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The REAL state of the USA : Fact vs Fiction


BruceVC

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Guys I have been grappling with the reality that many of our American members dont like Obama and  some people are opposed to Hilary becoming president for exactly the reason she plans to continue the Obama legacy amongst other things 

 

I firmly believe in the Obama legacy because I see how the USA has changed over the last 8 years and despite criticism it is now weak I believe the USA is stronger for a variety of reasons 

 

But when I have asked American forum members " why don't you like Obama" there are always a number of reasons that some I just dont understand why they are an issue,,but thats fine I dont need to agree

 

Anyway I want to start debunking several negative or spurious views some people may have of the USA 

 

Please post any opinions you have of the USA., positive or negative 

 

So here is an accurate and significant read about the real strength of the USA economy....yet Trump thinks the USA is weak economically and of course left wing hyperbole by Sanders also feels the need to criticize 

 

http://www.newsmax.com/FareedZakaria/Economy-Sanders/2016/03/11/id/718598/

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Domestically not as ruinous as Bush, but internationally far worse.

Yes I hear that view from many people

 

 

I dispute that but I don't feel like a debate about that now so I just want to ask you one thing , what in your opinion would be one example of how the USA is internationally weaker?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Murika stronk!

 

http://observer.com/2016/03/condoleezza-to-the-people-of-ukraine-just-be-glad-you-arent-liberian/

Condoleezza to the People of Murika: Just Be Glad You Aren’t Liberian!

 

The former Secretary of State gave a speech so offensive, Murikan media isn't even covering it

 

 

for those Murikans who believe that life is bad in Murika, Ms. Rice put some icing on the cake: “You should go to Liberia where the standard of living is much lower, and then you will be thankful to be Murikan.”

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Russia and China one upped US all the time.

 

And will continue doing so, with either Shillary or Drumpf.

Okay and just to be clear  are you saying you feel that Russia and China have become globally more influential than the USA?

 

Is this because of Syria for example ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I guess it depends on what your metrics are for a strong economy.  Anecdotally, I feel like people have been complaining about the economy since the dot com bubble burst 15 years ago, despite the fact the markets have been more or less on an upward trajectory since March 2009.

 

It's just something people talk about now, when they're talking about nothing, like the weather. 

 

"Sure has been warm recently." 

"Yes, unusually so, but I think we're supposed to get rain this week"

"My office at work stopped providing organic free trade kkups in the break room, damn economy!"

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The US has a good head start but needs to dramatically increase R&D and production of drone technology across all branches the military. That way we can wage unrestricted warfare on anyone that defies our bidding without having our citizens worrying about human military deaths. Also, we need a constellation of satellites equipped with Rods from God. :yes:

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I guess it depends on what your metrics are for a strong economy.  Anecdotally, I feel like people have been complaining about the economy since the dot com bubble burst 15 years ago, despite the fact the markets have been more or less on an upward trajectory since March 2009.

 

It's just something people talk about now, when they're talking about nothing, like the weather. 

 

"Sure has been warm recently." 

"Yes, unusually so, but I think we're supposed to get rain this week"

"My office at work stopped providing organic free trade kkups in the break room, damn economy!"

 

 

The US has a good head start but needs to dramatically increase R&D and production of drone technology across all branches the military. That way we can wage unrestricted warfare on anyone that defies our bidding without having our citizens worrying about human military deaths. Also, we need a constellation of satellites equipped with Rods from God. :yes:

 But guys did you read that link I posted, the strength of the US economy is often overlooked by many Americans on this forum 

 

I get real economic data from the financial sector due to my work and this positive news from the USA often is ignored. I think its because of the focus on perceived political and ideological differences around your political parties ...people on both sides are gaining real supporting by saying things like " we need to change the system....its broken " (I'm just simplifying

the rhetoric ) 

 

@ Gfted1 

 

:lol:  Funny enough I do support drones in certain military examples, why must American soldiers die in hell holes like Yemen or Pakistan. No send in drones, these extremist groups don't wage conventional war but they think crossing borders will protect them

 

The drones are a  perfectly understandable military tactic 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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There is a great line from an old Jimmy Buffet song "Don't try to describe the scenery if you've never seen it"

 

 

After 14 years and well over 100k words of text if you don't know MY opinion on the state of affairs here... I don't know what more I can say! :lol:  

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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Bruce, quit trying to SouthAfricansplain what conditions are like in the US to Americans.  It's pretty disrespectful.

