Frontline Rogue?

[Seager00]

Hey guys, I've only been playing a few days so I'm still a huge noob, but I'm wondering if a frontline rogue is possible or if they're too squishy. I've been looking over these boards and it seems the consensus is that rogues suck and any builds for them are total glass cannons or ranged, which isn't really what I'd like. Any tips/advice for me here?

[Blades of Vanatar]

Not true. Add a shield and a breastplate with any of the Sabers. He still kicks butt. The Devil of Caroc is a perfect example.

[nem0]

They got buffed pretty significantly in the recent beta update, but they are still kind of underpowered.  They can do a lot of single target damage but have almost no aoe, lowest deflect base, and health.  Frontline rogue is fine you just have to micro them a lot and have other tanks to engage first.  They get a lot of "get out of jail" abilities if they get in trouble so it isn't too hard to keep them alive later on.

[Loren Tyr]

Agreed, you can certainly make it work. They'll never be the tankiest of tanks of course, but you can make them plenty of sturdy enough to survive. Also keep in mind that a rogue doesn't necessarily need to invest in Might to deal good damage, so you can consider investing some more attribute points (and item attribute bonuses/slots) in for example Constitution. 

[MasterCipher]

If you don't mind micro play style, rogues are fine frontline. Enemy AI will pick on your rogue because he has lower deflection than your tank, but if rogue picks on the enemies that are prone, stunned, or paralyzed they don't hit back. Rogues have superb accuracy and unmatched damage modifiers which allow them to deal reliable, very high single target DPS. They can also deal unusually high ranged and AoE damage via scrolls and items that cast spells.

[Gorionsson]

Yes, perfectly doable. I'm playing one right now.

 

In most situations, you don't even need a shield. Ok to DW in plate.

Statwise, put points into CON. Leave RES at base,- your deflection will never be high enough, anyway. 

Go for DR:

In plate, and with a DR enhancing item. (blunting belt perhaps). 

Healing boots from the Knights (Need good might for this).

Use companions that can enable sneak attacks for you. (Fighter knockdown, Wiz slicken). 

 

Most things will be dead long before they can really hurt you. 

 

Try not to get surrounded, you will still die for sure. (Especially on POTD). 

[Boeroer]

You can build a solid front line rogue with a shield (preferably with bash), go for max deflection and a high crit chance and use Riposte. It used to be bad, but now it's good. Your deflection will never be as high as with fighters, chanters, paladins or monks, but it's good enough to receive a lot of grazes instead of hits, which is great for Riposte now because it triggers on 30% of grazes and 20% of misses with a Full Attack (hence the bash). Heavy armor is recommended - later on you can use medium armor or even light one (depends on other frontliners who might also take some heat).

 

It works quite well - and if you want to have more flexibility it's also not bad to take quick switch and use a dual wielding setup (without Two Weapon Style) when you're not targeted and want to use your special Full Attacks like BLinding Strike and quickly switch to the shield when you get hit more often. It works, it's flexible and powerful enough while removing the need to constantly watch out for your rogue who would get smashed otherwise. Later on, go for Badgradr's Barricade (bashing shield which triggers Thrust of Tattered Veils every time the bash crits - that works with Deathblows) plus Godansthunyr war hammer. You can retraint then and remove Quick Switch because you will hardly need the dual weapon setup any more (but Quick Switch can still be nice for shooting stuff at the start of the combat. Penetrating Shot also works with Thrust of Tattered Veils by the way without slowing you down in melee - so maybe you want to take that, too). You will most likely stun and then trigger Thrust with every Riposte and every special Full Attack as well as with your normal attacks. It's a very balanced and powerful setup: sturdy enough to be a light tank and enough damage to be a great single target dps and an ok kind of passive AoE dps guy (via Riposte).

 

To increase your defenses and crit chances you can late on use the Executionier's Hood (frightens = -10 ACC for your foes in an AoE), use Glittering Gauntlets (daze on hit - ACC debuff doesn't stack with Frightened) and Binding Rope (retaliate with stuck affliction - stacks with stunned from Godansthunyr I think - lots of crits will follow).

