I'm talking about). Entire TSL is creepy imo. Like they somehow managed to inject Warhammer, maybe even Alien vibe into Star Wars. GREAT JOB there!

 

Not to compare it to other studio's works. DA:O failed at mechanics(bugs, weak skills, op skills etc), PoE failed at the emotive side. If they learn from it, they(Obs) are going to have a new classic on their hands. Let's hope that happens. 

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If they learn from it, they(Obs) are going to have a new classic on their hands. Let's hope that happens.

We're getting into extremely subjective territory here, but to me, even the emotional side of Dragon Age: Origins felt extremely generic and by the books. Sure, emotions existed and they might as well have been exchanged with any other Bioware game. Obsidian has managed emotional titles in the past, I'm sure they can manage just that again at some point without harkening to Bioware in any way. I for one can live without panties and pants of all of my companions dropping to the ground the moment player character appears and listening to absolutely everybody having issues with their parents/father figures while figuring out that every single person in my party is actually a special snowflake with a special past (it's why I adored Sagani in PoE after all, she wasn't really special in any way, just really good at what she did.)

Edited by Fenixp
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Pillars (story/character-wise) looks like a game that 4-5 different people did seperately, then met up and said "cool, lets mix this all up, each gets 20% of his/her work in the game". Of course they all done well so the game ended up being pretty good (world building, mechanics helped A LOT in that) but still an essence of inconsistency was floating around.

I'm pretty sure the sequel will have a more focused schedule; the world is set, the first game is done, feedback came from all around, they don't have to make things up during a kickstarter campaign this time etc. I'm pretty optimistic about the second game actually (not that I didn't like the 1st one. It's an 8-8.5/10 for me).

 

And oh. Dragon Age: Origins kicked ass. It's one of my favourite rpgs of all time, tbh. Yes it seemed generic at the beginning and the base story remained like that throughout the game but characters, situations, dialogues, origins, gameplay and pretty much everything else was phenomenal.

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DA:O is fine. (sequels less)

But DA is unrefined, since it still sticks to tactical comat with all this TPP. It should go more into action based (like Witcher). There is a niche for tactical isometric (i think so).

PoE should change, evolve but in natural way, based on what worked to what degree.

 

OE should probably experiment with new IP, like Tyranny, and check out different mechanic in smaller games.

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I'm all in for changes in general. Although I had no problem with combat in Pillars. Want to see how Tyranny's gonna play. Custom made spells sounds like a great idea.

DA needs to decide wether it should go for action or stay tactical. I'm currently playing Inquisition. Action style is boring, tactical is frustrating. Can't have them both I guess.

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I disagree. Obsidian nailed the analytical, mechanical aspects. Now it's time to warm it up a bit. To bring a spark of life to it. Except the big things in each act ending and naturally THE END, I haven't felt that much emotion here.

 

 

 

Pillars (story/character-wise) looks like a game that 4-5 different people did seperately, then met up and said "cool, lets mix this all up, each gets 20% of his/her work in the game". Of course they all done well so the game ended up being pretty good (world building, mechanics helped A LOT in that) but still an essence of inconsistency was floating around.

 

 

While Pillars definitely did lack a strong authorial vision, and it did hurt the overall quality of the game, I still find it preferable to DA:O which seemed to have an authorial vision that basically boiled down to "be as generic as possible but also add EDGY wherever you can".

 

 

#neverforget

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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I would click the "like" button, aluminiumtrioxid, but there's an extremely slim chance a person working at EA might see that like and even slimmer chance still that said person would interpret it as me liking the trailer, so uh... I won't.

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-Companions. I've never seen a more bland collection of companions in all my gaming years. That may sound a bit dramatic, but while the companions are normal people with a portrait, that isn't my main concern. I can get over it if I had any interaction with my companions. Friendship, romance, camaraderie. There isn't any of that. I have more interaction with my answering machine.

So I'll be talking about many things I didn't like, and a few things I did like or feeling neutral about.

I understand that perspective is subjective, but honestly, that's can't all be true. Look at Aloth, nothing bland about that mentalist. Or Pallegrina, definitely not bland. Or Grieving Mother, jesus mother of mary, she in no way shape or form is bland.

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Current IWD 2 Party:

Gridley - Cleric of Bane - LN

Ogg Vorbis - Barbarian/Fighter - CG

Gorbid, Son of Gorb - Fighter/Cleric of Selune - TN

Don Juan - Fighter/Thief - CN

Junt the Unsane - Bard - CE

Trant - Tiefling Wizard - CE

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

-Companions. I've never seen a more bland collection of companions in all my gaming years. That may sound a bit dramatic, but while the companions are normal people with a portrait, that isn't my main concern. I can get over it if I had any interaction with my companions. Friendship, romance, camaraderie. There isn't any of that. I have more interaction with my answering machine.So I'll be talking about many things I didn't like, and a few things I did like or feeling neutral about.

I understand that perspective is subjective, but honestly, that's can't all be true. Look at Aloth, nothing bland about that mentalist. Or Pallegrina, definitely not bland. Or Grieving Mother, jesus mother of mary, she in no way shape or form is bland.
I think he means the blandness of the relationship of PC and companions, as there is little interaction in that way

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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So yeah, the fighting is limited, the story is weak, the companions are dull. Maybe in PoE 2 things will be better.

 

I give this troll a 6/10. Go back to Dragon Age "bro".

 

A very constructive reply to someone who put thought and time into his criticism. I give your reply 1/10.

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