The REAL state of the USA : Fact vs Fiction

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

Bruce, quit trying to SouthAfricansplain what conditions are like in the US to Americans.  It's pretty disrespectful.

No sorry, I was about to never ever comment on the USA again but now I realize my views are misunderstood....so I have to start all over again 

 

I like you Vaeliorin, you seem to be sincere so I'll be honest 

 

Why would you think the word " disrespectful "  would be appropriate around me stopping....disrespectful has never been a word I even considered. I have said it must be annoying at times

 

But do you think just because you live in the USA you are an authority on the political reality or that must mean I surly cant have a valid point?  Come on dude thats such a strange thing to say .....its like you think the USA operates in a vacuum

 

But for me I will never stop commenting  on the USA because the USA is part of much more important view I have around Western ideology and how important that is to overall global prosperity. I'm sorry you got pulled into a broader reality but its best you just get use to my comments or dispute them? Surly I cant be that bad?

 

Okay I tell you what....if 5 other Americans say the same to  me now I'll seriously consider your view...is that fair? I mean   the last thing I want to be seen as is inconsiderate 

 

How can voicing your opinion be disrespectful just because you don't live in America. That makes no sense, sorry Vaeliorin. Would my comments be considered disrespectful as well, because I was not born here? I have double citizenship at the moment, does that make my comments disrespectful?

 

I think the US is getting stronger economically. I think Obama had done yeomens work in his time in office. He is extremely smart and extremely well spoken.

 

I think there is still a lot that needs fixing in the US, but Trump is not the answer. Let's all build a wall to keep our neighbors out. It won't work, but just think of the jobs and the profits for Trump's buddies! Once we have sealed off Mexico, then let's keep those uppity Kanadian's out! Another wall! Yay! Then, I think we need completely isolate our country from the dang foreigners! Let's build walls on both coasts! Then we will finally have reached our Ostrich dream! Ha!

 

Too many people here keep their heads firmly in the sand, because if it didn't happen here, it didn't happen.

 

OK, enough with the sarcasm. Let's face it, the USA is the best country going in spite of it's ills. In spite of that statement, I will prolly leave the USA in a few years, but only because the job I want is not available here.

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. 

 

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

 

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Sweet_Sadie

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. 

 

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

 

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

 

 

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

[obyknven]

 

Russians wins international programming contest. Second place is China and Third place is Harvard (Chinese students lol, Murikan rednecks can't into science).

 
https://icpc.baylor.edu/scoreboard/\

Just interresting - if Murika so stronk why their education system can't produce smart people and they must compensate this by constant  importing of minds from Asia, Russia and East Europe. Such weakness can cause fall of entire Murikan Empire someday.

[HoonDing]

"Just interresting - if Murika so stronk why their education system can't produce smart people and they must compensate this by constant  importing of minds from Asia, Russia and East Europe. Such weakness can cause fall of entire Murikan Empire someday."

 

you don't need a degree to use a joystick

 

[obyknven]

"Just interresting - if Murika so stronk why their education system can't produce smart people and they must compensate this by constant  importing of minds from Asia, Russia and East Europe. Such weakness can cause fall of entire Murikan Empire someday."

 

you don't need a degree to use a joystick

 

Yep, and die like looser, because smart Russians hack your drones use cheats. 

http://youtu.be/lO_yA5Afy-E 

 

Dude it's pure Darwinism - stupid people can't rule the world - Murika deldanda est

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

Bruce, quit trying to SouthAfricansplain what conditions are like in the US to Americans.  It's pretty disrespectful.

No sorry, I was about to never ever comment on the USA again but now I realize my views are misunderstood....so I have to start all over again 

 

I like you Vaeliorin, you seem to be sincere so I'll be honest 

 

Why would you think the word " disrespectful "  would be appropriate around me stopping....disrespectful has never been a word I even considered. I have said it must be annoying at times

 

But do you think just because you live in the USA you are an authority on the political reality or that must mean I surly cant have a valid point?  Come on dude thats such a strange thing to say .....its like you think the USA operates in a vacuum

 

But for me I will never stop commenting  on the USA because the USA is part of much more important view I have around Western ideology and how important that is to overall global prosperity. I'm sorry you got pulled into a broader reality but its best you just get use to my comments or dispute them? Surly I cant be that bad?

