The US Election 2016, Part IV

[Hurlshort]

What's surprising about it? Sounds like do nothing. And yeah, I'd like to opt out of Social Security. Most younger people would (not that I'm young). It's a great deal for lower incomes, terrible for higher incomes. Where does that leave people who are on it?

 

Huh.  Kind of a waste of time to talk to you about this stuff.  You are just going to look for the most negative way to spin it.  We've been down that road enough times at this stage in our relationship.  

[Wrath of Dagon]

That's fine, I wasn't particularly trying to argue, just surprised you have libertarian believes.

[Hurlshort]

That's fine, I wasn't particularly trying to argue, just surprised you have libertarian believes.

 

Yeah, that seems weird to me because we've had these discussions for years.  My big beliefs all line up pretty well with the Libertarian party:

 

1.  Get rid of Patriot Act and its big brother offspring.

2.  Stop freaking out about immigration.

3.  Gay marriage is cool.

 

Only thing I get nervous about is lack of corporate oversight, but considering they control the government now, I'm not really worried it wil get worse.

[BruceVC]

 

You definitely are not predictable at the moment, your first post I ever read was where you said you would wear that dress if Trump lost and my initial impression of you was you are a hardcore Trump supporter and there is nothing wrong with that but of course on principle I would have held you to your bet but then I realized I was wrong about you and as GD said no one could hold a new member to such a bet 

 

But this post you made now, do you think you insignificant ? In what context do you think you insignificant and whats your view on Gun Control in the USA?

Thanks for the kind words, Bruce.  I think humans are individually important, of course.  I love my cats and, as living creatures, I believe they are important also.  See, some of us Republicans are all soft and mushy inside.  However, in terms of having long term notable significance in a broad population sense, we're not.  I think that's good. The people who want to tweet can share what they want, as much and as little of their lives, and the people who want to refrain can take solace that they're not 'important' enough for people to intrude into their privacy in a meaningful way.

 

Now, I have to say something about my ill advised bet, which also relates to privacy.  First of all, I made the bet.  I don't feel bad about it per se other than it was a bit childish.  I'm pretty confident that the specific of my bet probably won't happen anyway.  I doubt we go into the election with it being literally only 2% in the average of polls and if it does, I'd be so shocked if Trump doesn't win that wearing a dress and calling myself a bitch won't eve register.  It's not even the most humiliating wound I will have inflicted on myself.  ...And, hell, nothing to establish your cred like cashing out your loss after a bet.  It was mostly ill advised because I'm somewhat of a nomad and I'm afraid I won't be around.  However, November is so close, only a few months hence, I'll just make sure I keep poking my head in the door.  Frankly, no one's taken me up on the bet, so it won't matter anyway.

 

Childish? Not at all, I often take bets in RL. For me a monetary bet is a good way to see if someone really believes what they say

 

And suggesting you even would wear a dress takes guts, I am a big supporter of the LGBT and if  I did lose this type of bet I could wear a dress without feeling it was an attack on my manhood but its not often someone is prepared to come to a new forum and make that kind of commitment because most people would be unsure and worried how people may respond ....so it was a refreshing and unexpected post to see

 

Yet as I mentioned earlier you not arrogant or come across as condescending ( this is my issue at times  )  You support the Republicans which is not uncommon on this forum but you not prone to hyperbole, like where you can recognize that the media houses are not all completely false or report news disingenuously 

 

Sorry to ask you another question but  you are new to this forum and you still seem to talk to me  ...dont believe what you hear about me, my mother says Im a nice person 

 

In your opinion dont you think there is a degree of unnecessary or unreasonable  criticism towards Hilary on this thread? I understand some people just  dont like her.....but if you look at the last couple of pages it seems extreme ....irrepressible 

 

Now of course I may be over sensitive which is possible but I dont think I am?

 

You mentioned you are like a nomad, where would you go to after this and why do you move around forums. Do you prefer not becoming complacent on one place?

[BruceVC]

 

That's fine, I wasn't particularly trying to argue, just surprised you have libertarian believes.

 

Yeah, that seems weird to me because we've had these discussions for years.  My big beliefs all line up pretty well with the Libertarian party:

 

1.  Get rid of Patriot Act and its big brother offspring.

2.  Stop freaking out about immigration.

3.  Gay marriage is cool.

 

Only thing I get nervous about is lack of corporate oversight, but considering they control the government now, I'm not really worried it wil get worse.

