Cards that banish after use.

[Brainwave]

A comment in another thread about healing potions got me thinking. Does anyone make use of the various cards that banish on use?

 

What I mean is, after the first couple of scenarios, once you've got cards in your deck that you actually want instead of just random basics, would you sacrifice a useful card in a deck to make room for a banish on use card? And I don't mean situations where you had to banish a card and there's a slot open... I mean is there any banish type card that in general to you is good enough to take even though it means tossing a pretty good card of that type to make room?

 

These can be anything from potions to allies that banish to do various things, to the new revamped holy candle. And cards that can banish on like a die roll aren't really the same, I'm mostly talking about cards that are one use and then go back to the box.

 

Personally, while I'm sure I have done so before, I can't recall a specific one use card I would take over a decent card that will stay in a deck after the scenario. And it's not just because they are one use, it's also because you're losing some other card that you actually wanted which you will have to find again later (or find something better) after your one use of the banish card. But maybe others are more fast and loose with their decks or some of these cards are better than I'm giving them credit for, which is why I'm curious.

[Borissimo]

Short answer: yes.

 

To expand on that a bit: I think the key phrase of the OP is this one:

 

I can't recall a specific one use card I would take over a decent card ... it's not just because they are one use, it's also because you're losing some other card

 

It's true that there's an opportunity cost to lugging around a conditional one-use item, but this opportunity cost is very low because items suck. It's not till AD4 or so that you actually begin to develop a critical mass of quality items.

 

Here's a fun game: quickly think of 5 really good items from AD2 and below off the top of your head. Ready? Go.

 

...

 

I bet you came up with:

 

Spyglass

Masterwork Tools

Staff of Minor Healing

 

Aaaaand then you listed two pieces of relative garbage just to get your count up to 5. There's just not that many "wow, this is exciting!" items for like half the game.

 

So am I willing to drop Bracers of Protection or some bull**** to carry around a Potion of Glibness? Hells yes I am! Give m'boy Harsk that smooth-talkin' potion and he can convert it into an extra exploration when he encounters an ally. Or maybe it'll come in handy closing a diplomacy-based location. If not, he'll fire an arrow with it -- which is what he was going to do with those Bracers of Protection anyway.

 

Not all potions are created equal. Glibness and Ruggedness (for diplomacy and survival, respectively) are on a pedestal because (1) they can be converted into extra explorations via encountered allies, and (2) diplomacy and survival checks to close locations are relatively common.

 

I also like caltrops. They defeat a lot of the henchmen early on, and in my 6-player video series, they won me at least one scenario. Lini encountered the villain in a mostly-depleted deck. If she'd had to fight him, it would have cost the party a ton of resources to win the check and a ton of time to find the villain again later. Instead, she used Caltrops to evade. Now I knew where the villain was, so I closed as many locations as I could before the clock got too low, and went back into that location with more capable fighters to finish the job.

 

So in sum, I'm more than happy to sacrifice a crappy item that I'll never use for a situational item that might buy me an extra turn, guarantee that I can close a location at a critical moment, or outright make the difference between winning and losing.

 

I've talked exclusively about items so far. When it comes to allies, throw everything I said out the window. At minimum, an ally is an extra exploration. This is very valuable. Thus, with one meta-gamey exception (Mr. A. F.), I never carry over any of the one-use allies. They're junk, and it seems they're only meant to be used in the scenario in which you find them.

[Brainwave]

That's about where I am with it. Although even in AP1 I can come up with enough items to fill Meri and Kyra's item slots. Kyra has a thieves tools and Meri has a masterwork tools, a spyglass, a regular thieves tools, a staff of minor healing and a Sihedron medallion. Even if I could possibly toss one or two of those items or if I had enough characters in the party to get to the point where there aren't enough good items to go around - at some point via loot cards alone there will be enough good items. And at that point, definitely forget about it.

