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I hate the gold system. Let me buy the game.


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Haha, you are right with the OCD part.

 

but Obsidian is milking the OCDness by creating a blackhole of RNG treasure chests that is meant to suck your money.

 

It already is pretty bad that not all cards have been implemented, and not properly communicated. I feel bad for those who have already spent real money on chests hoping to collect the whole set. For me I have only spent hours of my time. But still...

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I had a stray thought yesterday from this conversation. I've already paid for the rest of the season. For the future, they will have a couple of options: 1) Add the new scenarios into the same app, keep the gold system; 2) Create a new separate app; 3) Scrap the project.

 

In case of decision 1, why would I pay $25 for season 2?

 

I'm pretty certain that it always will be option 1. I fully expect at some point to be offered to pay $25 for Skulls & Shackles, and another $25 for Wrath of the Righteous. I could also imagine the class decks to be added to the game, or other ways to add more than the existing 11 characters.

 

Why would you pay for that? That is a trick question, because it depends very much on who is "you". If you have little money and lots of time, earning everything with gold sure might be the better option. Other people have more money and less time, so not grinding gold to buy characters and adventures is attractive to those. While the cards from the treasure chests aren't "necessary" to play, they provide more variety, which is nice.

 

Personally I'm perfectly happy to pay $25 for each Adventure Path (hey, I paid over $150 for Rise of the Runelords in card form) and then use the gold I earn on treasure chests.

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I think the true bottom line is some people have OCD and it's killing them that they don't have all the cards. :)

Heh, there's some truth to that, but the real reason I *hate* the current system is - I feel like the game's *punishing* me for playing the *original* game. Right now, whenever I complete a scenario with any party other than the first one I have that lousy "reward: 0 gold" laughing in my face, and suggesting I should add submissive masochism to my OCD by playing Obsidian's crappy Legendary mode - which somehow appears to be promoted as "the one true mode* by being singularly worthy of repeated Gold reward.

 

When the game came out, it was a bit more manageable - you had different difficulties that gave scaling rewards, so at least it felt *natural* (though *Heroic* still was the unwanted step child, that anyone ever played just to unlock Legendary). Then, among the first changes they released to the game (as opposed to, I don't know - fix the friggin' Seelah?) was their Gold 'rebalance', where suddenly anyone playing on Normal or Heroic was even more of a chump. Mind you, this was a conscious decision, so apparently someone thought this will improve monetization, аnd the only logic I can see is - "People who can't handle/can't be bothered with Legendary will be pressed into paying"; I probably don't need to explain everything that's wrong with that notion. I don't know who came up with the current system but it was definitely not their brightest moment. I'm running 6 parties at the moment, and the fact that 5 of them don't earn any gold rewards has completely desensitized me to the whole system.

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The time that devs don't have to spend on the forum is a time they can spend on fixing the game.

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what he said

yep!

 

I don't care about extra cards or the rest. I have over 10 thousand points I haven't use so far. On the very first day of release, I bought the whole xpac bundle. I played with every character and have gone into the 3rd xpac without any real rancor. I haven't had time until this week to play as much as I would like, but I've invested many enjoyable hours in the game hitherto. However, I detest the idea of the 'bragging rights' gamers. To be clear, before someone beats his chests and calls me out as the lamer I must truly be if I don't want to beat every game with a one legged blind orc armed with nothing but his -3 intellect and a dull spoon, I've enjoyed all the ol' skool games and beaten them as they were crafted. I just think the emphasis on primate chest beating has taken precedence over fun. To be clear, I believe, genuinely so, that a significant portion (although not the majority, and not so by a tremendous margin) of the forumites have fallen into the 'bragging rights' crowd. I want fun, and I want challenge, but I've enjoyed the actual card game. I don't need Obsidian deciding to 'improve' the mechanics for 'my sake.'

 

Overall, I don't mind the legendary and other changes to the game, but I will make increasing noise if it goes overboard. For example, I guess the change to the card that allows me to shuffle blessings back into the blessing's deck isn't so bad... magic candle or something like that... but I also don't think it was necessary. Once again, it was just Obsidian's heavy hand telling me that the game I love is somehow substandard. I don't really mind it in terms of the mechanics, but I see it as a sign of things to come and I don't like it at all.

