Brussels Airport Explosions

[Meshugger]

 

gonna watch REMOVE KEBAB infinite loop rest of the day

 

whats funny if i still worked in New Mecca i would've been caught in one of those blasts

 

Didn't even know that meme. Turns out its Serbian :D

 

 

Yup, here's more:

 

[Blarghagh]

 

 

 

 

There would not be problem if major muslim population would not cover these extremists

 

 

Yeah I mean it should be easy for an incredibly large, ethnically and culturally diverse population, to unite against extremism.  

 

 

Yeah, I mean, it's not like all Christians aren't the same too, right?

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'm curious as to what constitutes a win scenario for the bombers. They must have a strategy. Perhaps they think European ground forces in Syria would lead to a favorable outcome. That would make it easier to sell the whole race/culture war.  Maybe they want muslims and immgrants in Europe to experience more discrimination, escalating internal unrest. 

 

Maybe they just forgot why along the way. 

 

And I'm curious what constitutes a win scenario for the EU, since they aren't dialing down their immigration policies and the entire handling of the refugee crisis was bizarre from the start. Never have I seen nominally powerful nations with so little control over what happens at their borders.

What are we hoping for here? To destroy ISIS? So what, a new ISIS will emerge somewhere else under some other name. Relocate and reeducate the entire ME? lol wut

[Chilloutman]

i like how bruce dodged that my qustions about percentage of fundamental muslims

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

There would not be problem if major muslim population would not cover these extremists

 

 

Yeah I mean it should be easy for an incredibly large, ethnically and culturally diverse population, to unite against extremism.  

 

 

what do you talking about, they are all French right? xD

[Meshugger]

 

I'm curious as to what constitutes a win scenario for the bombers. They must have a strategy. Perhaps they think European ground forces in Syria would lead to a favorable outcome. That would make it easier to sell the whole race/culture war.  Maybe they want muslims and immgrants in Europe to experience more discrimination, escalating internal unrest. 

 

Maybe they just forgot why along the way. 

 

And I'm curious what constitutes a win scenario for the EU, since they aren't dialing down their immigration policies and the entire handling of the refugee crisis was bizarre from the start. Never have I seen nominally powerful nations with so little control over what happens at their borders.

What are we hoping for here? To destroy ISIS? So what, a new ISIS will emerge somewhere else under some other name. Relocate and reeducate the entire ME? lol wut

 

 

Only through learning how to tolerate and love our enemies, our wars are won. There is no other way, just look on how WWII was won.

[BruceVC]

i like how bruce dodged that my qustions about percentage of fundamental muslims

I didnt dodge it but how would you know? There aren't accurate statistics and there are different types and degrees  of Islamic Extremism, for example what about people who fund terrorism but wont actually take part in an attack...do we consider them Islamic Extremists ?

 

So it gets complicated to calculate accurate numbers

[Chilloutman]

 

i like how bruce dodged that my qustions about percentage of fundamental muslims

I didnt dodge it but how would you know? There aren't accurate statistics and there are different types and degrees  of Islamic Extremism, for example what about people who fund terrorism but wont actually take part in an attack...do we consider them Islamic Extremists ?

 

So it gets complicated to calculate accurate numbers

 

 

Exactly xD

 

I dont know how trustworthy is this text but still, quite scarry even if 5% of its content was true

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428146/more-than-few-islamic-extremists

Edited March 22, 2016 by Chilloutman

[Gorgon]

 

I'm curious as to what constitutes a win scenario for the bombers. They must have a strategy. Perhaps they think European ground forces in Syria would lead to a favorable outcome. That would make it easier to sell the whole race/culture war.  Maybe they want muslims and immgrants in Europe to experience more discrimination, escalating internal unrest. 

 

Maybe they just forgot why along the way. 

 

And I'm curious what constitutes a win scenario for the EU, since they aren't dialing down their immigration policies and the entire handling of the refugee crisis was bizarre from the start. Never have I seen nominally powerful nations with so little control over what happens at their borders.

What are we hoping for here? To destroy ISIS? So what, a new ISIS will emerge somewhere else under some other name. Relocate and reeducate the entire ME? lol wut

 

We wanted to help to begin with. Clearly we underestimated the challenge. Now there is a deal with Turkey, you might have noticed. 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-deal-between-turkey-and-eu-sparks-chaos-on-greek-islands-a6943066.html

[Drowsy Emperor]

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. It smells more of desperation - throw money at the problem until it hopefully goes away, than a 'deal'.

 

Besides he can use the refugees to blackmail the EU like that for years to come.

[BruceVC]

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. It smells more of desperation - throw money at the problem until it hopefully goes away, than a 'deal'.

 

Besides he can use the refugees to blackmail the EU like that for years to come.

No its good to throw money at the problem

 

Turkey is a Muslim country, I'm sure they will have a much better understanding and empathy towards fellow Muslims than most  people  in the EU

 

Its a good idea to send them back to Turkey

[Malcador]

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. 