 

Okay I tell you what....if 5 other Americans say the same to  me now I'll seriously consider your view...is that fair? I mean   the last thing I want to be seen as is inconsiderate 

 

How can voicing your opinion be disrespectful just because you don't live in America. That makes no sense, sorry Vaeliorin. Would my comments be considered disrespectful as well, because I was not born here? I have double citizenship at the moment, does that make my comments disrespectful?

Did you miss the post right below the one you quoted where I explained it was a joke?

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

 

 

Bruce, quit trying to SouthAfricansplain what conditions are like in the US to Americans.  It's pretty disrespectful.

 

No sorry, I was about to never ever comment on the USA again but now I realize my views are misunderstood....so I have to start all over again 

 

I like you Vaeliorin, you seem to be sincere so I'll be honest 

 

Why would you think the word " disrespectful "  would be appropriate around me stopping....disrespectful has never been a word I even considered. I have said it must be annoying at times

 

But do you think just because you live in the USA you are an authority on the political reality or that must mean I surly cant have a valid point?  Come on dude thats such a strange thing to say .....its like you think the USA operates in a vacuum

 

But for me I will never stop commenting  on the USA because the USA is part of much more important view I have around Western ideology and how important that is to overall global prosperity. I'm sorry you got pulled into a broader reality but its best you just get use to my comments or dispute them? Surly I cant be that bad?

 

Okay I tell you what....if 5 other Americans say the same to  me now I'll seriously consider your view...is that fair? I mean   the last thing I want to be seen as is inconsiderate 

How can voicing your opinion be disrespectful just because you don't live in America. That makes no sense, sorry Vaeliorin. Would my comments be considered disrespectful as well, because I was not born here? I have double citizenship at the moment, does that make my comments disrespectful?

Did you miss the post right below the one you quoted where I explained it was a joke?

Oops. Sorry, yes.

[obyknven]

Russians wins international programming contest. Second place is China and Third place is Harvard (Chinese students lol, Murikan rednecks can't into science).

https://icpc.baylor.edu/scoreboard/\

Fix own post.

2 place - Asians 

 

3 place - Asians 

 

6 place - Asians and sly Jewish guy from East Europe

 

1 place - Mongol hordes from Russia

 

Murika. Murika never changes.

 

P.S.  Do want translate to Engrish exelent article about Western culture and Western values with explanation why stupidity is national trait of Westlings... Later. 

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. 

 

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

 

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

 

 

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

 

I have read about Faust and about Dante's nine circles of Hell as well as other similar books.

I have read parts of Aquinas, but would counter that the bible is only relevant if you are reading Aquinas or other Christian authors. I think the Bible is only necessary if you wish to read more about Christianity which has long been the prevalent Western religion.

Yes I am young, but I am more well read than most people regardless of their age. In addition to reading the authors I talked about above, I have read Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Robert Pirsig, Carlos Castaneda, Hunter S. Thompson, and Douglas Hofstadter to name a few. I read my first philosophy book (Kierkegaard's Either Or) at the age of 8. I do not believe I needed to know the bible to understand any of those authors with the exception of the ones writing about Christian beliefs.

People often judge me because of my age, but I am more mature than most 25 year olds, and fairly intelligent as well

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above. 

 

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

 

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

 

 

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

 

I have read about Faust and about Dante's nine circles of Hell as well as other similar books.

I have read parts of Aquinas, but would counter that the bible is only relevant if you are reading Aquinas or other Christian authors. I think the Bible is only necessary if you wish to read more about Christianity which has long been the prevalent Western religion.

Yes I am young, but I am more well read than most people regardless of their age. In addition to reading the authors I talked about above, I have read Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Robert Pirsig, Carlos Castaneda, Hunter S. Thompson, and Douglas Hofstadter to name a few. I read my first philosophy book (Kierkegaard's Either Or) at the age of 8. I do not believe I needed to know the bible to understand any of those authors with the exception of the ones writing about Christian beliefs.

People often judge me because of my age, but I am more mature than most 25 year olds, and fairly intelligent as well

 

 

You're halfway there. To build up understanding requires times and wisdom, which comes with age no matter how you do it. Simply put, what i am talking about is the perspective to connect the dots. I recommend travelling to Europe and witness the classical arts and architecture in first hand and try to make friends with the locals, then you will notice how intervowen the stories and ethos in the Bible are to everyday society and interaction. 

 

Only young people care about their age and how mature they percieve to be to others (well, except for Bruce), you'll understand later. It's not an insult, i would be more worried if you weren't.