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I'm pretty certain that it always will be option 1. I fully expect at some point to be offered to pay $25 for Skulls & Shackles, and another $25 for Wrath of the Righteous. I could also imagine the class decks to be added to the game, or other ways to add more than the existing 11 characters.

 

Why would you pay for that? That is a trick question, because it depends very much on who is "you". If you have little money and lots of time, earning everything with gold sure might be the better option. Other people have more money and less time, so not grinding gold to buy characters and adventures is attractive to those. While the cards from the treasure chests aren't "necessary" to play, they provide more variety, which is nice.

 

Personally I'm perfectly happy to pay $25 for each Adventure Path (hey, I paid over $150 for Rise of the Runelords in card form) and then use the gold I earn on treasure chests.

 

Perhaps. However I fully expect that I will have excess gold left over after my season 1 ends. If I'm not interested in playing the CCG lottery (which I find frustrating personally) after I have a full enough set of "epic cards" (1 of each is plenty), why would I buy subscription #2? I'm not complaining, except from the stand-point that I want Obsidian to be successful.

 

I mean if I don't care about the chests, since I've already bought 2*48 packs, 2*10 packs, and several "singles" and am sitting on gold right now, I'd have already been able to pay for everything I've gotten to this point. Basically the game is free if you enjoy it, you have to pay if you don't play as much seems backwards to me.

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This thread is what annoys me.

 

There will always be people who want EVERYTHING for nothing, and yes, that is what you people are asking. For $25 you bought the ENTIRE RotR campaign, with Promos and the Addon. You can't even buy the base set for that, AND you don't need to get a gaming group together to play.

 

I understand the OCDishness for ALL the bonus content, I was a good little M:tG slave for many years. But if you have that level of need, then it is YOUR problem to deal with it, not Obsidian's, and it is their right as a business to make some money off of it. BUT they still give you the option to earn it all for free by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!

 

As for all the other bellyaching on this forum, Yes, it would have been awesome if the app wasn't this buggy. Yes, it is unfortunate that all these bugs made it through V&V and Q&A. But I have dealt with quite a few companies with testing, including the one I currently work at, and of all of them weren't as forthcoming, as committed to ironing out and investigating every issue, and as publicly responsive as Obsidian (with the exception of my workplace, where i can walk up to people's workspaces and annoy them).

 

TL;DR: Quit whining, you are getting more than you paid for.

 

:deadhorse:

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This thread is what annoys me.

 

There will always be people who want EVERYTHING for nothing, and yes, that is what you people are asking. For $25 you bought the ENTIRE RotR campaign, with Promos and the Addon. You can't even buy the base set for that, AND you don't need to get a gaming group together to play.

 

I understand the OCDishness for ALL the bonus content, I was a good little M:tG slave for many years. But if you have that level of need, then it is YOUR problem to deal with it, not Obsidian's, and it is their right as a business to make some money off of it. BUT they still give you the option to earn it all for free by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!

 

As for all the other bellyaching on this forum, Yes, it would have been awesome if the app wasn't this buggy. Yes, it is unfortunate that all these bugs made it through V&V and Q&A. But I have dealt with quite a few companies with testing, including the one I currently work at, and of all of them weren't as forthcoming, as committed to ironing out and investigating every issue, and as publicly responsive as Obsidian (with the exception of my workplace, where i can walk up to people's workspaces and annoy them).

 

TL;DR: Quit whining, you are getting more than you paid for.

 

:deadhorse:

Hmm that doesn't look a horse to me. A goat more like 8)
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This thread is what annoys me.

 

There will always be people who want EVERYTHING for nothing, and yes, that is what you people are asking. For $25 you bought the ENTIRE RotR campaign, with Promos and the Addon. You can't even buy the base set for that, AND you don't need to get a gaming group together to play.

 

I understand the OCDishness for ALL the bonus content, I was a good little M:tG slave for many years. But if you have that level of need, then it is YOUR problem to deal with it, not Obsidian's, and it is their right as a business to make some money off of it. BUT they still give you the option to earn it all for free by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!

