What are the most powerful classes in 3.03?

[KDubya]

 

Just get the shod in faith boots for your monk, level up survival for +healing, wear something like Maneha's scale armor for even more +healing, then put him on point, turn his AI on, and let him blow stuff up with Torment's reach until you feel like micromanaging him (usually when his wounds fill up).  Monk doesn't have to be complex, and he can be very strong, more so when heavily managed like every class.  But after using relentless storm (druid), basically locking down every enemy on the screen, then shape shifting to do more melee damage than your melee classes, you probably won't think monk is the best class, but I do think he fills front liner and enemy backline disrupter roles better than any caster classes.

 

I don't do the WM, so no Maneha's scale. INT for my monk is always at 10, because i don't do AoE skills and such.

 

I say monk is complex because i give him a strong build but that requires a lot of micromanaging to be effective.

 

I'm not a fan of putting characters in a battle, turn AI on and then wait that the AI wins the battle in my place.

 

 

When you say you don't do AoE with your monk what exactly are you not doing? I mean you are using Torment;s Reach, the AoE cone of death right?

 

I agree that  base 10 intellect is enough, 14 with food and items is plenty. The AI does a good job of spamming Torment's Reach so that you don't have to babysit so much. it gets jammed up sometimes with Swift Strikes. Force of Anguish and Flagellant's Path does require micro but that is pretty easy. It helps a bunch that Monks are so sturdy and that the micro required involves dishing out more damage or CC and not micro to keep a squishy alive like a Rogue.

 

With me and my Monk I just need to micro where he starts the fight and then make sure Swift Strikes get active. From then on the AI does a fine job banging out Torment's. I just need to identify any targets that need t be prone for the rest of their life, or at least for the next ten+ seconds, or if there is a nice target for a big Flagellant's Path.

[Masterteo89]

 

 

Just get the shod in faith boots for your monk, level up survival for +healing, wear something like Maneha's scale armor for even more +healing, then put him on point, turn his AI on, and let him blow stuff up with Torment's reach until you feel like micromanaging him (usually when his wounds fill up).  Monk doesn't have to be complex, and he can be very strong, more so when heavily managed like every class.  But after using relentless storm (druid), basically locking down every enemy on the screen, then shape shifting to do more melee damage than your melee classes, you probably won't think monk is the best class, but I do think he fills front liner and enemy backline disrupter roles better than any caster classes.

 

I don't do the WM, so no Maneha's scale. INT for my monk is always at 10, because i don't do AoE skills and such.

 

I say monk is complex because i give him a strong build but that requires a lot of micromanaging to be effective.

 

I'm not a fan of putting characters in a battle, turn AI on and then wait that the AI wins the battle in my place.

 

 

When you say you don't do AoE with your monk what exactly are you not doing? I mean you are using Torment;s Reach, the AoE cone of death right?

 

I agree that  base 10 intellect is enough, 14 with food and items is plenty. The AI does a good job of spamming Torment's Reach so that you don't have to babysit so much. it gets jammed up sometimes with Swift Strikes. Force of Anguish and Flagellant's Path does require micro but that is pretty easy. It helps a bunch that Monks are so sturdy and that the micro required involves dishing out more damage or CC and not micro to keep a squishy alive like a Rogue.

 

With me and my Monk I just need to micro where he starts the fight and then make sure Swift Strikes get active. From then on the AI does a fine job banging out Torment's. I just need to identify any targets that need t be prone for the rest of their life, or at least for the next ten+ seconds, or if there is a nice target for a big Flagellant's Path.

 

 

No, i don't do Torment's Reach nor the AoE cone of death.

 

I play the game in italian, so i don't know the name of the skills i use : i will descript these to you.

 

What my monk does is :

 

1- the punch that stun.

 

2- the skill that makes her attack faster

 

3- the skill that punch away one enemy and makes him lie on the ground for a short time

 

4- the aura that give +8 to deflection or +8 to all defences save for deflection

 

5- the skill that the more i gain wounds, the more my damage reduction increase.

 

6- my only AoE : each time i gain a wound, the enemyes around my monk gets damaged.

 

 

 

 

And i've almost cleared Path of The Damned like this. It's harder to manage a monk made this way, it requires micromanaging. ( because i use her on front line and with PoTD difficulty enemyes are strong).

 

But with high perception this monk can stop enemy attacks often and has high accuracy (my monk has 280 hp,  54 stopping power and 100 accuracy at only level 12 ).