 

That being said, you have an inquiring mind and a seeker of knowledge. Don't ever stop doing that.

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

 

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above.

 

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

I have read about Faust and about Dante's nine circles of Hell as well as other similar books.

I have read parts of Aquinas, but would counter that the bible is only relevant if you are reading Aquinas or other Christian authors. I think the Bible is only necessary if you wish to read more about Christianity which has long been the prevalent Western religion.

Yes I am young, but I am more well read than most people regardless of their age. In addition to reading the authors I talked about above, I have read Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Robert Pirsig, Carlos Castaneda, Hunter S. Thompson, and Douglas Hofstadter to name a few. I read my first philosophy book (Kierkegaard's Either Or) at the age of 8. I do not believe I needed to know the bible to understand any of those authors with the exception of the ones writing about Christian beliefs.

People often judge me because of my age, but I am more mature than most 25 year olds, and fairly intelligent as well

You're halfway there. To build up understanding requires times and wisdom, which comes with age no matter how you do it. Simply put, what i am talking about is the perspective to connect the dots. I recommend travelling to Europe and witness the classical arts and architecture in first hand and try to make friends with the locals, then you will notice how intervowen the stories and ethos in the Bible are to everyday society and interaction.

 

Only young people care about their age and how mature they percieve to be to others (well, except for Bruce), you'll understand later. It's not an insult, i would be more worried if you weren't.

 

That being said, you have an inquiring mind and a seeker of knowledge. Don't ever stop doing that.

I politely disagree. Perhaps you needed age and wisdom to be able to connect the dots, I already connect them quite well thank you.

Have you been a Christian your entire life? Or have you experienced other religions?

Have you traveled to Europe? Give an example of how the archetecture is interwoven with the bible ethos.

In your opinion, the stories and ethos of the bible are more interwoven in Europe than here?

Perhaps, sans England. In my opinion, most Christians here have not read the bible. They can quote the parts that have been feed to them, along with the interpretation that was fed to them, but very few have read the bible.

Where were you born? Where do you ive? Just respond with "Europe" or "US" please. I don't want to be responsible for any phishing.

I was born in Europe and live in the US.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Sweet_Sadie

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above.

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

I have read about Faust and about Dante's nine circles of Hell as well as other similar books.

I have read parts of Aquinas, but would counter that the bible is only relevant if you are reading Aquinas or other Christian authors. I think the Bible is only necessary if you wish to read more about Christianity which has long been the prevalent Western religion.

Yes I am young, but I am more well read than most people regardless of their age. In addition to reading the authors I talked about above, I have read Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Robert Pirsig, Carlos Castaneda, Hunter S. Thompson, and Douglas Hofstadter to name a few. I read my first philosophy book (Kierkegaard's Either Or) at the age of 8. I do not believe I needed to know the bible to understand any of those authors with the exception of the ones writing about Christian beliefs.

People often judge me because of my age, but I am more mature than most 25 year olds, and fairly intelligent as well

You're halfway there. To build up understanding requires times and wisdom, which comes with age no matter how you do it. Simply put, what i am talking about is the perspective to connect the dots. I recommend travelling to Europe and witness the classical arts and architecture in first hand and try to make friends with the locals, then you will notice how intervowen the stories and ethos in the Bible are to everyday society and interaction.

 

Only young people care about their age and how mature they percieve to be to others (well, except for Bruce), you'll understand later. It's not an insult, i would be more worried if you weren't.

 

That being said, you have an inquiring mind and a seeker of knowledge. Don't ever stop doing that.

I politely disagree. Perhaps you needed age and wisdom to be able to connect the dots, I already connect them quite well thank you.

Have you been a Christian your entire life? Or have you experienced other religions?

Have you traveled to Europe? Give an example of how the archetecture is interwoven with the bible ethos.

In your opinion, the stories and ethos of the bible are more interwoven in Europe than here?

Perhaps, sans England. In my opinion, most Christians here have not read the bible. They can quote the parts that have been feed to them, along with the interpretation that was fed to them, but very few have read the bible.

Where were you born? Where do you ive? Just respond with "Europe" or "US" please. I don't want to be responsible for any phishing.

I was born in Europe and live in the US.

 

 

You should disagree, otherwise you would have the soul of an old git, which is quite detriment to a life of a teenager. I am raised Lutheran but I live an agnostic life, however i acknowledge the importance of religion is in a culture, as there are none and there hasn't ever been any great civilization without a founding religion. 