 

Hurlshot to be fair to WOD he wasnt coming across as dismissive. You guys sometimes seem to misunderstand each other and I know WOD sometimes says things which concern you but he is consistent in his views. Once you get to know him he isnt a surprise which does count for something

[Hiro Protagonist]

The airbrushed 4/5 view Hillary poster is also reminiscent of nazi (specifically SS) propaganda posters too, such as those for the Nordic Legion. Normally I'd say that it's a common propaganda shot but a search for SS propaganda posters uses that particular angle extensively while the equivalent searches for US or British have almost none with the similar angle. Soviet propaganda posters on the other hand also use that angle extensively, though not as extensively.

 

(Specifically the Hillary one made me think of Reinhardt Heydrich who had a penchant for publicity shots that look very similar to it just with things like a swastika as a 'halo' instead of US flag style stripes. Then again, if you can say nothing else positive about nazis at least they had a great PR department that made them look cool)

 

It's also reminiscent of Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao. But mostly Mao for me.

 

 

[Hastur]

I'm way too boring to discuss in this thread. Seriously, and do not take this as a complaint, but I feel guilty distracting from folks' political debate.

 

However, I will tell you that I don't think you're a troll, Bruce, and I wouldn't care if you were. You have a viewpoint and you express it. That's pretty much what we're all doing. If you aim to elicit a response, that's only natural. Why discuss things on a message board if you don't want to hear what other people have to say? If that's you're view, why post in a forum? Why not just blog about your views?

 

As for Hillary, I think she's as corrupt as a three dollar bill. I believe her to be devoid of scruples and intent on her personal agenda. So, if she's elected president, I will respond by:

 

Referring to her as President Clinton

Praying for her good health

Respecting her if ever I am to meet her by addressing her as Madame President and treating her with the dignity due her station

and reminding conservative friends that, no matter how terrible she is, no good can come to us from harm to her.

 

...But don't hold harsh criticism of politicians against the people in this thread, either about Trump or Hillary. The fact is, this is the perfect place to vent steam. Forums like this are great safety valves to let out some crazy and retain your sanity. We're human beings, by God, and we need to have safe place to bitch about things. Write an angry post! Don't strap on a suicide vest! That would be my slogan were I to run for president.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Hastur

[Namutree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF2mFs_rxDg

 

It doesn't really suit Trump.

 

"Fight for the rights of every man" <- That ain't Trump. Trump is too much of nationalist to give a crap about the rights of foreigners. It's that, "Let's fight for others!" mentality that drives neocon foreign policy to a certain extent. 

[BruceVC]

 

The airbrushed 4/5 view Hillary poster is also reminiscent of nazi (specifically SS) propaganda posters too, such as those for the Nordic Legion. Normally I'd say that it's a common propaganda shot but a search for SS propaganda posters uses that particular angle extensively while the equivalent searches for US or British have almost none with the similar angle. Soviet propaganda posters on the other hand also use that angle extensively, though not as extensively.

 

(Specifically the Hillary one made me think of Reinhardt Heydrich who had a penchant for publicity shots that look very similar to it just with things like a swastika as a 'halo' instead of US flag style stripes. Then again, if you can say nothing else positive about nazis at least they had a great PR department that made them look cool)

 

It's also reminiscent of Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao. But mostly Mao for me.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailypress.net/page/content.detail/id/1226760/Australian-leader-launches-inquiry-into-teen-detainee-abuse.html?isap=1&nav=5048

 

Hiro I see the abuse of immigrants and non-white people has reached boiling point in Oz  .....you guys need to address this. Its getting out of hand....at least the new PM seems to care?

[Hiro Protagonist]

It doesn't really suit Trump.

 

"Fight for the rights of every man" <- That ain't Trump. Trump is too much of nationalist to give a crap about the rights of foreigners. It's that, "Let's fight for others!" mentality that drives neocon foreign policy to a certain extent. 

 

I thought the message of the video is fight for American rights since that's what he's been saying in person and the video shows American icons. I don't see other countries shown in the video.