 

There's another way to generate a lot of Ripostes with this build: stack as much defense against disengagement attacks as possible (cape or boots or armor enchantment +15, Fast Runner +5, Graceful Retreat +12 - even get a chanter who sings the 2nd level chant "Fow runs and leaps": +10) and you will have a +42 deflection bonus against disengagement attacks. Then run around the enemies all the time to provoke disengagement attacks (don't do that against foes with very high ACC). This way you can totally dump DEX, take Vulnerable Attack, Cautious Attack, put on the thickest armor - your attack rate doesn't matter. What matters is your defelction and your chance to trigger Ripostes. Some healing over time like Veteran's Recovery helps here. You will only do damage while Riposting disengagement attacks, but also will stuck a lot of enemies who hit you so that they can't reach your party members. Most of the enemies are dumb and want to follow you while you run past them - so you're like a living CC effect, preventing them to move towards your squishier fellows. It's like attacking while moving. It's quite fun and it works but also requires a lot of micromanagement. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Boeroer

[Stasis_Sword]

A lot of it depends on how you define frontline. If you have two other tankier characters (fighter, paladin, monk, armored chanter) you can usually get away with dual wielding in light armor and flanking targets. If you actually want the rogue to be one of the tankier characters holding the line then go with Boeroer's suggestions.

 

Personally if I'm looking for a character who can soak up damage and pick locks I think a chanter works better. When I have rogues in my party (which I often do) it's because I want them to be quick attacking DPS machines and I usually go with a flanking build.

 

Regardless of build I highly recommend: reckless assault (+accuracy, +20% damage), dirty fighting (+crit), deathblows (+50% damage when target has 2 afflictions). For the rogue to reach it's damage potential you need a way to put afflictions on enemies so that you get the +100% damage bonus from sneak attack and death blows.

[mosspit]

So... how viable is a riposte rogue tank for signature fights? I like the concept of it, but I would think there will be some issues. Riposte is nice for extra dmg but it doesn't mitigate dmg by itself, and for a class with not many class specific defensive options.. And rogue has low base health (low modifier to Health per Con) so the rogue could run the risk of running out of HP even if sufficient healing is provided, especially for lengthy fights.

 

I am guessing it suitable of more of an off-tank position?

[Boeroer]

I wouldn't put him in the postion of a main tank or anything like that.

 

But I played a Godansthunyr + Badgradr's Barricade Devil of Caroc and she was absolutely great. One of the best* rogues I played so far. She was in the front line but didn't engage first, so she didn't receive the main heat, but you didn't have to watch out all the time for her. She did great damage (also because of the shield's spell striking for sure which was kind of guarantieed once the target wa stunned by Godansthunyr or debuffed otherwise) because she seldomly went down and didn't have to position herself all the time but could just start hitting. I never had any health issues with her at all. Back then (3.0) Riposte was still crap, so I didn't take it, but now I would use it. Her deflection was high enough to receive a lot of grazes instead of hits, and her DR was high enough to make sure those grazes only did MIN damage most of the time. 

 

However, I also playtested this disenganging riposte build a was talking about - thas one might run into health problems because he receives a lot of grazes. But you can alsways stop running around the mob an retreat and play him as an offtank until nest rest.

 

edit: *) by "best" I don't mean best dps or whatever, but the best overall experience, including micro, fun, style and so on.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Yeah I kinda figured that, so an off-tank position then. As a main tank the health issue could come in during signature fights. 

[Boeroer]

You can always sip a potion of Infuse with VItal Essence at the start of tougher fights. It helps a lot to counter the health loss between resting. But still this is not suitable as a main tank. You would have to come up with some neat trick to make a rogue the main tank I guess (which I didn't figure out yet).  The combination of low deflection and low endurance/health is indeed a hinderance.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Hmmm actually the Vita Essence potions are not a bad idea.  at least for those mid tier fights.Rather chug those then setting up rest camps. Guess my main tank is gonna be Eder... those new 3.0x abilities are quite sick.

[Boeroer]

I still don't like fighters too much - but to each his own.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Well a pally can be a solid (and arguably better) tank. A tank with great support abilities, saves, immolation, early Outworn Buckler the whole shebang. But I played a main tank pally for the past 2 playthroughs (more if I considered my failed playthroughs too) so a Fighter tank doesn't seem like a bad idea.

[Kingsman]

Hey guys, I've only been playing a few days so I'm still a huge noob, but I'm wondering if a frontline rogue is possible or if they're too squishy. I've been looking over these boards and it seems the consensus is that rogues suck and any builds for them are total glass cannons or ranged, which isn't really what I'd like. Any tips/advice for me here?

Frontline rogue is possible. I have played a rogue as my main almost every play through I have played. You will slowly start building up your defences as the game goes on and there are a few really good buffs from ciphers and priests that make rogues survivable.

 

What I am 100% certain on and this is really good advice especially if your new: having two dedicated tanks on POTD (e,g fighters or paladins), makes POTD wayyyyyyyyy easier. This does not stop you from having a rogue as well though.