Dual wield highest dps weapon

[Kingsman]

Hi guys need your help please

 

What do you think the highest damage per second weapon you can use for dual wielding is?

 

I think it is either the sabre resolution or the battle axe rime cutter.

 

I will be duplicating the highest dps for dual weild on my rogue for my next play through with the Hellax mould.

 

Thanks heaps

Edited April 26, 2016 by Kingsman

[AndreaColombo]

Probably Rimecutter because of the Speed enchant, though Bittercut with the so-called "monster lash" is also very powerful.

[Blunderboss]

2x Bittercuts 

 

or Purgatory + Resolution or Double Resolution

 

Rimecutters are good if you lacking some speed for 0 recovery ,

 

Cladfalath Spear with Stun+Vicious duplicated with vax mold can be serious too 

 

Unlabored Blade cant be dual-wielded but some combination with Unlabored blade could be best too

 

imo it depends on your talents/items/abilities 

[Kingsman]

Bittercut? Really? Why is bittercut so good and what is the monster lash?

[Blunderboss]

Currently it seems that Spirit of Decay increases bittercuts base damage and then every +X% Lash scales of increased damage(corossive lashes even scale twice , once from increased base and then its 30% instead of 25% because of spirit of decay ) , and if you have two bittercuts it gets nasty

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Kingsman]

That's sounds workable thanks. Is there any other talents to select for that build besides selecting spirit of decay and using bittercut?

[DreamWayfarer]

That's sounds workable thanks. Is there any other talents to select for that build besides selecting spirit of decay and using bittercut?

Well, if Bleak Walkers are your thing, you can also pick Flames of Devotion, Intense Flames, Remember Rakhan Field and Scion of Flame. That is the true monsterlash in all its evil glory.

 

Or you can have a monk with Lightning Strikes, Turning Wheel and Scion of Flames. Nowhere as much burst, but lasts for more strikes.

 

EDIT: but then, neither of those are Rogues, so it was not much advice, right?

Edited April 27, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[Kingsman]

 

That's sounds workable thanks. Is there any other talents to select for that build besides selecting spirit of decay and using bittercut?

Well, if Bleak Walkers are your thing, you can also pick Flames of Devotion, Intense Flames, Remember Rakhan Field and Scion of Flame. That is the true monsterlash in all its evil glory.

Or you can have a monk with Lightning Strikes, Turning Wheel and Scion of Flames. Nowhere as much burst, but lasts for more strikes.

EDIT: but then, neither of those are Rogues, so it was not much advice, right?

Any advice is good advice, thanks.

 

It looks like where down to bittercut, rimecutter or resolution as the highest dps weapon for dual weilding (duplicated with the mould)

 

Can anyone confirm which one it actually is? Or does anyone have another weapon as a suggestion?

[Blunderboss]

It depends on your items talents and abilities , Bittercut if you have enough spare talents for SoD and if you can get to 0 recovery with them while taking all the dps talents , that is many "ifs"

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Kingsman]

It depends on your items talents and abilities , Bittercut if you have enough spare talents for SoD and if you can get to 0 recovery with them while taking all the dps talents , that is many "ifs"

Bittercut may be better on a fighter who has specc'd up with all the sabre specialisations possibly due to it not being an annihilation weapon that would suit a crit hitting rogue.

 

Interesting..........a fighter dual weilding bittercuts may be more powerful then a fighter with abydons hammer

[Blunderboss]

Heh Think about it that way : if you use Bittercut with rogue and Spirit of Decay , SoD will boost base damage of Bittercut before that damage is Boosted by 50% SA , 100 % DB , 150% Backstab  , obviously fighter cant even come close to this , Annihilation on sabre will always be : 6-9 Damage on final attack resolution , and only when you crit

However , some builds just dont have enough space for SoD talent or they need to pass other DPS talents for that so Resolution + Purgatory can be just as good , also you wont always have Mold to spare or even dont have Mold at all , some build might end up missing some Recovery Speed then you kinda have to opt for Rimecutters etc .

 

Also Rogue with 0 Recovery , Unlabored Blade and Vent Pick using scion of flame could be a pretender to max DPS , especially if it is main character and can get Flick of the Wrist talent 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Kingsman]

Heh Think about it that way : if you use Bittercut with rogue and Spirit of Decay , SoD will boost base damage of Bittercut before that damage is Boosted by 50% SA , 100 % DB , 150% Backstab , obviously fighter cant even come close to this , Annihilation on sabre will always be : 6-9 Damage on final attack resolution , and only when you crit

However , some builds just dont have enough space for SoD talent or they need to pass other DPS talents for that so Resolution + Purgatory can be just as good , also you wont always have Mold to spare or even dont have Mold at all , some build might end up missing some Recovery Speed then you kinda have to opt for Rimecutters etc .

 

Also Rogue with 0 Recovery , Unlabored Blade and Vent Pick using scion of flame could be a pretender to max DPS , especially if it is main character and can get Flick of the Wrist talent

 

I tried unlabored blade and march steel dagger vs resolution and purgatory. The sabres literally obliterated the daggers. The base damage from the sabres is to high as it has a stacking additive effect.