 

 

It's almost unstoppable in 1 vs 1 with the ability i have.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Masterteo89

[Ohmega]

For me, so far, monk has easily been the strongest class. It has way too much potential and items do far more for the class than other classes. It combos EXTREMELY well with a Cipher (and of course the more heals you have it just gets stronger and stronger, slightly more than other classes that is) and has so much movement in a fight that just gives you options. Also the monk is really very flexible when it comes to items and can be insanely strong in ANY armour type.

Here's a fun build I'm going to try with my monk: Shod-in-Faith (boots), Nature's Embrace (belt) and Raiment of Wael's Eyes (armour). Maybe +Cloak of the Cheat for extra movement shenanigans. 

Flagellant's Path is just insanely strong with high attack speeds/low recovery times and a Cipher to abuse the positioning power.

I personally haven't found the wizard very strong but honestly I think I might've just played it wrong, used the wrong spells or something... The spells just seem so much worse than the other spellcasters. 5th level priest's pillar of fire is stronger than wizard's 6th level spells... and Druid spells are just ridiculous tbh (Calling the World's Maw, Relentless Storms/Plague of Insects and then even the weaker level 6 has Venombloom which is PARTY FRIENDLY...). I haven't felt the impact of wizard's spells like I've felt the others. But, as I said, probably doing something wrong if people actually rate it the strongest... Either that or people don't like playing Druids (an old hang up from BG days - from when they were crazy back then as well) or don't like throwing offensive priest spells? (not that either druid or priest has been underrated by people on these forums actually/this thread)

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ohmega

[Elric Galad]

Reading your post, it seems that you didn't take into account WM content.

 

Wizard had a lot of content such as Lvl 4 Shadowflame, Lvl 7 Crushing Doom, Lvl 8 Wall of many colors and freezing rake.

 

Even before this, Lvl 3 alacrity by itself makes a juge difference because you can cast MORE spells or just auto attack with summoned weapon. Lvl 6 Freezing pillars is Venombloom counterpart.

[Ohmega]

Reading your post, it seems that you didn't take into account WM content.

 

Wizard had a lot of content such as Lvl 4 Shadowflame, Lvl 7 Crushing Doom, Lvl 8 Wall of many colors and freezing rake.

 

Even before this, Lvl 3 alacrity by itself makes a juge difference because you can cast MORE spells or just auto attack with summoned weapon. Lvl 6 Freezing pillars is Venombloom counterpart.

Ah, I see, just started on the WM content. Wanted to try out other classes I hadn't tried yet. This might explain a lot and yeah, I haven't used those spells you mentioned. I didn't much like the Alacrity + Summoned weapon build tbh. Took too long to get online and then attacking eats into your spellcasting anyway and then it didn't do enough in the larger more difficult and longer fights to be worth it by comparison to just having a different character. But thanks for letting me know, I'll definitely be playing wizard some more with WM content to see how it is.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ohmega

[Boeroer]

With a wizard, on every spell level there's at least one spell that is superawesome - from lvl 1 on. Even without WM. Chillfog, Combusting Wounds, Alacrity and Kalakoth's Minor Blights, Pull of Eora and many more. I love the wizard's spells. Such a big variety and for every build idea you can find something that fits - from tank to glass cannon, from melee to ranged.

Druids and priest also have awesome spells, just look at the Storms or Shining Beacon and such - but sometimes I have the feeling that they have some spell levels where there are only mediocre or circumstantial spells.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dr <3]

With a wizard, on every spell level there's at least one spell that is superawesome - from lvl 1 on. Even without WM. Chillfog, Combusting Wounds, Alacrity and Kalakoth's Minor Blights, Pull of Eora and many more. I love the wizard's spells. Such a big variety and for every build idea you can find something that fits - from tank to glass cannon, from melee to ranged.

Druids and priest also have awesome spells, just look at the Storms or Shining Beacon and such - but sometimes I have the feeling that they have some spell levels where there are only mediocre or circumstantial spells.

I feel the same, expecially for druid, all good speels are on the same lvl, and the lvl above is totally empty of good stuff. The last 2 lvl have only 1 good spell each. Wiz had by far the best spell design.

[Climhazzard]

Lol Druid spell design is like... should I open with a relentless storm or should I open with a ... relentless storm, I guess an overwhelming wave might be a good alternative, but mostly everything pales in comparison.  Except the tornado spell, such fun.

