Pillars of Eternity 2 Wish List and Suggestions

[Archaven]

I'm not sure at this point in time.. perhaps PoE2 already 70% complete? Who knows? Divinity Original Sins looks awesome.. why Obsidian didnt consider licensing Larian's engine? Considering their engine is good and tailored for RPGs. Last i streamed DOS2 and it was looking so beautiful. Also the biggest issue i have with PoE was the character animation. It was so static like it was from Baldur's Gate .. which was like what? 17 years ago? I know the character animations probably the same perhaps it's an engine limitation, etc. Hence, why not just license Original Sin engine or maybe consider Unreal engine?

[Sedrefilos]

What I'd like also to see in the sequel is humanoids have more realistic encounter behaviors. I've opened a topic about it to further explain what I mean, in case anyone wants to see.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/90938-nonsensical-humanoid-behavior/

[JerekKruger]

I think most one-handed weapons just don't get enough attention from people. Partially because with DR system players naturally gravitate towards things with higher damage per hit, partially because many of them are weak and uninteresting anyway - nothing like Celestial Fury/Daystar/Mace of Disruption/Crom Fayer. There's custom made spear, two sabres and firebug-proccing dagger which was already nerfed from what I remember of any worth. And aside from spear with tongue twisting name and Resolution, else is WM content.

 

There are actually quite a few good one-handed weapons, although they are concentrated in a handful of weapon types - there are three good sabres, three or four good axes (I haven't used Wodewys enough to judge it), several good stilettos, and three good Warhammers. There are also a couple of very good swords, but they're available so late in the game it's best to ignore them, and and several pretty good fast one-handed weapons which won't keep up in damage terms but have other factors that make them good (the Sword of Daenysis is perhaps an exception to this since with 3 DR bypass it will usually do comparable damage to a normal one-hander).

 

You're right though that on the whole magic weapons are a bit unexciting in PoE, particularly in vanilla PoE. There are some pretty interesting ones in the WM I'd say, though whether they really compare to the best from BG2 is debatable.

 

Also I agree that the DR system needs an overhaul. I like it in principal, and think it makes far more sense than the weird D&D AC system - where armour doesn't protect you, it stops you getting hit - but at the moment it does tend to favour big hitting weapons (two-handers, sabres and axes) and weapons with DR bypass (estocs and stilettos) rather too much. Hopefully Obsidian can tweak it and/or rework it so that we have more choice in the sequel.

[Baramos]

Not expecting new classes but it'd be nice to get more "sub" classes. More patron deities to choose from as a priest, more paladin orders (I believe a couple more were mentioned in the game), etc...

[evilcat]

Not expecting new classes but it'd be nice to get more "sub" classes. More patron deities to choose from as a priest, more paladin orders (I believe a couple more were mentioned in the game), etc...

Not sure if quantity if what we are looking for. There are some data that only 20% players finish game, multiple walkthough is even more limited, so it is better to have just a few good options, rather than many many similar.

 

I think it is better to have 4 orders with 5 traits than 10 orders with 2 traits each.

 

As for classes: I wish for good and proactive sword and fireball class (maybe just implement Duskblade or Pathfinder Magus - no need to invent what could be discovered) Also the make your spell aproach from Tyranny is good for at least one class.

 

Some players may enjoy: paths for druids elemental (spells) or wildshape (more melee), specs for wizzards at least for animancy and warmage (evocation) and lets say scholar (control and support).

 

The other option is tyranny way but add more trees for more combinations like: beastmaster (pet), Shapeshifting, Animancy (summoning),

 

Fancy idea for character creation system, divide character into:

1. Skill trees (similar to tyranny)

2. Class Path - can have only 1 active, you get points for each skill point in related skill tree (one or many for multiclass paths) and the more you collect the more bonus tiers you have, but they all are havy themed to mimic classes.

Edited January 8, 2017 by evilcat

[Baramos]

 

Not expecting new classes but it'd be nice to get more "sub" classes. More patron deities to choose from as a priest, more paladin orders (I believe a couple more were mentioned in the game), etc...