 

As for all the other bellyaching on this forum, Yes, it would have been awesome if the app wasn't this buggy. Yes, it is unfortunate that all these bugs made it through V&V and Q&A. But I have dealt with quite a few companies with testing, including the one I currently work at, and of all of them weren't as forthcoming, as committed to ironing out and investigating every issue, and as publicly responsive as Obsidian (with the exception of my workplace, where i can walk up to people's workspaces and annoy them).

 

TL;DR: Quit whining, you are getting more than you paid for.

 

:deadhorse:

Hmm that doesn't look a horse to me. A goat more like 8)

 

 

It is a hybrid I call a "gorse".

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This thread is what annoys me.

 

There will always be people who want EVERYTHING for nothing, and yes, that is what you people are asking. For $25 you bought the ENTIRE RotR campaign, with Promos and the Addon. You can't even buy the base set for that, AND you don't need to get a gaming group together to play.

 

I understand the OCDishness for ALL the bonus content, I was a good little M:tG slave for many years. But if you have that level of need, then it is YOUR problem to deal with it, not Obsidian's, and it is their right as a business to make some money off of it. BUT they still give you the option to earn it all for free by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!

 

As for all the other bellyaching on this forum, Yes, it would have been awesome if the app wasn't this buggy. Yes, it is unfortunate that all these bugs made it through V&V and Q&A. But I have dealt with quite a few companies with testing, including the one I currently work at, and of all of them weren't as forthcoming, as committed to ironing out and investigating every issue, and as publicly responsive as Obsidian (with the exception of my workplace, where i can walk up to people's workspaces and annoy them).

 

TL;DR: Quit whining, you are getting more than you paid for.

 

:deadhorse:

For someone who feels entitled to tell people to "stop whining", I sure hope you start reading the threads you comment on. No one is asking to get the Treasure cards for free. It was exactly the opposite - people wanted to have an option to BUY the Treasures at a flat price, in case they're not interested in absurd grinding and in the ridiculous  Legendary difficulty.

 

Also, I apologize for not having handy a sarcastic "completely missing the point" emoticon.

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You can use the 'Mark Solved' button beneath a post that answers your topic or confirms it's not a bug.

The time that devs don't have to spend on the forum is a time they can spend on fixing the game.

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For someone who feels entitled to tell people to "stop whining", I sure hope you start reading the threads you comment on. No one is asking to get the Treasure cards for free. It was exactly the opposite - people wanted to have an option to BUY the Treasures at a flat price, in case they're not interested in absurd grinding and in the ridiculous  Legendary difficulty.

 

Also, I apologize for not having handy a sarcastic "completely missing the point" emoticon.

 

No kidding. I am actually arguing for the exact opposite of what KGK is complaining about. I want the game to be less FTP, yet friendlier to those who paid $25. Literally the opposite of 'everything for nothing'.

 

I kinda feel like a chump at this point for supporting the game when it is so FTP friendly. For devs that should be a serious problem moving forward. At this point were I to recommend this to a friend I would actually recommend not to pay $25, I would recommend questing with the free characters, unlocking as you gained gold, and ignoring the chests. 

 

Edit: Perhaps when folks come later to the game (say when adventure 6 is released) they might want to pay to catchup and bring out the credit card. However I did all of Deck 3 normal with all characters, hard and legendary with those I wanted by Sunday morning. Since I am in Europe it was released Saturday morning for me. However Quest mode is such a grind that I would still recommend not paying unless the economics changes. 

Edited by Kamikazi
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This thread is what annoys me.

 

There will always be people who want EVERYTHING for nothing, and yes, that is what you people are asking. For $25 you bought the ENTIRE RotR campaign, with Promos and the Addon. You can't even buy the base set for that, AND you don't need to get a gaming group together to play.

 

I understand the OCDishness for ALL the bonus content, I was a good little M:tG slave for many years. But if you have that level of need, then it is YOUR problem to deal with it, not Obsidian's, and it is their right as a business to make some money off of it. BUT they still give you the option to earn it all for free by ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME!