[BruceVC]

 

The problem is Snowden claims he  did what he did because people 'have thje right to know'; when the govt'  is doing  secretive and uncool things behind their back. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT RUSSIA AND PUTIN IS KNOWN TO DO REPEATEDLY. Yet, Snowden rushes all the way there. Now, why? Because Russia is the symbol of purity? I bet he made a deal with them to give them  secret info to use against the US. I bet he is the one who gave Russia their intel on Hillary and the  DNC. LMAO

 

It is like me saying murdering is wrong and person a is bad... but I tunr around and support person b who also a murderer. WUT?

Volo I missed this post earlier but this is a very accurate assessment of Snowden, its more or less what I think

 

I say to people " volo has very good views on certain global events and at times he makes cogent points when he wants to ....he is  not a troll " 

 

People dont believe me  because they are use to the  other volo which is where you seem to be inconsistent but its clear you do follow politics so it always surprises me why you dont just stay as this volo?

[BruceVC]

I'm way too boring to discuss in this thread. Seriously, and do not take this as a complaint, but I feel guilty distracting from folks' political debate.

 

However, I will tell you that I don't think you're a troll, Bruce, and I wouldn't care if you were. You have a viewpoint and you express it. That's pretty much what we're all doing. If you aim to elicit a response, that's only natural. Why discuss things on a message board if you don't want to hear what other people have to say? If that's you're view, why post in a forum? Why not just blog about your views?

 

As for Hillary, I think she's as corrupt as a three dollar bill. I believe her to be devoid of scruples and intent on her personal agenda. So, if she's elected president, I will respond by:

 

Referring to her as President Clinton

Praying for her good health

Respecting her if ever I am to meet her by addressing her as Madame President and treating her with the dignity due her station

and reminding conservative friends that, no matter how terrible she is, no good can come to us from harm to her.

 

...But don't hold harsh criticism of politicians against the people in this thread, either about Trump or Hillary. The fact is, this is the perfect place to vent steam. Forums like this are great safety valves to let out some crazy and retain your sanity. We're human beings, by God, and we need to have safe place to bitch about things. Write an angry post! Don't strap on a suicide vest! That would be my slogan were I to run for president.

How did you know I was going to ask you if you thought I was a troll.....I was going to ask a similar question but only later

 

But yes I try to come across like you said, obviously at times we all can be a little condescending but I think everyone is like that at times?

 

Okay thanks for the input on Hilary, I wont over analyze peoples comments then 

[Hastur]

Well, I read the posts and see the troll accusations thrown around. Just to clarify, I said don't judge people too harshly. I didn't say you couldn't lovingly bash them once in a while. Anyhow, I'm the new guy. Not my place to advise anyone about anything.

 

I don't know if Trump is a nationalist or not. I've honestly thought the whole time that he didn't think he'd get this far and it all kind of ended up the way it did. Stranger things have happened. This election is really on its ear. I'm probably the most pessimistic about the future that I've ever been. Typically, we so called conservatives were always the optimists. Now the Democrats claim optimism, but they aren't really optimists. The only good line in Hillary's speech was that we were no longer Morning in America, but instead were Midnight, but her comment meant to point her finger at Trump, which is fine, but she should have been pointing at herself with her thumb at the same time. Aw well, time for a beer, methinks. Enough of this navel gazing crap. Time to get hammered and bet on something more rational the presidential election, like who's going to be the next Pope.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Hastur

[BruceVC]

Well, I read the posts and see the troll accusations thrown around. Just to clarify, I said don't judge people too harshly. I didn't say you couldn't lovingly bash them once in a while. Anyhow, I'm the new guy. Not my place to advise anyone about anything.

 

I don't know if Trump is a nationalist or not. I've honestly thought the whole time that he didn't think he'd get this far and it all kind of ended up the way it did. Stranger things have happened. This election is really on its ear. I'm probably the most pessimistic about the future that I've ever been. Typically, we so called conservatives were always the optimists. Now the Democrats claim optimism, but they aren't really optimists. The only good line in Hillary's speech was that we were no longer Morning in America, but instead were Midnight, but her comment meant to point her finger at Trump, which is fine, but she should have been pointing at herself with her thumb at the same time. Aw well, time for a beer, methinks. Enough of this navel gazing crap. Time to get hammered and bet on something more rational the presidential election, like who's going to be the next Pope.