Not sure if quantity if what we are looking for. There are some data that only 20% players finish game, multiple walkthough is even more limited, so it is better to have just a few good options, rather than many many similar.

 

Is that really a good reason to make options more limited? Because with that logic wouldn't the same argument work against having more classes?

 

And I'm only talking about adding existing deities and orders. Not making new ones. I recall reading in one of the books about a Paladin order that basically serves Woedica (I think it was the Steel Garrote or something). And the deities speak for themselves. You hear about many other Deities and even see enemy priests of those deities. What harm is allowing the player to make one?

[Iamoutlaw]

I'm going to be in the minority here, but 3D. I think it could be done and still have a unique looking game. I felt like Dragon Age: Origins did a great job. You could switch between Isometric and over the shoulder. I know this isn't going to happen for POE 2, but may as well as mention it.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Iamoutlaw

[anameforobsidian]

I'm going to be in the minority here, but 3D. I think it could be done and still have a unique looking game. I felt like Dragon Age: Origins did a great job. You could switch between Isometric and over the shoulder. I know this isn't going to happen for POE 2, but may as well as mention it.

 

Dragon Age Origins also took 18 million years to develop.  Seriously, I'm pretty sure it was in the works after NWN 1.  Either way, they would lose a lot of the tech and assets they made for this game.

[evilcat]

I'm going to be in the minority here, but 3D. I think it could be done and still have a unique looking game. I felt like Dragon Age: Origins did a great job. You could switch between Isometric and over the shoulder. I know this isn't going to happen for POE 2, but may as well as mention it.

New engine means new assets, and a lot of work. May be better to spend hours on quests.

[Quillon]

Some people makes their own engine from scratch on the verge of bankruptcy(CDPR) and some choose not to use & improve their own engine(Obs) to save dev. time, guess on the verge of bankruptcy also :D < Not really related to 2D/3D.

 

Unless they have very good reason, it would be stupid to change the engine now that they know the engine better and made more tools for faster development etc. Guess it would also be stupid to change the style of the game in the same engine atm(Unity is a 3D engine). We can see a different engine when/if PoE goes Skyrim-style in the future: Feargus' dream. 

[Shadenuat]

 

There are actually quite a few good one-handed weapons,

I just don't concider weapons that add 1.2 more DPS to character as good/interesting/well-designed. I think weapons that now stand apart from others in PoE are either with elemental/physical damage or soulbound weapons. Those really bring something new to the table.

[JerekKruger]

I just don't concider weapons that add 1.2 more DPS to character as good/interesting/well-designed. I think weapons that now stand apart from others in PoE are either with elemental/physical damage or soulbound weapons. Those really bring something new to the table.

 

I pretty much agree, hence my point about weapons being a bit unexciting.

[Archaven]

I finished Dragon Age Inquisition and man that FrostBite 3 is one of the best engine i've seen. Second would be Ubisoft Dunia engine. Farcry 4 it was utter beauty. Now Obsidian would not have that budget for these kind of games. And i'm not interested in PoE becoming a first person either. I love top down isometric and it needs to be remained. While first person is sheer beauty, i find it a hassle to pull the camera up ala Dragon Age Origins. What PoE2 needs for me are just completely new character animations. Divinity Original Sins looks awesome even it's 3D. Comparing the assets of Divinity Original Sins, it looks far better than 2D PoE handrawn background to me, IMO. I'm not sure why Obsidian has to be so stubborn sticking to 2D. It's seems to me they are not technically capable engine-wise but they are good story tellers and make good RPGs. That's why they should not focus and waste time in creating/enhancing their engine. Just license a good one.

 

Don't focus in building a car. Get one. As the point is not building a car but to reach your destination. Don't focus in finding which pen you want, but focus in writing the most intriguing story instead. Most devs are stubborn in wanting to stick to their old and not so powerful game engine.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Archaven

[evilcat]

It is interesting question from marketing point of view, what exacly players expect from crpg? I guess it is 1) Awesome stories 2) Tactical fun.

Does 3D help with that? Will it work in limited budget?