 

As for all the other bellyaching on this forum, Yes, it would have been awesome if the app wasn't this buggy. Yes, it is unfortunate that all these bugs made it through V&V and Q&A. But I have dealt with quite a few companies with testing, including the one I currently work at, and of all of them weren't as forthcoming, as committed to ironing out and investigating every issue, and as publicly responsive as Obsidian (with the exception of my workplace, where i can walk up to people's workspaces and annoy them).

 

TL;DR: Quit whining, you are getting more than you paid for.

 

:deadhorse:

For someone who feels entitled to tell people to "stop whining", I sure hope you start reading the threads you comment on. No one is asking to get the Treasure cards for free. It was exactly the opposite - people wanted to have an option to BUY the Treasures at a flat price, in case they're not interested in absurd grinding and in the ridiculous  Legendary difficulty.

 

Also, I apologize for not having handy a sarcastic "completely missing the point" emoticon.

 

 

Post # 2 in the thread, and a good chunk of the 2nd page are dedicated to what I am saying (granted looking back on it now it is all the same person). And it's not just this thread, this has come up a few times before.

 

And as for Kamikazi's posts, my take away after reading them was that you wanted MORE from the season pass so that it would be more exclusive from FTP. IMO that falls under the same umbrella.

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Agreed Kami, as somebody who wants to play later pathfinder card games, like skull and shackles etc. On the app, I am worried that the f2p allowance, combined with low price on the season pass, will leave this a dead game in nothing flat.

 

I personally feel that nothing about the game but the first 2 characters should be free. The later content should only be pay unlock, and the chest content should be available, for purchase, in a non random form.

 

Any claims that I'm saying the season pass should have more for the price are just ignoring posts to argue against an imagined enemy.

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As (I believe) the main full f2p player posting in this thread, I completely agree about the gold aspect. Gold is way too easy to get right now and frankly they need to worry less about what difficulty people are farming gold on and more how just plain easy it is to get gold right now, period. As I said somewhere above, barring just wanting to "support the product" I honestly don't see why you'd pay money for this game right now. Take the price point argument out of it, it's just super easy to get everything for free.

 

This isn't on the players. Obsidian designed the game this way, nobody's cheating (as far as I know) - it's not on me to say that I must give them money or they might not be able to sustain their business model. If they designed something unsustainable it's up to them to fix that, otherwise I'm going to assume they are making enough money and know what they are doing.

 

But even beyond all that, this isn't FarmVille or clash of clans. The whole in game gold system feels really out of place to me and maybe I wouldn't have bought the game if there hadn't been a free option. But I might have, so they might have at least gotten some money from me that way. This all or nothing system that they have right now needs some work, I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that.

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And as for Kamikazi's posts, my take away after reading them was that you wanted MORE from the season pass so that it would be more exclusive from FTP. IMO that falls under the same umbrella.

 

 

Hopefully I am advocating having roughly a similar payout for pay players, not more, just smoothed out. Of course on the Internet it is often hard to discern agendas. Roughly I'd like everything more expensive, but subscribers to have that difference made up with either a daily rewards system (that actually encourages long term adherence), or at the very least the ability to earn gold offline. We've already paid the maximum reasonable amount for the season, rely on us to not be cheaters at that point.

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Agreed Kami, as somebody who wants to play later pathfinder card games, like skull and shackles etc. On the app, I am worried that the f2p allowance, combined with low price on the season pass, will leave this a dead game in nothing flat.

 

I personally feel that nothing about the game but the first 2 characters should be free. The later content should only be pay unlock, and the chest content should be available, for purchase, in a non random form.

 

Any claims that I'm saying the season pass should have more for the price are just ignoring posts to argue against an imagined enemy.

 

Of course the devs can do what they like. I'd even throw in a third "random" character at a reasonable price and possibly Scenarios B-2. After that, pony up the cash, or grind away hard if the devs want to be nice to the folks who actually cannot afford the purchase price.

 

I am sure that the season pass costs will be discounted at some point. One of the most annoying thing about another game I paid for, Sentinels of the Multiverse, was that the season pass was 1/2 off mid way through the first season. And they have a much slower release schedule than Obsidian. Convinced me to never pay them full price if I continue with the game. Give me a reason to buy in at full price! Treasure chests could fill this role!