 

I think the sabres would seriously out damage unlabored blade and vent pick

 

And whay would annilation on sabres only be 6-9 damage I though it increase damage by 50%

Edited April 27, 2016 by Kingsman

[Blunderboss]

Annihilation is additive +50% of your base ( and only when you crit ) , sabre base is 13-19 

Unlabored blades damage comes from firebugs ( Firebug from Unlabored Blade and FoD from Vent Pick probably works with Deathblows too as deathblows currently give you +100% Damage to everything ) , you need firebug to be able to bounce for max damage tho 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Blunderboss

[MaxQuest]

Interesting..........a fighter dual weilding bittercuts may be more powerful then a fighter with abydons hammer

It depends on the kind of target you are attacking

Against Alpine Dragon, for example, the hammer will be useless.

Against Llengrath pets, the hammer would be better; because they are immune to corrode and have higher DR against slash than crush.

 

The beauty of Bittercut lies not only in Spirit of Decay, but the fact of dual damage type itself. Think blights.

The beauty of Hammer comes from the free stun per-encounter. And 4 bonus might (although this is more important to other classes than rogue)

 

And whay would annilation on sabres only be 6-9 damage I though it increase damage by 50%

No, annihilation adds 0.5 to the damage coefficient.

 

For example: you have 15 might, superb weapon and crit with an annihilation weapon on a sneak attack. The damage coefficient is going to be: 0.15+0.45+1.5+0.5+0.5 = 3.1

This coefficient is multiplied by your weapon damage roll. In case of sabre, it is a random number from 13 to 19. That's your damage.

And that's why rogue can deal solid damage with average might, and doesn't need annihilation that much in the late game when he has a weapon of high quality, but is heavy dependent on sneak attacks and deathblows.

 

Unlabored blades damage comes from firebugs ( Firebug from Unlabored Blade and FoD from Vent Pick probably works with Deathblows too )

We'll need to test this. I was surprised to see that Divine Mark from Silver Flash didn't benefit from deathblows. Edited April 27, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Blunderboss]

Hmm i just respec one of my rogues on endgame save to test Unlabored , Vent Pick , Scion of Flame build with Deathblows , and in combat log it simply says "Roguename cast Flames of Devotion" without any further attack resolution, tho my FoD  seems to be hitting for 68-72 damage on Deathblows target , anyway targets die so fast that its hard to see anything or even get anything to proc as i dont have much of enemies left on this save 

[Kingsman]

Hmm i just respec one of my rogues on endgame save to test Unlabored , Vent Pick , Scion of Flame build with Deathblows , and in combat log it simply says "Roguename cast Flames of Devotion" without any further attack resolution, tho my FoD  seems to be hitting for 68-72 damage on Deathblows target , anyway targets die so fast that its hard to see anything or even get anything to proc as i dont have much of enemies left on this save

 

I still think pergatory and resolution, dual bittercuts and dual rimecutters would considerably out dps the unlabored blade and vent pick.

 

I have issues with procc weapons like unlabored blade, namely, the 10% proc for the fire bug on hit or crit is kind of misleading. If you look at it at a attack/ proc ratio it is more like you will get the fire big to go off 6% every time you attack with the dagger due to it not proccing on misses and grazes and I think the enemies still get a secondary save vs deflection again even after it's procced to miss the damage from it. So it will go off roughly one in every 20 times you attack with it. This is to unreliable for me I would prefer high damage per second weapons like the sabres and rime-cutter.

 

The FOD from vent pick is also kind of misleading. A pally FOD will give you an extra 20 accuracy whenever the pally uses it. Since the vent picks FOD only procs after a hit is succesful you miss out on that extra accuracey. Not FOD at all really more like a strong fire lash, that can also be unreliable.

[Blunderboss]

Sabres are always good choice , as they provide highe base damage from the go , but i dont think Rimecutter can ever be better than Unlabored Blade , Using Unlabored + Rimecutter will always be better than dual Rimecutters .

Unlabored Blade can easily be made into Mythic it gives +65% Damage and +23 (18 Mythic +5 Dagger, another +4 if your rogue is MC and has Flick of the Wrist) Accuracy on top of 2 Healing Chains , 1 Dimensional Shift , and chance to Cast firebug ( even if its low chance ) and the 1.2 Speed enchant which is the only reason to pick Rimecutter in the first place 

The accuracy difference itself between Exceptional Rimecutter and Mythic Unlabored Blade with Flick of the Wrist is 19 , you can enchant rimecutter to superb with rare ingredient and it will still be 15 accuracy difference .

Edited April 28, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Kingsman]

Sabres are always good choice , as they provide highe base damage from the go , but i dont think Rimecutter can ever be better than Unlabored Blade , Using Unlabored + Rimecutter will always be better than dual Rimecutters

 

What happens when you dual with one fast weapon (dagger) and one average speed weapon battleaxe? Does the slower axe affect the speed from the fast dagger?