 

Wizards are really good though, especially on PoTD since they can self buff their own accuracy with Eldritch aim which is a level 1 spell.  Level 2 spells have an AoE stuck, AoE blind, AoE health drain.  Level 3 spells have an AoE slow, AoE DR/Deflection debuff, self haste, minor blights.  Level 4 confusion spell is a life saver.  The list goes on, you just have to know what works best for various spell levels, and since their accuracy buff stacks with priest accuracy buffs they are more likely to be able to CC bosses than any other class.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Climhazzard

[rheingold]

Overwhelming wave is by far the best opener I've found. It's great fun and turns tough fights into cake walks, as long as you don't hit your own characters....

[Boeroer]

The best thing about Overwhelming Wave is that you can cast it out of combat and it's range is huge. You can open a combat with it even if you don't see the enemy.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Boeroer

[JerekKruger]

You can open a combat with it even if you don't see the enemy.

 

That's how I operate in real life: I constantly throw glasses of water into the shadows until my internal soundtrack changes to let me know I've pissed someone off 

[Elric Galad]

I really appreciate the 3.0 design of the cipher spells. My cipher is currently level 8, she has 4 single target CC (whispers, mental binding, puppetmaster and silent scream) and each one seem to be the best in some situation even if they have slightly similar function.

 

And then, there's druid. With druid, you're praying to trade your level 6, 7, and sometimes even 8 spell slots against more level 5 ones.

 

It is not only Relentless Storm. Plague Swarm, firebug, Earth Talon, they all belong to the same level... Level 1-4th are great too...

[JerekKruger]

Out of interest Elric, when do you prefer puppetmaster to whispers?

[Elric Galad]

When I have a lot of focus, I need to react quickly (puppetmaster is instant cast) and the ennemies are powerful and limited in numbers.

 

Also, my cipher was a boreal dwarf and ennemies were primordial (bloody pwgra now with working maggots...). Which meant I had a lot of chances of success and didn't need to save Focus.

 

 

Puppetmaster basically saved my group against a big group of druids and Pwgra by allowing me to turn 2 Menpwgra extremelly quickly. I don'think there could could have been a better spell in this particular case.

 

I also plan to use puppetmaster against the alpine to wipe the adds

Edited January 13, 2017 by Elric Galad

[JerekKruger]

I think I prefer my charmed enemies to have the -25% debuff from charm than be full strength from dominate. After all, I'm going to have to kill them eventually, so I might as well let them be weakened by their friends first. Puppetmaster has a longer duration, but I can always recast whispers and at ten focus it's not hard to keep the focus in reserve or build it quickly. It feels to me that puppetmaster is just a worse spell, hence why I asked.

[Elric Galad]

Whisper is indeed better overall. Just a couple of times I found puppetmaster was better.

[JerekKruger]

I'll have to keep an open mind and look out for places where it might be more useful.

 

By the way, I completely agree about Cipher's having great single target crowd control. I was really surprised that I struggled more with the fights on the Xaurip level of the Endless Paths than I did with the Ogre level. With the Ogres, being able to charm one or two of them (also a Boreal dwarf so charming a Wilder is pretty easy) then mental binding the last remaining one allowed me to beat most the easier fights taking almost no endurance damage at all. Meanwhile when you're fighting a crowd of 10-15 weaker mobs single target CC just isn't that great. 

[IamNOOB]

Depends what you mean by most powerful. Most useful one does not surely mean best dmg vs 1 target.
The most useful class [in my view] is the priest/ the paladin. They got much more uses and do not have to rely on hitting an enemy to be great. For me the most useless class is Hunter [=ranger]. I mean I don't claim they totally suck - I just do not need them in my team of 6. I never did in other RPGs, too.

Edited January 14, 2017 by IamNOOB

[MaxQuest]

For me the most useless class is Hunter. I mean I don't claim they totally suck - I just do not need them in my team of 6. I never did in other RPGs, too.

It's hard to balance rangers right.

Due to their solitary nature they usually don't bring any buffs, cc or passives that make the party stronger. They are mostly designen around [ranger + pet] duo. Game designer can make this pair weaker than other average class; stronger; or being on par. But even if they are perfectly balanced dps wise, their versatility would still be questionable as they can't escape like rogues, can't save a teammate like a paladin, priest or any hard-cc class, and they don't have any ace in the sleeve for the boss fights.

 

---

As for OP's question, I still believe that class power depends on game difficulty, resting frequency and the party composition built around that character.

