Help me pick weapons for my Rogue plz

[Dorftek]

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

[ottffsse]

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

You can calculate it out based on what you need.

 

You need a final sum of 2.0 to have zero recovery. Any thing more is wasted.

 

Right now it is 1.2x1.2 so 1.44.

 

Durgan would be (on both weapons) 1.2x1.15x1.2x1.15 so 1.9!

Outlanders French is another x 1.25 on top

Frenzy from sanguine plate x1.33

Potion of delirious alacrity x 1.5

 

(In all cases above multiply not add!)

 

Now two weapon style is additive so you have +.20 if you have that talent

Vulnerable attack you also subtract -.20

 

Dex bonus is added so around 18 dex is +.22 etc whatever that modifier is.

 

Armor penalty you subtract so a plate would be -.50

 

If the plate us durganized it is .15 less than its original value so durganized sanguine plate is -.35 for example.

 

First multiply then add / subtract.

 

Durganized sanguine plate is best on dual wield rogue as you will get crit but then go into frenzy with the 1.35 multiplier to speed. Let's you ignore taking two weapon style and outlanders frenzy basically and still getvto 0 recovery consistently.

Edited March 28, 2016 by ottffsse

[MaxQuest]

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

Do you have TwoWeaponStyle talent? And what kind of armor do you wear?

[Crucis]

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

 

Hmmm.  I don't know this from experience, but given that you can enchant Devil's body like it was any other non-soulbound armor, I see no reason (yet) why you couldn't Durganize it.

[Boeroer]

Outlander's French! That's when the trash talk starts, right?

[KDubya]

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

 

 

If you durgan steel the two rimecutters and have two weapon style you get 1.2(speed) x 1.15 (durgan) x 1.2 (speed) x 1.15 (durgan) = 1.904 add in 0.2 (dual wield) and you get 2.1 which is zero recovery naked or with durgan hide.

 

If you want to use vulnerable attack you need more speed. Using the gauntlets gets you 2.19 +0.2 - 0.2 = 2.19 which is enough for durgan leather and almost enough for durgan scale.

 

You can replace the gauntlets with Outlander's Frenzy instead of the gauntlets. - 2.38 +0.2*0.2 = 2.38 enough for durgan plate or normal scale.

[Crucis]

Her body armor is also good if you want to dual wield. Reach weapons and ranged seem to be a suboptimal choice though.

 

Not sure why you think that ranged or reach weapons seem sub-optimal for Devil.  Is it because her "body" is effectively the same as an enchantable breastplate with the 40% recovery?  Or is it due to her low base DEX of 10?  It seems to me that her "armor" just isn't going to be all that great, though if you have her wear a Blunting Belt, it certainly helps.  She seems like a great candidate for a reach weapon user that you can have fight from behind the front line, poking merrily away with Tall Grass, etc.

 

OTOH, as you pointed out above, her body is immune to a number of effects, and you could use her as bait and have a spellcaster drop spells on top of her (after drawing in the enemy, of course) and watch them melt away.  I will say though, that this tactic would require the player to have a good, solid knowledge of what Devil's unique immunities are.  And your point about Bittercut is a great one.

 

 

I'm beginning to think that some players look at Devil's attributes and think that she's got bad stats for a rogue (which arguably she does), but ignore the abilities and immunities that come from her unique construction. 

[Boeroer]

I meant that a pike user doesn't want to have an armor with 40% recov. penalty. If you stay behind the front line you can do with lighter armor and gain speed.

 

Of course the Devil can use a pike. It's just not optimal. Doesn't mean it's bad.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Boeroer

[Teioh_White]

Another option for the Attack speed enthusiast is Svef. Only 15% compared to Swift's, 20%, Outlander's 25%, or Alacrity's 50%, but can be used by non-rangers for the former, lasts through longer battles unlike Frenzy, and is easier to maintain full uptime with unlike the latter. Tends to be my go-to way to push that little bit of extra attack speed.

[Boeroer]

That's right. Only bad thing about it is the annoying crash afterwards. Bu if you're going to rest anyway, it's cool.

 

Potion of Power is also an ok way to boost your attack speed (25%). It's way easier to craft than the potion of Alacrity and also has a stat buff. For some chars Alacrity means overdoing it, so Potion of Power is the way to go.

[Dorftek]

 

 

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

Do you have TwoWeaponStyle talent? And what kind of armor do you wear?

I was wearing -45 armour, replaced it with a -25 armour. Durganized the Rimecutters and used the gauntlets. My attack speed was awesome then, however, I'm starting to think that a dual wield Rogue is just bad because no matter what I do enemies just swarm him as soon as he gets out of stealth no matter how long I wait before sending him in. I ran several tests against a bunch of ice trolls using first a fighter tank and then a Barbarian tank. The fact that the barbarian was constantly damaging them didn't bother them at all, they just went straight for my Rogue once the Rogue started hacking.