 

Now I wonder how many wars were sparked over people's insecurities about how "weak" or "strong" their country will be seen as.

[HoonDing]

"Turkey is a Muslim country, I'm sure they will have a much better understanding and empathy towards fellow Muslims than most  people  in the EU"

 

[Chilloutman]

 

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. It smells more of desperation - throw money at the problem until it hopefully goes away, than a 'deal'.

 

Besides he can use the refugees to blackmail the EU like that for years to come.

No its good to throw money at the problem

 

Turkey is a Muslim country, I'm sure they will have a much better understanding and empathy towards fellow Muslims than most  people  in the EU

 

Its a good idea to send them back to Turkey

 

 

what is point of agreemend that Turkey will take back refugees if we agree with them on non-visa open border??

[BruceVC]

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

It may appear like that but this is a very complicated situation and we need to consider the views of countries directly impacted by the arrival of thousands of refugees

[Drowsy Emperor]

"Turkey is a Muslim country, I'm sure they will have a much better understanding and empathy towards fellow Muslims than most  people  in the EU"

 

 

Yes, a friend from Turkey explained to me that they don't allow the refugees to work there by not giving them the necessary paperwork. So they're eventually going to get rid of them by dumping them on someone else.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. 

 

Now I wonder how many wars were sparked over people's insecurities about how "weak" or "strong" their country will be seen as.

 

 

Many, because its an important metric. How things appear in the international arena is just or even more important than how it actually is. 

[teknoman2]

 

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

It may appear like that but this is a very complicated situation and we need to consider the views of countries directly impacted by the arrival of thousands of refugees

 

the thing is though that, like in the Paris attacks, the perpetrators may prove to be locals and not jihadists that came in among the refugees.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

It may appear like that but this is a very complicated situation and we need to consider the views of countries directly impacted by the arrival of thousands of refugees

 

the thing is though that, like in the Paris attacks, the perpetrators may prove to be locals and not jihadists that came in among the refugees.

 

Oh dont misunderstand me, you are correct that in some EU countries you already have  established Islamic Extremism ....and that will have to be dealt with. But that is a separate issue to sending the refugees back to Turkey.

 

Also I have asked this numerous times...why cant the Sunni countries in the ME like Saudi Arabia, Qatar or UAE take in fellow Muslims?

 

But the expectation is that Western, primarily Christian countries with completely different values and cultural norms will be able to absorb millions ? 

[Meshugger]

 

 

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

It may appear like that but this is a very complicated situation and we need to consider the views of countries directly impacted by the arrival of thousands of refugees

 

the thing is though that, like in the Paris attacks, the perpetrators may prove to be locals and not jihadists that came in among the refugees.

 

 

Uh, one of the shooters at the Bataclan theatre was registered as a refugee in august 2015.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. 

 

Now I wonder how many wars were sparked over people's insecurities about how "weak" or "strong" their country will be seen as.

 

 

Many, because its an important metric. How things appear in the international arena is just or even more important than how it actually is. 

 

 

 

I'm not convinced.

 

Could you offer examples where the perception of the appearance of things by outside actors was the source of a conflict, instead of the projection of said perception by insider decision-makers?

Edited March 22, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

Heh, kind of cold to make deals about people like that

It may appear like that but this is a very complicated situation and we need to consider the views of countries directly impacted by the arrival of thousands of refugees

 

the thing is though that, like in the Paris attacks, the perpetrators may prove to be locals and not jihadists that came in among the refugees.

 

 

Uh, one of the shooters at the Bataclan theatre was registered as a refugee in august 2015.

 

 

Yeah, one.  The vast majority of these attackers do not need to wait in line with the refugees.  They have the resources to get around that.

[BruceVC]

It appears ISIS has now accepted responsibility for the attacks in Brussels 

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

I see paying off the Turks to keep the masses off your hands as a sign of tremendous weakness. 

 

Now I wonder how many wars were sparked over people's insecurities about how "weak" or "strong" their country will be seen as.

 

 

Many, because its an important metric. How things appear in the international arena is just or even more important than how it actually is. 

 

 

 

I'm not convinced.

 

Could you offer examples where the perception of the appearance of things by outside actors was the source of a conflict, instead of the projection of said perception by insider decision-makers?

 

 

I took the "people's"  as referring to decision makers, not the masses. The masses aren't a source of anything without someone to direct them.

 

Not sure how that relates to my initial comment. Paying millions to Erdogan to keep the refugees in Turkey instead of spending those same millions to secure the border is a move that a strong actor wouldn't make. Simply because:

a. there is no guarantee that Erdogan will keep his word

b. even if he does, why would you empower an Islamist hard liner that cooperated with ISIL by keeping the borders open for their volunteers. A part of the problem can hardly go to sleep and wake up as a solution?

c. it implies that the EU can't control its borders and needs external actors to secure them

Edited March 22, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor