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I hate the gold system. Let me buy the game.


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So I want to start by saying I love the game itself, and the digital interpretation is great.  It's what I've wanted for years.

 

That said, I utterly hate the gold system and how the game has been monetized.  I also want to say that I hate CCG's too.  I played them a long time ago, and then stopped when I realized that they're just a giant money sink.  When companies like Fantasy Flight started releasing Living Card games, I finally got back into those kind of games, because that's the more honest way of doing it.

 

I'd much, much rather be able to just pay some amount of money, and unlock extra cards.  That's the way it is in the physical game, and I think that should have been kept.   Rather than having to play gamble with unlocking all the extra cards, I should be able to buy the expansions, whether they are characters, class decks, etc.

 

As an aside, I also feel that paying to unlock cards should be the only option.  In an F2P MMO, the free players exist for one purpose, and that's to populate the game world so that the paying players don't stop paying.  They solely exist to enrich the game for the people who pay, and to make the game more popular so it will attract more people who will pay.  That may sound harsh, and I'm sure there are some people out there that play free games that say there's other reasons, but it's all delusion.  There is no company in the world that paid to create a game just so you can play it for free to show off how awesome you are.

 

However, in this game, free players give nothing to paying players.  In fact, they steal from them.  Every free player that plays the game is stealing money from myself, and others who actually pay to unlock the game, and pay to support it, because the price has to be higher to compensate.  Now, I know that there's zero chance that the free option will just vanish and the price will adjust to correct for this, and I know that in the mobile market, people expect games for free (which is a grave that has been dug for many, many years) so I don't expect this to get turned off or anything.

 

However, my original point still stands.  Please allow pure-pay options for me to unlock the entire game without having to play the CCG Gamble silliness  If the free players want to spend their time grinding out gold to eventually unlock everything, that's between them and Obsidian, but please let me purchase card packs so I can just have everything.

 

Also, allow me to buy them so I can disconnect and still have them!  This being constantly online is a giant PITA that came bundled with this F2P Model.  Let me buy the game and call it a day.

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Needed to make an account to reply to this. 

Yes yes and so much yes. I really hope some executive manager is reading this (the chance is close to 0% but I know that it is not the developers of this game who want to implement this stupid system)

Let me say one thing first. The free to play as implemented is actually one of the fairest on the mobile platform. You can try out a rather lengthy demo and by the time you beat the 1st scenario you already have nearly enough money for the 2nd. Want some characters? Well... either buy the full game (so I thought...way for it) or you have to grind for it. This system is implemented to get the people who would not spent 20 bucks on a mobile game to spend at least a little money (the percentage of only-grinders is fairly low). This game is definitely worth 20 dollar. Apart from me owning the card game, it is excellently implemented. It is in fact, THE best card/board game app on the App Store (taking out all the TCG games like Hearthstone). 

 

Sooo... must buy, right? Nope.

 

I can not play this game in the transit or on the plane, which is THE time when I would like to play this game. If I am home, I have my cards/ a console/ my PC. 

 

Furthermore... I buy the game and still am trapped in the gold grind because non-standard items are trapped behind a paywall? Really? 

 

You nearly had a perfect game for people who like role-playing and cards...and some executive greedy prick ruined the game. 

 

Here is how you can help: Help the developers and designer of this game out and leave a bad review. Download the game and make your voice heard. As I said: Nope of the people who made the "item-paywall" decision are going to look in the forum because they don't give a damn about you or the developer. But they sure are going to follow the reason why the reviews for their "investment" is tanking. 

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Hey Arch!

 

If you buy the $25 bundle, it unlocks all 11 characters, all of the adventure decks (including ones yet to be released), and the C-deck. That's essentially the same as buying the game. You can then play offline no problem.

 

I hope that helps you enjoy this amazing implementation of an amazing game!

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That's essentially the same as buying the game. 

 

It's not the same. And it is scary that lot of people seem to think that on this board.

 

You don't get any item better than common, if you "buy" the game. How is this fair?

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The extra cards are exactly that -- extra. They weren't part of the original card game at all, so it makes sense to keep them separate. I wouldn't want all of those cards in the Runelords bundle if I wanted a pure experience to the physical game.

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You make valid points.

I would counter however with the idea that you can pay $24.99 for the whole game.