Hastur I want to tell you something interesting, the software we sell and implement in the banking sector comes from the USA. Its a global company with the HQ in the USA. Once a year we use to go to Vegas for a partner symposium. So at least every third day I am interacting with Americans around  sales  workshops or things like technical updates and issues

 

We also talk politics, in this one state there 5 guys ....3 Dems and 2 Rep and everyone of them has told me the same thing basically you have, this is the most depressed they have ever felt about the USA

 

But I want to tell you something that hopefully will make you feel better, it made them feel better when we were told it 

 

But I am taking a lady friend out now so I'll update you later

[Darkpriest]

So another leak in favor of Trump. I can;t wait till Trump wins... oh just to see the EU reaction :D

[Bartimaeus]

What's the newest leak? Reddit is usually my source of news, but stuff has been getting increasingly censored there recently...

[Blarghagh]

So another leak in favor of Trump. I can;t wait till Trump wins... oh just to see the EU reaction :D

 

*shrug* It's their funeral regardless of who gets elected this time. I can't see the difference between someone who willingly destroys the country or one who does so out of utter stupidity. I don't agree with Guard Dog on a lot, but this time I'm pretty sure everyone's better off voting Libertarian.

Edited July 30, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[Gorth]

Why do I get the feeling Hastur is Eldars alt?...

[Ganrich]

 

 

So another leak in favor of Trump. I can;t wait till Trump wins... oh just to see the EU reaction :D

*shrug* It's their funeral regardless of who gets elected this time. I can't see the difference between someone who willingly destroys the country or one who does so out of utter stupidity. I don't agree with Guard Dog on a lot, but this time I'm pretty sure everyone's better off voting Libertarian.

As a fairly heavily leaning libertarian myself, this election is one of the few I can think of where the libertarian is the only option you could vote for that isn't foaming at the mouth insane.

 

If Johnson could do half of what he has been talking about then I think the country (the rest of the world too when you think of his desire to stop the interventions the USAs so well known for) would benefit.

 

On a side note: people are still doing the Hitler/Trump comparison. I'm not arguing that the parallels aren't there. I would like to say that Big Govenment is a natural habitat for power hungry people. If this country keeps voting candidates (in all federal and state positions) that support growing the Federal government then they have no right to complain when someone with bad intentions inevitably gets elected and causes a catastrophe. We need these centralized institutions to shrink, and transfer a lot of Federal power into the states. Not all people in politics are benign, and eventually someone stupid or crazy will get power. I worry we are staring that possibility (more likely a probability) right in the face in this election.

 

There was a documentary I watched a while back, and I can't remember the name or I'd find it and link it. If I do find it I will. They discussed the concept of "big is bad". It pointed out that most the tragedies we face from corporations stem from them trying to grow past their natural ceiling via mergers, acquisitions, and new business branches. It's fine when Nike just makes shoes, but when their drive to increase profits expand into many other products (socks, T-shirts, etc, etc) and then their profits level eventually they can't grow too much more and start cutting corners by creating sweat shops and other morally objectable things.

 

They liken it to cancer by saying that once cancer starts growing past a certain point it starts interrupting normal functions and that leads to death. Not saying a little cancer is good, but it is a disease that's sole objective is to grow. Which is the point.

 

I'm not saying this documentary is fact, but it's interesting to ponder. I also think it is something that is 100% applicable to a centralized government.

 

Just my 2 libertarian leaning cents.

[Guard Dog]

Well said Sir! The US Constitution is very clear on what the responsibilities of the Federal government are and which branch is supposed to execute each. It specifically remands all other functions of government to the State governments. Beginning with FDR, (well really with Wilson but FDR hit the gas) the Federal government began usurping power from the state houses. It has been progressing slowly since. Now under Obama the Executive Branch is usurping power from the Legislature. We haven't had a "Palpatine" moment but one wonders if it is becoming inevitable.  

[Darkpriest]

What's the newest leak? Reddit is usually my source of news, but stuff has been getting increasingly censored there recently...

 

not sure if latest, but hacked vociemails with "donors" leaving their expectations regarding favors

[Pidesco]

Vote libertarian:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Psp0A-zJgU

[Bartimaeus]

is she as obnoxious and horrific as the commercials for her show suggest

 

gotta know before I decide whether to watch this or not

Edited July 30, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

Vote libertarian:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Psp0A-zJgU

Well, look which one got nominated. Of course there is nothing illogical about using the dingbat fringe of the movement as a measure of the whole movement. Just ask the Democrats: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/photos-soviet-flags-fly-proudly-dnc-convention-march-philly/

 

[Raithe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HYe9VdOGIQ