Isometric 2.5D is convinient, since it works for tactical layer, and power of storytelling lies elsewhere anyway.

If we compare Dragon Age with Witcher or Mass Effect the later games has also quite fun action layer, so they use 3D in mechanical way.

 

One good reason for 3d background is better interaction with surrounding, like using objects in combat, or using high ground, or area destruction. That would indeed be cool. (using background in combat... this has potencial) and to some degree could be done in isometric.

 

Another reason for 3d may be that it puts player closer to the character (literally) and helps immersion, since we are no longer oversoul looking from above, but id looking from behind the shoulder. Hard to judge how much is it true. Also facial mimics and gesture could help, but in crpg they are not so good so far.

Edited January 12, 2017 by evilcat

[Quillon]

What PoE2 needs for me are just completely new character animations. Divinity Original Sins looks awesome even it's 3D. Comparing the assets of Divinity Original Sins, it looks far better than 2D PoE handrawn background to me, IMO. I'm not sure why Obsidian has to be so stubborn sticking to 2D.

I also could never see the so-called superior beauty of 2D backgrounds over 3D. From what little I've seen of Expeditions: Viking, the game looks beautiful & atmospheric more so than PoE(or DoS) to me.

 

As for why Obs sticking to it, besides what I posted earlier I guess they chose this style cos of budget and nostalgia and maybe they think its more beautiful also like most backers I guess. But now "distinction" could also have become a factor; Obs can't make the best looking game atm but can make the best or one of the best looking 2D-ish game and apparently they are innovating within that style with some destruction scenes seen in Tyranny and hints of expansive weather effects for "the future" and the talk of more dynamic backgrounds. And yes animations needs some love; its improved in Tyranny but TToN's walking-running animations look way better, maybe Obs can pull some tech back from InExile in exchange.

 

My overall problem with 2D style is that as it is atm its not immersive for me. I'm hoping better LoD for characters, more dynamic backgrounds, weather effects etc could help with this in "the future".

 

It's seems to me they are not technically capable engine-wise but they are good story tellers and make good RPGs. That's why they should not focus and waste time in creating/enhancing their engine. Just license a good one.

 

Don't focus in building a car. Get one. As the point is not building a car but to reach your destination. Don't focus in finding which pen you want, but focus in writing the most intriguing story instead. Most devs are stubborn in wanting to stick to their old and not so powerful game engine.

Which basically means don't change anything since Obs already using a licensed engine(s). I disagree; game companies who make and use their own engines are growing faster. Risk-reward tho, maybe some went bankrupt trying to do so. And Obs has Tim Cain for 5-6 years now, the guy.. the legend was building game engines just cos he felt like it back in the olden days :D

[Sedrefilos]

2D backgrounds, as beautiful as they may be, they're always too static. Like pictures. 3D feel more alive. I'd like to see an upgrade to 3D for Pillars 2, but I won't complain if they stick to 2D because they want to throw everything in mechanics and roleplaying and release the game earlier - like 1 year earlier than it would take if they convert to a new engine.

[Tigranes]

What the hell is this now? An "upgrade" to 3D? It's not an "upgrade" - it's a choice with pros and cons. 

 

I won't claim 2D backgrounds look "better", because that would make the same mistake of giving some blanket superiority. More specifically, there's an artistic style that comes through beautifully in IE-style backgrounds that just cannot be replicated to equal or greater effect in most 3D solutions, just like you would not wish to make a first person game filled with hallucinations and platforming sequences, or something like The Last Guardian, in 2D isometric.

 

I and many others kickstarted POE not because 2D backgrounds are always better and should be how every game is made, but because this type of game with this kind of style wasn't being made anymore and we were willing to pay especially for it to exist in the ecosystem. That also goes for many other 'old school' aspects. There should be more unique games that draw from all eras and all styles, making for a richer market for everybody.