 

The treasure chests should be a mechanic to keep the game fresh and to maintain interest during the gaps between releases. Encouraging a flurry of activity for 3 days after release of a new adventure pack then nothing while we wait is not the healthiest it could be. Smooth out the treasure chests please, maintain interest in your product long term. I'd like you guys to stick around for a while, not just be a flash in the pan. It's a great product despite the bugs.

Edited by Kamikazi
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Well, i'm an f2p player also. But i think some of you are missing one important aspect of digital PACG: it's efficient advertising for all printed products - both card game and RPG. I bought entire RotR adventure path after playing digital version for several hours. So why should i pay for digital version also? And I think i'm not alone. Lot of folks will buy paper products after getting familliar with digital game.

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I don't think Pathfinder Adventures targets the same audience as the hundred thousand typical Free2Play games in the App store / Google Play. The game is more complicated than typical Free2Play games, and the $25 bundle somewhat caps the amount of money you can spend on the game, so you don't get the typical "whales" spending hundreds or thousands of dollars and financing the game for the freeloaders. I believe the target audience is rather people who know the physical version. For those, $25 is very cheap compared to the $150+ cost of the equivalent box + packs. And you need less space to set up the game, less shuffling, and each game goes faster.

 

With adventure 4 already marked as "coming June", we should have the complete Rise of the Runelords game by autumn. With some luck we'll get the next adventure path (Skulls & Shackles?) by Christmas. And I'd be happy to pay *another* $25 for a new bundle containing the next adventure path and some more added characters.

 

I do believe that Obsidian has a good monetization strategy where fans of the game like me pay $25 at least once per year for a new adventure path. Converting Free2Play players is only marginal to that business model. That is why the collectible card game aspect of the treasure chest cards feels a bit tacked on rather than at the core of the game.

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Btw Kamikazi, I also play Sentinels and while I agree with you overall on he pricing, what I do like about that product is while the price points are similar, they do have somewhat regular sales on both the base game and the season pass. And you are paying one time and then getting all the stuff. Maybe Obsidian will do occasional sales as well, I think I'd be okay with the pricing if that were the case.

 

And Tobold, that's exactly why I referenced clash of clans in my post. This doesn't have the same target audience and yet the "gold shop" in pathfinder has the same feel to me as when you log into clash or dungeon boss and the ingame store is trying to get you to pay money for gold. I would have much rather they just introduced packs of treasure chest cards as like $5 expansion purchases or something, eliminating both the gold shop and the MtG booster pack randomness that I lost interest in 15 years ago.

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The great part about it is that nothing stops you from having tons of fun with the game if you spend the $25 and just ignore the gold completely. I couldn't even tell you most of the cards I've gotten from the chests truthfully. I haven't been paying much attention to it. It's hard enough to encounter the good cards. You really have to play A LOT to have the correct card come up at the correct time with the correct character that can actually obtain it to get the better cards. Or dump a junk load of blessings at it.

Edited by hfm
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I won't address any comment specifically in this thread. However, you should know that we keep an eye on the threads and take feedback seriously.

 

I will throw in some context. In general, we've come at the business model with the commitment to both get as many people exposed to the game as possible and give PACG fans a way to buy the physical game digitally. The answer to the former was to make it free. The answer to the latter was to create a bundle that gives players access to everything you'd find in PACG: Rise of the Runelords. Between those two answers a system has to exist to allow players to earn content by playing, while also allowing bundle-owners a way to participate in that economy. Thus, we created treasure chests.

 

We are continuing to develop our feature set and store mechanics. What are you seeing now is the beginning. We will be adding more content with each big update. Some of it will be aesthetic, like new dice skins. While others will have gameplay implications like [REDACTED]. I won't rule out offering a deal to purchase a subset of specific cards or offering a way to earn specific cards through gameplay in the future. These are elements that we constantly evaluate with each update. 

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Thank you for the reply Nathan. I was hoping that my concerns were coming across appropriately. I am one of the people for which living card games were a great idea. I would gladly spend freely on static content over random, and these concerns have never been about wanting more for less money, rather more for more money.

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