[Blunderboss]

They just have different attack speed in frames ,

You still have 0 recovery with both of them considering you stack enough of speed modifiers .

[Kingsman]

Sabres are always good choice , as they provide highe base damage from the go , but i dont think Rimecutter can ever be better than Unlabored Blade , Using Unlabored + Rimecutter will always be better than dual Rimecutters .

Unlabored Blade can easily be made into Mythic it gives +65% Damage and +23 (18 Mythic +5 Dagger, another +4 if your rogue is MC and has Flick of the Wrist) Accuracy on top of 2 Healing Chains , 1 Dimensional Shift , and chance to Cast firebug ( even if its low chance ) and the 1.2 Speed enchant which is the only reason to pick Rimecutter in the first place 

The accuracy difference itself between Exceptional Rimecutter and Mythic Unlabored Blade with Flick of the Wrist is 19 , you can enchant rimecutter to superb with rare ingredient and it will still be 15 accuracy difference .

If your playing a rogue accuracy will never be a problem and you will hit 99% of the time anyway. You can enchant rimecutter to legendary with wm2 expansion the accuracey difference is no where near 15.

 

I honestly don't think unlabored blade Is in contention with this. I have heard the bittercut argument and I agree with that but the daggers base damage is to low for the additive modifiers to stack high enough.

 

I honestly don't think unlabored blade would be even in the top 5 highest dps weapons, possibly not in the top 10.

[KDubya]

All Rimecutter has going for it is speed. Unlabored Blade has a whole list of goodness that comes with it.

 

I'd rather have Strike Hard warhammer with its speed and disorienting plus the dual damage type than Rimecutter.

 

My favorite Rogue weapon is Starcaller Flail - fast speed, speed enchant,  missile spell proc on crit and stun on crit. Rogues crit a lot. You will stun lock your foe. Add in the bash spell proc tattered veils shield and you will be a stun locking spell procing dynamo with a really good deflection.

[Braven]

Firebug can do crazy damage with the right build. The key is zero-recovery and wearing a shield (without bash) to maximum its procs. One weapon is just as good as two weapons if you can attack fast enough. It is basically the same as if you copied it and you get the added benefits of a shield as a bonus. It is just a little harder to get zero recovery because you can't take two-weapon fighting.

 

One nice thing about firebug is that it doesn't depend on class abilities or talents to be good (except scion of flame). I like it with barbarians and melee wizards the best. Both don't have full attack abilities, damage modifiers, or lashes which make dual sabers better. Wizards also benefit from Scion of Flame and can easy increase attack speed with a third level spell and barbarians can proc. the firebug with carnage and also have good class abilities for increasing speed. Wizards generally want a (small) shield anyways when spell casting. Firebug can do hundreds of damage since it bounces all around and has a large base damage.

 

Early game, double speed weapons is best since it won't be until late game where you can use other weapons fast enough. Two can be obtained early in the game without fighting.

[Kingsman]

All Rimecutter has going for it is speed. Unlabored Blade has a whole list of goodness that comes with it.

 

I'd rather have Strike Hard warhammer with its speed and disorienting plus the dual damage type than Rimecutter.

 

My favorite Rogue weapon is Starcaller Flail - fast speed, speed enchant,  missile spell proc on crit and stun on crit. Rogues crit a lot. You will stun lock your foe. Add in the bash spell proc tattered veils shield and you will be a stun locking spell procing dynamo with a really good deflection.

Rime cutter has annilation and speed. The two best properties you can get for increasing dps

[Kingsman]

Currently it seems that Spirit of Decay increases bittercuts base damage and then every +X% Lash scales of increased damage(corossive lashes even scale twice , once from increased base and then its 30% instead of 25% because of spirit of decay ) , and if you have two bittercuts it gets nasty

Hey I built this, using bittercut and spirit of decay. Spirit of decay doesn't seem to be increasing my base damage?

 

When I check the attack log it usuall says something like John Doe hits xantrip for 28 corrode damage + 9 corrode damage.

 

And it doesn't even say that I hit the xantrip for 37 total damage it's just says " xantrip hit for 28 corrode damage"

 

Confusing. Anyone no what is going on?

[Blunderboss]

It does increase it , just it doesnt write it in combat log like that ( Spirit of Decay wont be mentioned in attack resolution )

Also every +% Lash is like different fraction of attack , if you have FoD , Corrosive Lash , Remember Rakhan Field , Intense Flames all of them will be separate small number in your attack resolution ( Even FoD and Intense Flames are considered 2 different lashes one of 50% and another of 25% ) Your End result might look like this in combat log :

X Corrosive/Slash Damage + 50%X Fire+ 25%X Fire +30%X Corrode +30%X Corrode ( Corrode lashes get boosted by SoD once again making it 30% , you can boost fire lashes with Scion of Flame too ) 

 

Im currently rolling with another Elemental Weapon firebrand and with its big numbers is much easier to see how Scion of Flame affects its damage .

Edited May 5, 2016 by Blunderboss