The treasure chests are just extra for those that want to spend gold.

I've bought like 5, just because, but I'm not trying to "win" at collecting all cards.

I have the game I want to play. I payed for it. The rest is just gravy.

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The treasure cards may seem "extra" to those of us that played the card game, but to someone just starting out on the app, they are part of the game just like anything else. So to spend $25 on the game (which is a good amount for an app) and not get everything could be a little frustrating, now that you pointed it out I can definitely see that.

 

I played MtG when it first came out and dropped a lot of money on random packs and am glad that current card games have moved on from that system as well. I agree, I'd much rather have a system where you drop X dollars and unlock the whole game vs having to piecemeal buy booster packs and hope that the randomness gods favor you that day.

 

The gold system is also very lenient for an app. For most apps, in game money is limited at a certain amount you can get per time period and/or only certain things can be purchased with that and some things are only accessible to real money players. Here, the only limit has been you can't run missions in certain difficulties, which has seemed strange to me from the start.

 

Overall, I am one of those f2p players and I still agree with you. I honestly don't see a reason to drop $25 on this game unless you want to "support the product." And since I don't believe in second guessing game devs or making it my personal mission to throw money at a game just because "programmers need to eat too" I probably won't be paying to play this game. But the thing is, if it had been a decision between dropping $25 or having to go through a long grind where it would have been much harder to unlock content, I might still have not paid the money. As you pointed out, you don't even get everything for the $25, the game isn't as faithful to the card game as I would like, and frankly I think that $25 is a bit high end for a game like this. I mean sure if you compare it to Fallout 4 or Pillars of Eternity, it might seem like a deal, but this is an app game - it's a card game with a fancy UI (and the whole, it's a bargain compared to the card game, argument doesn't hold water with me - that's a completely different animal). So maybe I would have, I'm not sure - but I am somewhat glad I was spared that decison by an easy to acquire in game gold system.

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I like the gold system and the extra cards. I like having something to work for beyond just my parties card's and the rush of opening packs is great. I wouldn't be a fan if it wasn't all extra cards, but the fact that all the core cards are already unlocked and these extra ones are just gravy on top? Love it. 

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You get everything with 25$

There is actually an option to not use those treasure cards in this game because They don't belong it. So you indeed get the whole game with 25$

Think those treasure cards like postcards. You can collect them but you don't need them if you want to play this game as it was planned orinally.

 

Yep, there is not much difference if you buy the game or play it free... I just don't want to grind so I am happy ovner of the whole game by buying that season pack/Bundle what ever. I have better things to do than crind to get basic cards that Are needed to play the game.

So I would happily recommend buying the Bundle if you hate gold system.

 

Is the free to play system too easy at this moment? Most propably, but the dev team in tinkering that too, so it may be more beneficial to be actual ovner of the game later.

 

If people think that treasure cards Are problem, maybe They could include to the Bundle that everyone who buyes whole season pass, will get one legendary item for free / month or 6 times / year or something similar so there would be more difference of playing and not playing. Those legendary postcards Are really hard to farm so it would be really big boon to buy the whole game!

 

But summasummarum: 25$ gives you whole game, all cards, all characters, and so on as it was originally sold as a tabletop game, plus all promo cards that you can not get in the free to play game version, so that is a good deal! Even at this moment...

Edited by Hannibal_PJV
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I agree on adding an explicit offline mode to handle times like trains and planes when I'm not connected (nor interested in paying for a connection at high cost). It could keep track of your accomplishments and then give you rewards when it syncs up. Forced connectivity (barely) makes sense on a PC where bored programmers will work out a way to break the reward system...but really how many folks are going to jailbreak their device just to "win" at PACG?

 

I disagree on the price point: sure $25 is high for an app but who is making you pay it? That's like the equivalent of a movie and a half and I've already probably gotten 7+ hours of enjoyment out of the game. Also you have lots of options at lower costs (buying only the adventurers or decks you want) all the way down to zero. Board game apps in general are more expensive because most of them aren't forced grinds...see Spendor or Catan or Ticket to Ride.

 

The treasure chests don't bother me because nothing I've seen requires them to win. There is small surprise and delight when you swap out Aid for improved Aid but really who cares? I don't have to unlock every card or win every trophy to enjoy an experience.