 

Oh and one other starter item that I like, specifically for Lini or Sajan, is the amulet of mighty fists. Decent weapon substitute at low levels and grants the magic trait, which barring having an attack spell on hand or Kyra, can be tough to pull off with a starter party.

 

Mostly I was wondering if people played vastly different than I do - like tossing a masterwork tools for a one use item and then just hoping to pick it back up later. But yeah none of the one use effects seem good enough to be worth that cost. I do agree if I'm still sitting on caltrops, I'd probably take a potion of healing or something similar over them, though.

[Namyra]

 

I bet you came up with:

 

Spyglass

Masterwork Tools

Staff of Minor Healing

 

 

I did, but also how about:

 

Thieves' Tools

Amulet of Life

Sihedron Medallion

Ring of Protection

 

All of those have saved my life countless times.

 

Crown of Charisma is pretty good as well, certainly a lot better than the best potion (Glibness).

 

Anyways, I very rarely keep banish on use items in my deck past the first few scenarios. They can come in handy at times, but I generally find them a bit too situational for my liking. I agree that Glibness and Ruggedness are the most use out of the potions, as like Borrissimo said, they can essentially be thought of as items that give you an extra exploration (if you happen to meet an ally you have trouble with/would have to bless). Thing is, I've yet to play with a party larger than 4. Which makes extra explorations less crucial. For 5+, I could see that becoming more and more important, plus you have more item slots to fill with garbage then. Caltrops are a decent starter item, but I can't really see myself keeping them for more than the first few scenarios.

 

Agreed on the allies, the banish on use allies often have powerful effects, but not powerful enough to keep them over an ally that can explore (and provide an additional useful effect). I find them nice to acquire and then use during the same scenario, but not to keep, with the exception of dear Mr. A. F. indeed

[Brainwave]

Yep, I forgot about crown of charisma. Considering there's at least 2 scenarios I can think of where acquiring allies is actually more than just a bonus, and in many cases it can help a low charisma character auto acquire one, it's definitely a solid item.

[FellintoOblivion]

Short answer: yes.

 

To expand on that a bit: I think the key phrase of the OP is this one:

 

I can't recall a specific one use card I would take over a decent card ... it's not just because they are one use, it's also because you're losing some other card

 

It's true that there's an opportunity cost to lugging around a conditional one-use item, but this opportunity cost is very low because items suck. It's not till AD4 or so that you actually begin to develop a critical mass of quality items.

 

Here's a fun game: quickly think of 5 really good items from AD2 and below off the top of your head. Ready? Go.

 

...

 

I bet you came up with:

 

Spyglass

Masterwork Tools

Staff of Minor Healing

 

Aaaaand then you listed two pieces of relative garbage just to get your count up to 5. There's just not that many "wow, this is exciting!" items for like half the game.

 

So am I willing to drop Bracers of Protection or some bull**** to carry around a Potion of Glibness? Hells yes I am! Give m'boy Harsk that smooth-talkin' potion and he can convert it into an extra exploration when he encounters an ally. Or maybe it'll come in handy closing a diplomacy-based location. If not, he'll fire an arrow with it -- which is what he was going to do with those Bracers of Protection anyway.

 

Not all potions are created equal. Glibness and Ruggedness (for diplomacy and survival, respectively) are on a pedestal because (1) they can be converted into extra explorations via encountered allies, and (2) diplomacy and survival checks to close locations are relatively common.

 

I also like caltrops. They defeat a lot of the henchmen early on, and in my 6-player video series, they won me at least one scenario. Lini encountered the villain in a mostly-depleted deck. If she'd had to fight him, it would have cost the party a ton of resources to win the check and a ton of time to find the villain again later. Instead, she used Caltrops to evade. Now I knew where the villain was, so I closed as many locations as I could before the clock got too low, and went back into that location with more capable fighters to finish the job.

 

So in sum, I'm more than happy to sacrifice a crappy item that I'll never use for a situational item that might buy me an extra turn, guarantee that I can close a location at a critical moment, or outright make the difference between winning and losing.