Assuming optimal use of the class/build, in my humble opinion classes could be placed in the following tiers:

 

Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights)

tier 1: cipher

tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter

tier 3: rogue, monk, druid

tier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster)

 

 

Pre-PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights)

tier 1: cipher

tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, rogue, monk, druid

tier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster)

 

 

Pre-PotD difficulty (boss fights)

tier S: priest

tier 0: wizard, druid

tier 1: cipher, fighter, paladin

tier 2: barbarian, ranger, chanter, rogue, monk

 

----------------------------

 

PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 8 fights)

tier 1: cipher

tier 2: barbarian, paladin, wizard (blasting), monk

tier 3: druid, fighter, ranger, chanter

tier 4: priest, wizard (pure-caster), rogue

 

 

PotD difficulty (easy-medium encounters; resting > 4 fights)

tier 1: cipher

tier 2: barbarian, paladin, fighter, ranger, wizard (blasting), chanter, monk, druid

tier 3: priest, wizard (pure-caster), rogue

 

 

PotD difficulty (boss fights)

tier S: priest

tier 0: wizard, druid, cipher

tier 1: paladin

tier 2: barbarian, ranger, fighter, chanter, monk

tier 3: rogue

 

----------------------------

 

Combining that all together, plus how many there are boss/hard fights vs easy/medium ones, I'd overall place classes in following tiers of power: (for PotD 6-man party), (taking into account their overall contribution over the whole play-through)

 

tier 1.0: cipher, wizard

tier 2.0: priest, druid

tier 2.3: paladin, barbarian

tier 3.0: chanter, ranger, monk

tier 3.4: fighter

tier 4.0: rogue

Edited January 14, 2017 by MaxQuest

[3rdID]

 

 

----------------------------

 

Combining that all together, plus how many there are boss/hard fights vs easy/medium ones, I'd overall place classes in following tiers of power: (for PotD 6-man party), (taking into account their overall contribution over the whole play-through)

 

tier 1.0: cipher, wizard

tier 2.0: priest, druid

tier 2.3: paladin, barbarian

tier 3.0: chanter, ranger, monk

tier 3.4: fighter

tier 4.0: rogue

 

 

Thanks, this is great information! I would also like to see Boeroer's tier rankings for a 6 person POTD party for overall contribution during an entire play-through.

[Boeroer]

In my experience, chanter and monk are WAY more powerful than a ranger and can easily compete with a barb. I also thingk that wizards are stronger than ciphers by far. But this is of course all influenced by one's playstyle. I have no problem with resting, there are limitless camping supplies. And it's not the casters why I rest often - I like to combine high self heals with offensive skilling in order to get sturdy but also damaging chars. So most of the time I have to rest because of health (if I don't want to gulp down potions of Infuse oVE all the time. This obviously makes vancian casters very strong. When you can handle normal encounters without using all your spells (use summoned weapons or per encounter abilites instead and so on) then all your spells can go into those encounters which are very hard - which makes them easy. I don't like to play with more than 3 casters anymore because it becomes too easy, even with upscaled content and whatnot. So for me, the power levels would be (starting with the strongest, special reasons in brackets):

 

- wizard

- priest, druid

- cipher (mind control), chanter (The Dragon Thrashed) 

- paladin, barbarian (HoF), monk (Torment's Reach, The Long Pain)

- ranger (Stormcaller, having a pet that has no health pool), fighter (Charge)

- nothing

- still nothing

- Concelhaut's Skull... in a block of concrete at the bottom of the Mariana Trench (makes funnny noises)

- rogue (looks funny when he falls on his face) 

 

This is also based on my experience while soloing. But "power" also includes things like support, buffing, cc and all that suff, not just damage or survivability.

But there are some exceptions. Special builds can turn a class upside down - like a rogue specialized on slinging spells, which can be powerful and great fun. So this order is not strict for me. And it's more based on a feeling (gathered during countless playthroughs, all PoTD) than on facts.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Told ya I am biased toward ciphers)

 

Paralyze/prone the focus fired targets and quickly bring them down, while charming the threats is my favorite playstyle. Followed only by chain Amplified Wave (and Shining Beacons if need be).

 

 

P.S. Damn, I feel the temptation to try an MC rogue now... (dual Drawn-in-Spring or Blunderbuss). Covered by two ciphers, wizard and assisted by priest/paladin could result in an interesting run...

[Boeroer]

Blunderbuss could be really cool if Body Attunement from two different ciphers stacked (does it?).

When using a blunderbuss, don't forget to bring your Ring of Searing Flames (or use the wizard, he can also cast Expose Vulnerabilities).

[MaxQuest]

Not sure about Body Attunement. Will have to test it.

As for wizard, there is also synergy with Golden Gaze (since it also can proc Expose Vulnerabilities), plus Combusting Wounds.

If only there was room for a chanter with Sure-Handed and Aefyllath...

[Boeroer]

Combusting Wounds + Alacrity + Expose proc + two projectiles with Blast is nice.