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That's essentially the same as buying the game. 

 

It's not the same. And it is scary that lot of people seem to think that on this board.

 

You don't get any item better than common, if you "buy" the game. How is this fair?

 

 

EDIT: appears I might be wrong and that there are unique cards that can only be found in the chests! Well, I guess the gold I'm accumulating will actually have a use. I guess it makes sense or else what use would the gold have at all?

Edited by hfm
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That's essentially the same as buying the game. 

 

It's not the same. And it is scary that lot of people seem to think that on this board.

 

You don't get any item better than common, if you "buy" the game. How is this fair?

 

 

EDIT: appears I might be wrong and that there are unique cards that can only be found in the chests! Well, I guess the gold I'm accumulating will actually have a use. I guess it makes sense or else what use would the gold have at all?

 

 

I have to say it is extremely refreshing to see a good discussion about this topic. I was posting a rather emotional message yesterday because I am sooo incredibly disappointed about this game's gold system. It is an incredible well implemented game apart from this.  

 

I have to admit that apparently the extra cards are not part of the normal card game (since you can deactivate them in the menue). So... the extra cards are designed only for the digital games? I can not find a card list online of the physical game so can somebody confirm (check for real and confirm not guess...I would myself but I am not at home for quite some time)? Also... what about playing this game offline. There are actually two truths promoted on this board. Am I able to play the scenarios and play with all characters when I am offline? If yes, that is extremely badly communicated in the game and on the website (maybe underline difference between story mode and quest mode stronger)

 

Again: I think the IAP-system is NEARLY perfect. The gold/time ratio is fair enough. There are a lot of things for grinders to unlock and statistically there will be a lot who spend money who normally would not. 

 

But: If I buy the game, I want the whole game. Give me a base chance on uncommon, rare and legendary items (...I guess in quest mode?!?) even if I decide to not grind the hell out of this game (not have time for this). I want to buy this game. I am actually looking forward to future scenarios and will be more than happy to pay 25 dollar each. Just treat me like a paying customer and not screw me over and force me to use the gold system. Because right now you get 0 dollar (not only from me, I guess, but everybody who expects a full game). 

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If you buy the 25 dollar pack, you get the entirety of the physical game, nothing withheld. Every single card in the chests are extra for the digital version, and aren't necessary in the slightest. 

 

As far as I've seen, being offline disables absolutely nothing other than your ability to earn gold, but I'm not sure on that.

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I just hate the fact that a great game had to be bundled with a CCG.  I don't like random chance drawing, and I avoid pretty much all games that are based on it because artificially created rarity is... well, I have no good things to say about it, at the very least.  I would much rather buy static expansion packs.  On top of it, they just added some new cards to the mix (or fixed the balance on the random number generators, because in just a few packs, I managed to get a ton of cards I'd never seen before) but you can still get the old ones, which means that if they throw a few more in every now and again, some large percentage of any expense is total waste.  CCG Rarity schemes are one thing, but CCG Rarity schemes where they can ALSO expand the available card pool while still making you get dupes.  With a legendary rate of around some 1%, you have to open 25 or so packs to get one, and then it could be a dupe.  If they add a single legendary to the mix, it could take hundreds of packs to be able to be lucky enough to draw it, but it could be even more.  I guess this is a great way to get the impatient player who's willing to pay to soak up the extra cost, but it's not going to last, and it just looks like a shameless money grab.

 

Honestly, just let me buy the chest cards for a flat amount, unlock them, and call it a day.  Otherwise, like most products of its nature, I won't be sticking around, and I won't be paying to subsidize all those free players.

 

CCG model is unheard of in the Mobile Board-game market.  Imagine if Pandemic said you had to buy card packs to get everything available in the game, but you might get the same things a hundred times and they just suck up the money.  Or elder sign, you can unlock extra elder ones, but if you want Cthulhu you might get Yig 15 times, oh, but you can recycle him for 2% of what you paid to get him!  It doesn't belong in board games, if you wanted to release a CCG, you should have released a CCG.

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I disagree on the price point: sure $25 is high for an app but who is making you pay it? .