 

 

Now, one could argue that there's nothing very good about the style, but then it's a question of preferences, and POE is a franchise that exists because enough people spoke in hearty support of that style (amongst other things). Personally, I can't see for the life of me how D:OS' World of Warcraft cartoon assets look better than anything, for example, but if someone else prefers it, that's just fine - but there's nothing there to argue that 3D or whatever is 'better' or that a franchise specifically developed for an underserved style should suddenly switch to a style that is already plentiful. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Tigranes

[evilcat]

I am interested in making 2d background more interactive during combat. Modern Shadowrun games did it to some degree, so it is possible, however probably need to be limited only to some "harder" fights.

 

Sample uses:

• Sneaking around off combat and making some diversion (set curtains on fire to move some mobs)
• Good ol' exploding barrels, or splitting some flameable oil and set it ablaze
• Valve gases
• Cutting chandelier ropes for great impact
• Pillars smashed with fireball
• Corpses well used but you need to make some first (cool gimmick for animancers)
• Who let the dogs out
• Throwing some bench at the wrench

[anameforobsidian]

I'd be happy if they got weather and daily schedules in this time.

[Tigranes]

 

I am interested in making 2d background more interactive during combat. Modern Shadowrun games did it to some degree, so it is possible, however probably need to be limited only to some "harder" fights.

 

Sample uses:

• Sneaking around off combat and making some diversion (set curtains on fire to move some mobs)
• Good ol' exploding barrels, or splitting some flameable oil and set it ablaze
• Valve gases
• Cutting chandelier ropes for great impact
• Pillars smashed with fireball
• Corpses well used but you need to make some first (cool gimmick for animancers)
• Who let the dogs out
• Throwing some bench at the wrench

 

 

Destructible environments are awesome, but in both 2D and 3D it has so far proven prohibitively costly for most games. I remember about 15 years ago when I looked at all these 3D games and the physics hype and hoping we'd get this kind of stuff all over the place, but there are precious few - Dark Messiah and, heh, Ultima Underworld from the early 90s, in the RPG genre.

 

Icewind Dale 2 had exploding barrels and enemies banging on war-drums, and a few other interactions, those kind of things would be nice if unlikely.

[Elric Galad]

And what about backer's stronghold adventures ? They are relatively independant from the main story

[Shadowfinger]

Rogues need a field of expertise where they could shine, because they underperform in combat compared to the other classes. Maybe make them skill-monkeys again with a lot of skill points so they could give some use to a party outside of combat. For this, some skills need to be redone, particullarly stealth. Maybe more crafting options via skills, stealth could include pickpocketing, stealth + mechanics could make some encounters easier etc.

 

Same goes for out-of-combat magic use.

 

Daggers and stilettos should be an Option for stealth attacks. Maybe they get a flat Bonus or a different multiplicator. As it is atm it's pretty much counter-intuitive.

 

Attack speed mechanics are messy.

 

Multiplayer or coop would be nice - but I guess it doesn't fitt with this kind of game.

 

Throwing knifes

 

A lot of meaningfull building options would be nice. More options for RP-purpose are better than 100% balance.

 

Smarter IA and interactive fighting like creating stone walls or walls that stop ranged attacks.  

[JerekKruger]

I'd be happy if they got weather and daily schedules in this time.

 

Weather is all but confirmed for PoE2 I believe (Josh gave a talk where he mentioned it). Daily schedules would be appreciated too, but if they are added in please give us the option to rest for a variable length of time (or at least let the set resting time actually be a divisor of the length of the day)

[Khaghan]

The one game mechanic I'd love to see is an auto-save after the conversation ends before big boss fights.  Especially since I had to fight Concelhaut and the Alpine Dragon Way Too Many Times each, and having to go through the dialogue tree, even if you try to cut right to the chase, gets tedious after the 10th gd time.  It auto-pauses at the start of a fight, and if it auto-saved as well at the major battles, that would be amazing.

[evilcat]

Bomb or granades.

Made of unused traps.

Traps are sometimes useful, but not very dynamic, and dynamic is more welcome/natural.

In mechanic way it is no different from using scroll or item clickie.

From lore if you can make trap trigger on step, you can make flask trigger on impact.

Set of feats for extra range, effectivness, area to make it more balanced and all.