 

I am from northern Europe and i have travelled most of Europe (except for those areas where it expected to bribe the cops), some of Middle East and i have been the US twice (been in more than 20 states) and Canada. I can give the stories and i have heard or art i have seen in Vienna or a remote village in the mountains of Slovenia, but i find it more important that you experience that yourself in order to form your own opinion on if things, as i can assure you that it's quite a bore to lay down the metrics on cultural familiarity and build a thesis from it and having to read it. Exploring it yourself is much more rewarding.

 

You'll get it in due time.

[Sweet_Sadie]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then you have philosophers people should be familiar with if not at least aware of, but sadly a great many aren't: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Confucius, Aquinas, and Locke are all names one should know well.

 

I highly recommend reading all of the above.

 

I honestly fail to see how Confucius would be relevant to anybody in the western world, and I'm one of those people who read not only him, but also a sizeable chunk of the commentary and related works written by his most prominent students.

I must agree that Confucius is no longer relevant to Western Societies, but is he still relevant to Eastern Societies?

 

The only book store in walking distance when I was growing up was one that carried only books on Philosophy. I started reading Descartes When I was 8 and have read most of the published writings of everyone listed with the exception of St. Thomas Aquinas. I also feel that Nietzsche. Whether you appreciate him or not, he definitely contributed a lot to Western societies.

 

I object to including the Bible as necessary to understand Western authors and Western Society. It is, imo, pure fiction. I have read most of it because Christianity is so prevalent here. I am not at all sure that Jesus actually existed. I think he was a fictional character constructed to teach the "new" Christian values in the New Testament.

 

That said, I do believe in the Gods, all of them. There is no one true God. How could there possibly be just one? What about life on Planet 10 in the Eighth dimension? Surely they worship their own Gods. Yes my example is facetious but it makes the point. We don't know if there are other planets with intelligent life on them, but if there are I doubt they would be Christians. Robert L. Forward even postulated the possibility of intelligent life on a Neutron Star in his first novel, The Dragon's Egg.

 

For clarification, I am a Buddhist. I have studied religions of all sorts, including Mysticism and Shintoism as well as many others. The only one that makes sense to me is Buddhism, but I don't think it is really a religion. It is much more a path that one walks.

 

For reference (I don't want to be thought of as being ancient LOL) I am 16.

You're still young, but do read Thomas Aquinas, it will give you the necessary understanding on why the Bible is an important part of Western culture.

 

I also recommend to read about Faust.

I have read about Faust and about Dante's nine circles of Hell as well as other similar books.

I have read parts of Aquinas, but would counter that the bible is only relevant if you are reading Aquinas or other Christian authors. I think the Bible is only necessary if you wish to read more about Christianity which has long been the prevalent Western religion.

Yes I am young, but I am more well read than most people regardless of their age. In addition to reading the authors I talked about above, I have read Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, Robert Pirsig, Carlos Castaneda, Hunter S. Thompson, and Douglas Hofstadter to name a few. I read my first philosophy book (Kierkegaard's Either Or) at the age of 8. I do not believe I needed to know the bible to understand any of those authors with the exception of the ones writing about Christian beliefs.

People often judge me because of my age, but I am more mature than most 25 year olds, and fairly intelligent as well

You're halfway there. To build up understanding requires times and wisdom, which comes with age no matter how you do it. Simply put, what i am talking about is the perspective to connect the dots. I recommend travelling to Europe and witness the classical arts and architecture in first hand and try to make friends with the locals, then you will notice how intervowen the stories and ethos in the Bible are to everyday society and interaction.

 

Only young people care about their age and how mature they percieve to be to others (well, except for Bruce), you'll understand later. It's not an insult, i would be more worried if you weren't.

 

That being said, you have an inquiring mind and a seeker of knowledge. Don't ever stop doing that.

I politely disagree. Perhaps you needed age and wisdom to be able to connect the dots, I already connect them quite well thank you.

Have you been a Christian your entire life? Or have you experienced other religions?

Have you traveled to Europe? Give an example of how the archetecture is interwoven with the bible ethos.

In your opinion, the stories and ethos of the bible are more interwoven in Europe than here?

Perhaps, sans England. In my opinion, most Christians here have not read the bible. They can quote the parts that have been feed to them, along with the interpretation that was fed to them, but very few have read the bible.