 

Bad aggro mechanics makes the dual wield Rogue way to risky to use in the late game

 

I'll try and replace him with a "glass Cannon" inspired fighter instead.

[Boeroer]

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

If this is still lame - go for the fighter.

[JerekKruger]

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

This is my preferred way of running melee rogues now, and with appropriately chosen weapons and armour you can get close to 0 recovery still, making them close to if not as good as dual wielders.

[Dorftek]

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

If this is still lame - go for the fighter.

Ok I'll do it! I just kind of dislike the idea of a Rogue using a shield

But I'll try it!

[Blunderboss]

Im playing Melee rogue MC right now and and he almost never gets attacked and even if he does thats by lesser enemies and he can solo kill a bunch of those , I started with average stats and i havent used any of the "oh **** button" talents like escape or shadowing beyond ( i have cape of the cheat tho and that helps but i mostly use it offensively to jump into back line of enemies and murder them )

Rogue was kinda weak in act one , and now im sure that in act one only safe choices are reach weapon or ranged weapon most of the time and that is perfectly fine , in act 1 blocking door is main tactic anyway . As soon as u get to defiance bay( lvl 4) u can make ur melee rogue beast .

Using Dagger and Rapier with Speeed , Outlanders Frenzy and Dual Wield talent u can have 0 recovery at lvl 4 , but u should use some kind of armor ( eders second chance works just fine and ur recovery is still very short with Outlanders Frenzy up , i would never go beyond scale tho more than 35% recovey penalty is simply too much with rogue and 2-3 more DR wont save u ) , passing some time in stronghold untill thief visitor arives for cape of the cheat is good choice also ( this is not stronghold adventure its stronghold visitor and those can come by while simply passing time ) , with these items and a fighter tank who has 4-5 engagement slots and one more melee body ( paladin/barb/monk/rangers bear etc ) ur rogue should never have trouble being swarmed by enemies , although its worth mentioning that u must wait at start of the combat for your team to grab agro , and only then move into melee range , use outlanders frenzy and kill everyone , i usually wait for melee enemies to swarm my tanks and then use cape of the cheat to teleport into backline where enemy casters are . Its good to have some casters in your team who can crowd control from range ( cipher is rogues best friend ) in case your rogue gets in trouble , u should never try to out heal that trouble better to crowd control it so ur rogue can either kill it or run away , but this Should not happen often , and when it does Second Chance armor/ring should bring u right back up , and it gets easier and easier to play melee rogue with more levels and items , also having some athletics ( 5 is enough for me ) helps , rest u should spread between stealth and survival

Edited March 28, 2016 by Blunderboss

[Dorftek]

Im playing Melee rogue MC right now and and he almost never gets attacked and even if he does thats by lesser enemies and he can solo kill a bunch of those , I started with average stats and i havent used any of the "oh **** button" talents like escape or shadowing beyond ( i have cape of the cheat tho and that helps but i mostly use it offensively to jump into back line of enemies and murder them )

Rogue was kinda weak in act one , and now im sure that in act one only safe choices are reach weapon or ranged weapon most of the time and that is perfectly fine , in act 1 blocking door is main tactic anyway . As soon as u get to defiance bay( lvl 4) u can make ur melee rogue beast .

Using Dagger and Rapier with Speeed , Outlanders Frenzy and Dual Wield talent u can have 0 recovery at lvl 4 , but u should use some kind of armor ( eders second chance works just fine and ur recovery is still very short with Outlanders Frenzy up , i would never go beyond scale tho more than 35% recovey penalty is simply too much with rogue and 2-3 more DR wont save u ) , passing some time in stronghold untill thief visitor arives for cape of the cheat is good choice also ( this is not stronghold adventure its stronghold visitor and those can come by while simply passing time ) , with these items and a fighter tank who has 4-5 engagement slots and one more melee body ( paladin/barb/monk/rangers bear etc ) ur rogue should never have trouble being swarmed by enemies , although its worth mentioning that u must wait at start of the combat for your team to grab agro , and only then move into melee range , use outlanders frenzy and kill everyone , i usually wait for melee enemies to swarm my tanks and then use cape of the cheat to teleport into backline where enemy casters are . Its good to have some casters in your team who can crowd control from range ( cipher is rogues best friend ) in case your rogue gets in trouble , u should never try to out heal that trouble better to crowd control it so ur rogue can either kill it or run away , but this Should not happen often , and when it does Second Chance armor/ring should bring u right back up , and it gets easier and easier to play melee rogue with more levels and items

Yeah this used to work good for me too. Played a stunlocker dual wield Rogue for backline killing. Played that guy up until lvl 10 and it worked fine. In white March on this new Rogue it was a different story. Mobs are too fast. :/

[Dorftek]

 

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

If this is still lame - go for the fighter.