 

I've talked exclusively about items so far. When it comes to allies, throw everything I said out the window. At minimum, an ally is an extra exploration. This is very valuable. Thus, with one meta-gamey exception (Mr. A. F.), I never carry over any of the one-use allies. They're junk, and it seems they're only meant to be used in the scenario in which you find them.

Sihedron Medallion (x2)

Skinsaw Mask

Ring of Protection

Samisen

[sonbalin]

Sajan can re-use potions later on which makes them a whole lot more useful, especially Healing Potions. 

[Brainwave]

Right but Sajan is a whole different ballgame. I'm talking normal characters taking those kind of cards. Also, while I agree the card game version of holy candle was overpowered, I wish they'd changed it in some other way. Some other cost could have been put on the card to balance it without making it a banish card. And the overall response I've gotten in this thread pretty much backs up the concept that the vast majority of banish cards are hardly ever played, beyond picking them up and using them right away in the current adventure.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Holy candle is still good if you can get it From location for one round!

This new one is much better for game balance!

[269Hawkmoon]

I generally won't keep a "banish to play" boon around if there are other options. But I don't mind having them during a scenario. It isn't much different than a Longsword. I'll eventually have all weapons that are better than a Longsword and will never keep it.

 

And adding to your list of excellent items, I often give Ezren 2 Codecies and the Tome of Knowledge. Once he gets Brodert Quink as an ally, the Tome is even more useful. He can churn out explorations. With the Treasure Chests, I've enjoyed him having the Blacksmith very much. I can't wait to get him a Monkey though.

[PinkRose]

I use all potions I can during a scenario. I don't feel they are helpful.

They are necessar, however, for the game, game balance, flavour.

So, except Seoni and a healing potion, I don't bring any along when I don't have to.

[zeroth_hour]

Later characters (namely Alchemists) have an expanded version of Sajan's Drunken Master power where they can recharge Alchemical cards that get banished.  It's pretty amusing - I'm using Damiel in the Organized Play scenarios in real life right now.

[da_mayor]

I rarely do, but sometimes if I find myself rolling Fortitude rolls a lot, I'll keep a Potion of Fortitude around until I find the Amulet of Fortitude.  Also, if I pick up a potion of Healing and don't use it immediately, I'll give it to Merisiel.

[Kgk4569]

Crowbar (I actually like it and use it a lot)

Amulet of life (It's like an extra armor for my Meri since I only have 1 medallion)

[269Hawkmoon]

I never regret picking up a Potion of Glibness. And if I have to take a Basic item, it is often one I'll consider. It will basically turn into an ally.

 

I like Crowbar a lot too. It and Mattock are both underrated.

[Brainwave]

I don't mind the existence of such items. Like the quarterstaff vs the mace. The mace is basically "better" but the existence of the quarterstaff is still fine because not all cards have to be balanced with each other in a game like this. In fact, some cards being better than others is sort of the point. However, that doesn't mean that I don't feel sad when I see that one of the few boons being added in a later pack is a banish on use card that I will probably never use, since I think of those cards as supposed upgrades.

[eddiephlash]

After Deck 3....Sajan's Drunken Master Role allows him to recharge items with the Liquid trait. 

[wakasm]

I feel like the banish boons are there mostly to use during the scenario you find them as well as to water down the % chance of finding actual loot.  Even for an Alchemist or the Drunken Master Role, a lot of them just aren't that great.  

 

I wouldn't mind if they went and explored the concept further though... such as having banish to use boons that do stuff in conjunction to other boons like: 

 

Magical Red Potion, Magical Blue Potion, Magical Green Potion - all have a banish to use effect like "Banish to get a d6 on an intellegence, dexterity, or strengh check" but then as an additional clause of "Ff you have all 3 in your possession, return them to the game box and get a specific loot card" that is a single, stronger, version of the 3 potions.  