Where were you born? Where do you ive? Just respond with "Europe" or "US" please. I don't want to be responsible for any phishing.

I was born in Europe and live in the US.

 

 

You should disagree, otherwise you would have the soul of an old git, which is quite detriment to a life of a teenager. I am raised Lutheran but I live an agnostic life, however i acknowledge the importance of religion is in a culture, as there are none and there hasn't ever been any great civilization without a founding religion. 

 

I am from northern Europe and i have travelled most of Europe (except for those areas where it expected to bribe the cops), some of Middle East and i have been the US twice (been in more than 20 states) and Canada. I can give the stories and i have heard or art i have seen in Vienna or a remote village in the mountains of Slovenia, but i find it more important that you experience that yourself in order to form your own opinion on if things, as i can assure you that it's quite a bore to lay down the metrics on cultural familiarity and build a thesis from it and having to read it. Exploring it yourself is much more rewarding.

 

You'll get it in due time.

 

I did not realize that all civilizations are based on a founding religion. I will look into that.

I was born in Paris but my family moved to the US when I was 3. I only have scattered bits and pieces of memory of Paris. My goal is to get my PhD in Quantum Mechanics from Cal Tech and then get a job with the ESA, exploring ways to improve communication and travel times for deep space exploration. I would apply at NASA, but they are a space agency in name only these days. They are still working on unmanned exploration of our solar system, but naught else.

[Meshugger]

^Good. Keep on rockin'!

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I did not realize that all civilizations are based on a founding religion.

 

 

I'm fairly sure they're not. Mesh is full of **** more often than he isn't.

[Meshugger]

 

 

I did not realize that all civilizations are based on a founding religion.

 

 

I'm fairly sure they're not. Mesh is full of **** more often than he isn't.

 

 

Please point where on the doll my argument might have hurt you.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

I did not realize that all civilizations are based on a founding religion.

 

 

I'm fairly sure they're not. Mesh is full of **** more often than he isn't.

 

 

Can you name a civilization that was built without a religious base?  

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Please point where on the doll my argument might have hurt you.

 

 

 

Your ignorance does not offend me.

 

 

 

 

 

I did not realize that all civilizations are based on a founding religion.

 

 

I'm fairly sure they're not. Mesh is full of **** more often than he isn't.

 

 

Can you name a civilization that was built without a religious base?  

 

 

 

Define "civilization" and "religion", I guess?

[ShadySands]

 

Though I do catch his meaning as there are "religions" without supreme being type figures and maybe be better categorized as philosophies

[Meshugger]

 

Please point where on the doll my argument might have hurt you.

 

 

Your ignorance does not offend me.

 

lol

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure if I'm willing to bite into a big pedantic discussion on a lazy Sunday...but then again, I'm in no mood to grade papers.  

 

I typically use the word 'civilization' when referring to any group that has established an agricultural system that allows them to settle in one place.  While nomadic or tribal groups can possess many characteristics of a civilization, the lack of a permanent settlement tends to stifle progress.  It's not just the ability to grow crops, either, it is the ability to manipulate the natural environment.

 

Religion can be a trickier one to define.  But I believe Mesh was being fairly general in his use of the word, meaning any system of faith or worship would qualify.  I don't recall any agnostic civilizations before the modern age.     

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Religion can be a trickier one to define.  But I believe Mesh was being fairly general in his use of the word, meaning any system of faith or worship would qualify.  I don't recall any agnostic civilizations before the modern age.     

 

 

I just think the agnostic-religious dichotomy is a bit of a red herring here. What you need is a common frame of reference, and a certain level of anthropocentrism is pretty much unavoidable because in the absence of information to the contrary, it feels intuitive.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Religion can be a trickier one to define.  But I believe Mesh was being fairly general in his use of the word, meaning any system of faith or worship would qualify.  I don't recall any agnostic civilizations before the modern age.     

 

 

I just think the agnostic-religious dichotomy is a bit of a red herring here. What you need is a common frame of reference, and a certain level of anthropocentrism is pretty much unavoidable because in the absence of information to the contrary, it feels intuitive.

 

 

Are you a philosophy major, by chance? 

[Hiro Protagonist]

Define "civilization" and "religion", I guess?

 

How can you disagree that there hasn't ever been any great civilization without a founding religion, if you don't even have a definition yourself of what "civilization" and "religion" is?