Ok I'll do it! I just kind of dislike the idea of a Rogue using a shield

But I'll try it!

Respecced my Rogue, used the Mold for another durganized Badgradr's Barricade and gave it to him. 91 deflection right now. I'll try it out tomorrow, time for sleep

[Crucis]

 

 

My Rogue is now wearing double Rimecutter and gloves of Swift Action. My recovery is still quite big, does the durgan steel make that much difference? Do I use the steel on armour or weapons?

Do you have TwoWeaponStyle talent? And what kind of armor do you wear?

I was wearing -45 armour, replaced it with a -25 armour. Durganized the Rimecutters and used the gauntlets. My attack speed was awesome then, however, I'm starting to think that a dual wield Rogue is just bad because no matter what I do enemies just swarm him as soon as he gets out of stealth no matter how long I wait before sending him in. I ran several tests against a bunch of ice trolls using first a fighter tank and then a Barbarian tank. The fact that the barbarian was constantly damaging them didn't bother them at all, they just went straight for my Rogue once the Rogue started hacking.

 

Bad aggro mechanics makes the dual wield Rogue way to risky to use in the late game

 

I'll try and replace him with a "glass Cannon" inspired fighter instead.

 

 

 

I played a Rogue PC in my last party, and in WM (particularly WM2) a lot of the enemies had a serious urge to go straight for my Rogue, or sometimes Aloth, if he was in the party.  They seem to go after the character with either the lowest DEFL or maybe it's the lowest # of HP.  When I replaced Aloth with GM, who was considerably tougher, those same enemies seemed to ignore her and prefer chasing after my Rogue.

 

If you get in this situation, it's probably best for the rogue to be close to the tougher members of your party so that they can assist him.  If you weak character gets separated from the group, he may die rather quickly.  Or require a priest to cast a Withdraw spell on him.

 

 

 

 

[Dorftek]

Hello again, yeah I know I said I was going to sleep but, I had to test this shield rogue that Boeroer asked me to, so I did... And, well, yeah I admit, it's SUPER AWESOME!

 

I also picked up Hiravanis instead of my third Barbarian O_o

 

I then went to Longwatch for the first time ever where I suddenly stumbled across a cave. I had to explore this cave before I go to sleep I thought. So I went in, took a few steps and WHOAA DRAGON! After being humiliated by the Adra Dragon several times I thought there was no point in trying this one but I thought what the hell, I'll give it a shot. Rogue blinded dragon, Hiravanis permalocked adds with relentless storm, Hiravanis then petrified the dragon and my grp killed him in seconds.. Wtf? Druid OP or what?

 

Anyway, I killed a dragon! Yay!

 

Goodnight now, for real!

[Crucis]

Good work, Dorftek.  Sometimes, you have just the right party mix for the situation you run into, and then things go so much easier.

 

While I have little doubt that almost any party mix can be made to work most of the time, sometimes certain party mixes are better than others in specific situations.  It may be that you unknowingly hit one of those "right party mix" for the right enemy situations.

[Blades of Vanatar]

I've found that when using Rogues it is advantageous to have ALL of my characters with similar deflection/DR builds. Seems to me the Enemy then spreads out and does not want to swarm any one character. This works for most of the game. Just switch back to heavy armour for boss fights.

[Boeroer]

 

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

If this is still lame - go for the fighter.

Ok I'll do it! I just kind of dislike the idea of a Rogue using a shield

But I'll try it!

Great. Tell me what you think. That shield is awesome for a crit based rogue.

 

Edit: wow - missed a whole page...sorry. Great you tried!

Edited March 29, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dorftek]

 

 

Please try a weapon & shield rogue before giving up. With deflection over 80 and higher DR he will not get swarmed anymore and will still do good damage - especially when focusing on crits and using Badgradr's Barricade. You can try it with Rimecutter.

 

If this is still lame - go for the fighter.

Ok I'll do it! I just kind of dislike the idea of a Rogue using a shield

But I'll try it!

Great. Tell me what you think. That shield is awesome for a crit based rogue.

 

Edit: wow - missed a whole page...sorry. Great you tried!

I did and I'm actually loving it. I just now gave him the soulbound mace to see what it's like fully upgraded

 

Went down and killed Adra Dragon now and found little savior shield, what a nice find! Gave it to my Barbarian off tank. It also stacks with the paladins Buckler for a total of +10 to all defenses grpwide!

 

Fun times! BTW can I get more Adra scales somehow?

[Boeroer]

Sadly no. The two heraldic shields are also my favourite. If you duplicate little savior you will have +15 to all defenses.

[Elric Galad]

But you can get bog dragon scales which are even better.