But that's exactly what I'm saying. They can charge what they want (obviously) but I think it's high compared to what apps generally coat. Would I pay it if there wasn't an in game gold option? Maybe. But it wouldn't be an automatic purchase like if it cost $15 (which is still high-ish for a paid app). I'm just saying that in my opinion they might actually make more money if the game was a bit cheaper, because sure all the hardcore Pathfinder people who want to support the game are going to pay the $25 regardless. But when you get to people like me who don't think that way or people who don't have a connection to the card game at all, that cost might be a turnoff.

 

And in terms of the micro transaction stuff, I wish they'd just charge like $5 for base app (Deck B/C), $10 for the rest of the RotR content and then like $5 for extra treasure chest card pack 1 and not bother with in game gold at all. Based on other responses in this thread it doesn't look like I'm alone in that I might farm up enough gold for one decent treasure chest purchase, but then I'm probably done with that. Adding extra cards that weren't even part of the card game doesn't interest me that much in the first place, and it interests me even less when it sounds like MtG booster pack randomness in terms of even getting decent cards when you do it.

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That's essentially the same as buying the game. 

 

It's not the same. And it is scary that lot of people seem to think that on this board.

 

You don't get any item better than common, if you "buy" the game. How is this fair?

 

 

EDIT: appears I might be wrong and that there are unique cards that can only be found in the chests! Well, I guess the gold I'm accumulating will actually have a use. I guess it makes sense or else what use would the gold have at all?

 

 

I have to say it is extremely refreshing to see a good discussion about this topic. I was posting a rather emotional message yesterday because I am sooo incredibly disappointed about this game's gold system. It is an incredible well implemented game apart from this.  

 

I have to admit that apparently the extra cards are not part of the normal card game (since you can deactivate them in the menue). So... the extra cards are designed only for the digital games? I can not find a card list online of the physical game so can somebody confirm (check for real and confirm not guess...I would myself but I am not at home for quite some time)? Also... what about playing this game offline. There are actually two truths promoted on this board. Am I able to play the scenarios and play with all characters when I am offline? If yes, that is extremely badly communicated in the game and on the website (maybe underline difference between story mode and quest mode stronger)

 

Again: I think the IAP-system is NEARLY perfect. The gold/time ratio is fair enough. There are a lot of things for grinders to unlock and statistically there will be a lot who spend money who normally would not. 

 

But: If I buy the game, I want the whole game. Give me a base chance on uncommon, rare and legendary items (...I guess in quest mode?!?) even if I decide to not grind the hell out of this game (not have time for this). I want to buy this game. I am actually looking forward to future scenarios and will be more than happy to pay 25 dollar each. Just treat me like a paying customer and not screw me over and force me to use the gold system. Because right now you get 0 dollar (not only from me, I guess, but everybody who expects a full game). 

 

 

I agree with you. Sick of killing Pillbug Podiker over and over again. I bought the whole game but yet, have to grind out to get the full game with all the cards in it. Even then its 100% by chance and probably take me more than a year to finally unlock all cards, and spend a total of 50 hours salvaging the dups that I got.

 

In response to what you said, yes they get 0 because we want to grind it out. There may be some who just have the money or people like us who got sick of grinding who will spend extra on gold to get treasure chests. That is the sad part because this game is really one of the best mobile apps I've played (I have never played the real life game), that this monetisation part is like a thorn at the side of a rose.

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I am honestly baffled at all the hate in this thread. Not angry, not annoyed -- just honestly and truly baffled.

 

There is a game called the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game. It can be played solo, but it's a real pain with all the shuffling and setup. So Obsidian decided to make a digital version to take all the hassle out of playing solo. A lot of people were excited about this. The game came out and cost $25. For $25, you get everything an owner of the physical card game would get (more, actually, if you count the promos, which must be bought separately), only in digital form. You download the game. You pay $25 (for what in physical form would cost $160 MSRP, by the way). You play as much as you want, offine or online.

 

End of story!

 

If anyone is annoyed about this, I just honestly do not understand why. Thanks to Obsidian, you can get $160 worth of game for $25 and in a more convenient format. Except actually, if you're willing to play the game a lot, you can get $160 worth of game for less than $25, or even for free.

 

I do not mean to insult anyone in this thread. I've seen some of you post elsewhere and I respect some of your opinions. But on this particular issue, if I were a game developer, I would utterly dismiss all of your feedback. The complaints I'm seeing here are so out of whack with the facts and so beyond the pale of rationality that I would feel I have no reasonablle choice except to write you off as customers who are never going to be pleased no matter what I do.