 

Some sort of card combo synergy or push your luck/reward mechanic would be welcome.  This way you are holding onto cards for a long term gain, that is also thematic.  

[Brainwave]

Pretty much what you said. For me it's not so much that banish cards exist, it's that there's so many of them and maybe more importantly that more are added in later decks. If I'm only going to get 10 (rough guess but not that far off) unique new boons in a pack, having 1 or 2 of them be basically filler seems weak. Something like what you suggest that gives another option of having banish on use cards but adding a gameplay element to possibly turn them into something better is a good way to make those cards at least have the possibility of being more than filler.

[LAntorcha]

1 use items are 90% junk for keeping in your deck (except Holy Candle and the like), as you lost "slots" for some other nice ones.

If you encounter them in game ok, use'em and banish... but dont tell me you preffer a Potion of Gibliness in spite of another item, cause when you use it you can end trading them for crap on the next run.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Alchemical class deck has Many good options and ofcourse interesting potion users.

[Srvannor]

Short answer: yes.

 

To expand on that a bit: I think the key phrase of the OP is this one:

 

I can't recall a specific one use card I would take over a decent card ... it's not just because they are one use, it's also because you're losing some other card

 

It's true that there's an opportunity cost to lugging around a conditional one-use item, but this opportunity cost is very low because items suck. It's not till AD4 or so that you actually begin to develop a critical mass of quality items.

 

Here's a fun game: quickly think of 5 really good items from AD2 and below off the top of your head. Ready? Go.

 

...

 

I bet you came up with:

 

Spyglass

Masterwork Tools

Staff of Minor Healing

 

Aaaaand then you listed two pieces of relative garbage just to get your count up to 5. There's just not that many "wow, this is exciting!" items for like half the game.

 

So am I willing to drop Bracers of Protection or some bull**** to carry around a Potion of Glibness? Hells yes I am! Give m'boy Harsk that smooth-talkin' potion and he can convert it into an extra exploration when he encounters an ally. Or maybe it'll come in handy closing a diplomacy-based location. If not, he'll fire an arrow with it -- which is what he was going to do with those Bracers of Protection anyway.

 

Not all potions are created equal. Glibness and Ruggedness (for diplomacy and survival, respectively) are on a pedestal because (1) they can be converted into extra explorations via encountered allies, and (2) diplomacy and survival checks to close locations are relatively common.

 

I also like caltrops. They defeat a lot of the henchmen early on, and in my 6-player video series, they won me at least one scenario. Lini encountered the villain in a mostly-depleted deck. If she'd had to fight him, it would have cost the party a ton of resources to win the check and a ton of time to find the villain again later. Instead, she used Caltrops to evade. Now I knew where the villain was, so I closed as many locations as I could before the clock got too low, and went back into that location with more capable fighters to finish the job.

 

So in sum, I'm more than happy to sacrifice a crappy item that I'll never use for a situational item that might buy me an extra turn, guarantee that I can close a location at a critical moment, or outright make the difference between winning and losing.

 

I've talked exclusively about items so far. When it comes to allies, throw everything I said out the window. At minimum, an ally is an extra exploration. This is very valuable. Thus, with one meta-gamey exception (Mr. A. F.), I never carry over any of the one-use allies. They're junk, and it seems they're only meant to be used in the scenario in which you find them.

My fav combo of players so far: Meri, Kyra, Valeros, and Ezren. Items I'm not willing to give up for one-shot potions, etc:

 

Khol of Discernment, Spyglass, Masterwork Tools, Ring of Protection, Staff of Minor Healing x2, Sihedron Medallion x2, Crown of Charisma, Medusa Mask, Orb of Frost, Amulet of Life.

 

Most of the potions and items I find during the match end up being sneak attack fodder for Merisel or banish-to-close cards.

[LAntorcha]

Of course my previous statement goes by the window in a "If you have Alchemy trait Discard/Recharge Potion instead of Banishing" type Power Feat!