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@Borissimo

 

Yes and no. I totally agree with you on the price point. It is a truly awesome offer. I just think many people are annoyed by IAP and F2P on mobile (which, I am recognizing, seems to be necessary in the current mobile market) and this is why the discussion is heated. This discussion is not about the price. As ArchSenex is saying: If board games now come with random, unlockable content of the former base game (that you cannot ignore even if you buy the game), I want to draw a line in the sand and say: Nope.

 

Which is not the case here (I think...it's confusing)!

I checked the official deck list of RoR and low and behold... ALL treasure cards seem to be exclusively created for the digital game (Artwork and Stats?).

 

Can somebody confirm this?

IF this is the case, than the whole argument of this topic (mine included) does not hold anymore, since new cards would mean additional value that you can buy extra (with gold or money). I guess for people who really hate item RNG they should put in a "just unlock all items in my vault and leave me be" option.

 

I am still confused about this (and apparently I am not alone, because it is not communicated in the game at all)

 

Bought the game now (as I say: it's not about the money) to resolve this discussion and confusion once and for all. 

 

Borissomo, you seem like a nice guy, so no offence. But unfortunately you are wrong. You do NOT get all the cards in the original game. Exactly this is my problem (and the reason why everybody should write 1 star reviews and not get this game). 

 

If you have the physical game: Search the Fox ally card. See it? Ok.

Now I go to the game that I "fully" unlocked. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> All -> No Fox. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> Treasures -> Fox 

This is the whole point of this topic. Yes, I don't care how crappy the card is and yes, there are more examples. (I didn't unlock more treasures for obvious reasons). Go through the official card list on the Pathfinder website.

I am OK with the cards exclusively created for the digital game to be in chests. Some are not and I think that is also a very valid point. Just saying "end of story", especially after stating something, that is just not true (which is not your fault btw. since the information around the treasures is nebulous at best) is not in the interest of anyone. 

Edited by Risodon
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I am honestly baffled at all the hate in this thread. Not angry, not annoyed -- just honestly and truly baffled.

 

There is a game called the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game. It can be played solo, but it's a real pain with all the shuffling and setup. So Obsidian decided to make a digital version to take all the hassle out of playing solo. A lot of people were excited about this. The game came out and cost $25. For $25, you get everything an owner of the physical card game would get (more, actually, if you count the promos, which must be bought separately), only in digital form. You download the game. You pay $25 (for what in physical form would cost $160 MSRP, by the way). You play as much as you want, offine or online.

 

End of story!

 

If anyone is annoyed about this, I just honestly do not understand why. Thanks to Obsidian, you can get $160 worth of game for $25 and in a more convenient format. Except actually, if you're willing to play the game a lot, you can get $160 worth of game for less than $25, or even for free.

 

I do not mean to insult anyone in this thread. I've seen some of you post elsewhere and I respect some of your opinions. But on this particular issue, if I were a game developer, I would utterly dismiss all of your feedback. The complaints I'm seeing here are so out of whack with the facts and so beyond the pale of rationality that I would feel I have no reasonablle choice except to write you off as customers who are never going to be pleased no matter what I do.

 

I would like to correct you that there is no hate :)

 

Its more like baffled at it. Sure, you can play the game a lot to get $160 worth of game for less than $25. I think the whole point is people don't want to play a lot of the game to do that, and we rather have a price for the whole thing upfront. At least have the option there so that if you don't want to kill Pillbug Podiker a thousand times, you can just pay for it.

 

Technically you could spend real money to buy treasure chests, but right now, the way it is designed, even if you sink in and addition $135 to buy treasure chests, you may not even get the full set of cards due to RNG. And this whole sinkhole of endless money you have to pay for without knowing the end to get the full set of cards is the whole predicament here.

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Very interesting topic, and I've thought about it a bit. Up front I payed the $25 and would do it again. Would likely pay another $25 when the next adventure path is rolled out even with no changes to the current structure.

 

First off, the $25 to $160 argument is complete nonsense. They are different markets and different platforms. $25 is well above the going rate for apps with all the limitation they bring (can't fudge/homerule things, lend it to friends, app could be pulled, support could stop and break with OS update, etc).  

 

Second, I am of two minds about the gold system. On one hand it provides incentive to play. I might put down the game for an entire month now that I have finished Adventure 3 with all characters including on Legendary. I love the bonus cards and being able to tweak the box (I got rid of almost all "uncommons" from Decks B-2, the fact they reduce the likelyhood of getting Deck 3 items is stupid even if they are interesting). In July I'll probably cull Deck 3 treasure cards to stack the box for Deck 4.

 

On the other hand it provides incentive to grind (ugh!). At a minimum, those of us who have payed should not need to be online to get gold rewards from playing. If you are going to keep the system, let those of us who have payed full price not be tethered to being online. I am okish with the treasure chests being bonus cards but the system is clunky.

 

My proposal for those of us who paid, every day we logon and play one quest we get a daily completion bonus of 500 gold. Also a pack of 25 chests with every adventure deck released. Globally gold rewards should be halved, and costs for Adventure Deck 1 & 2 and a random bonus character (you can only buy it once) halved. This is not a FTP game! Buying adventures with gold should let the free players get a taste, then cut them off or require manic grinding. Also let of salvage cards directly from the chest opening page. Don't make people burn out on your game before you finished Rise of the Runelords!

 

And fix the gold payouts. You should only get gold for first time completion and for the most current adventure deck (difficulty level doesn't matter). No more payouts for killing Podiker! 

 

What makes it more frustrating is that not all cards are available. Before the patch I had not one Deck 3 uncommon, even if the pictures were in. Many of the Legendary cards are not available, yet it is hidden information. It would be helpful if a Dev could chime in with a list of what cards are actually possible to pull so I could spend my gold without second guessing myself. As it is, I will not buy any more chests until the next adventure deck is released. No point getting more uncommon cards that I already have when more stuff is going to be released.

Edited by Kamikazi
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Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I had to make an account because this topic cringed me out so bad.

The less said anymore, the better I think.

 

1) The devs made you a FULL digital version of the original board game for $25. Full stop.

 

But if I must continue...

 

2) out of the kindness of the devs hearts, they even awarded all you great guys and gals with BONUS content!! Purchasable by real money or early by in game gold. Great!! Something extra to do! I know right!! These devs are amazing guys.

 

3) once purchased, you can leave this planet and head straight for the moon, without reception, and you'd be able to play the full game OFFLINE.

 

Devs did an amazing job, quit whinging.

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If you have the physical game: Search the Fox ally card. See it? Ok.

Now I go to the game that I "fully" unlocked. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> All -> No Fox. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> Treasures -> Fox 

This is the whole point of this topic. Yes, I don't care how crappy the card is and yes, there are more examples. (I didn't unlock more treasures for obvious reasons). Go through the official card list on the Pathfinder website.

I am OK with the cards exclusively created for the digital game to be in chests. Some are not and I think that is also a very valid point. Just saying "end of story", especially after stating something, that is just not true (which is not your fault btw. since the information around the treasures is nebulous at best) is not in the interest of anyone. 

 

Just want to point out, that the Fox actually is NOT part of the base game.

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Fox is not from Rise of the Runelords. It's from the Character Add On Deck for Skull and Shackles.

 

Even if something is missing now, you won't have every card YET, as not all Adventure Packs are available yet. There are still 3 more decks to be released.

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If you have the physical game: Search the Fox ally card. See it? Ok.

Now I go to the game that I "fully" unlocked. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> All -> No Fox. Gallery -> Cards -> Allies -> Treasures -> Fox 

This is the whole point of this topic. Yes, I don't care how crappy the card is and yes, there are more examples. (I didn't unlock more treasures for obvious reasons). Go through the official card list on the Pathfinder website.

I am OK with the cards exclusively created for the digital game to be in chests. Some are not and I think that is also a very valid point. Just saying "end of story", especially after stating something, that is just not true (which is not your fault btw. since the information around the treasures is nebulous at best) is not in the interest of anyone. 

 

Just want to point out, that the Fox actually is NOT part of the base game.

 

 

I bought the whole Rise of Runelord set, including the Char-sets.

Maybe I am wrong and B stands for something else? What DO they belong to?

 

Noble Brat is another treasure card btw. (just picked that up in another threat)

 

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