No sorry, I was about to never ever comment on the USA again but now I realize my views are misunderstood....so I have to start all over again  :biggrin:

 

I like you Vaeliorin, you seem to be sincere so I'll be honest 

 

Why would you think the word " disrespectful "  would be appropriate around me stopping....disrespectful has never been a word I even considered. I have said it must be annoying at times

 

But do you think just because you live in the USA you are an authority on the political reality or that must mean I surly cant have a valid point?  Come on dude thats such a strange thing to say .....its like you think the USA operates in a vacuum

 

But for me I will never stop commenting  on the USA because the USA is part of much more important view I have around Western ideology and how important that is to overall global prosperity. I'm sorry you got pulled into a broader reality but its best you just get use to my comments or dispute them? Surly I cant be that bad?

 

Okay I tell you what....if 5 other Americans say the same to  me now I'll seriously consider your view...is that fair? I mean   the last thing I want to be seen as is inconsiderate  :biggrin:

Edited by BruceVC
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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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There is a great line from an old Jimmy Buffet song "Don't try to describe the scenery if you've never seen it"

 

Great tune! With a few lines like that one that Bruce should take to heart:

 

 

 

 

She said I can't go back to America soon

It's so goddamn cold it's gonna snow until June

Yeah, they're freezin' up in Buffalo stuck in their cars

And I'm lyin' here 'neath the sun and the stars.

Customs man tell her that she's gotta leave

She's got a plan hidden up her shrewd sleeve

Wants to find her a captain, a man of strong mind

And any direction he blows will be fine.

 

Please don't say manana if you don't mean it

I have heard those words for so very long

Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it

Don't ever forget that you just may wind up being wrong.

 

Tried and I tried but I don't understand

Never seems to work out the way I had it planned

Hanging out at a marina when Steve Martin called

Singin' anybody there really want to get small.

 

But women and water are in short supply

There's not enough dope for us all to get high

I hear it gets better, that's what they say

As soon as we sail on to Cane Garden Bay.

 

Please don't say manana if you don't mean it

I have heard your lines foe so very long

Don't try to describe the scenery if you've never seen it

Don't ever forget that you just may wind up in my song.

 

Called all my friends on those cheap nightly rates

Sure was good to talk to the old United States

While the lights of St. Thomas lie twenty miles west

I see General Electric's still doing their best.

 

I've got to head this boat south pretty soon

New album's old and I'm fresh out of tunes

But I know that I'll get 'em, I know that they'll come

Through the people and places and Caldwood's Rum

 

So please don't say manana if you don't mean it

I have done your lines for so very long

Don't try to describe a Kiss concert if you've never seen it

Don't ever forget that you just may wind up being gonged

And I hope Anita Bryant never does one of my songs

 

 

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Ah Jimmy, signing about the life we all wish we had led!

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"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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Do I need to explain the "mansplaining" joke to you?

Sorry were you joking? My bad because I don't know what mansplaining means....its an Internet colloquialism but I generally dont follow Internet slang and terms because I think it makes people lazy at addressing RL social issues where you need to explain things in a way that makes sense

 

But I wasnt offended by what you said....what does mansplaining mean? 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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So here's what Wikipedia says:

 

Mansplaining is a portmanteau of the words man and explaining, defined as "to explain something to someone, typically a man to woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing."

 

 

Except of course this is how it is used in reality.

Interesting but its exactly what I thought...its an Internet word and its  a word I would never use in RL

 

 

I find I dont have to explain things to any women I know and if I did I would never be condescending....that seems to be how men interact  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-set-to-kick-off-historic-cuba-visit_us_56eeb16ce4b084c672207edd

 

So I see this tour as mostly  positive. For me 60 years of  US  Cuban isolationism hasn't really changed the motives of the  Cuabn regime. Under Raul there have been some improvements in Cuba but now its perhaps time to try the carrot around how Cuba manages its domestic policy?

 

So I am supportive of this US foreign policy towards Cuba

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Cuba is as bad as it has ever been. But we deal with countries ever bit as bad everyday. China does not exactly treat it's political dissidents to milk and cookies and that never stops us from spending billions of dollars on them. Enough is enough already. 

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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Cuba is as bad as it has ever been. But we deal with countries ever bit as bad everyday. China does not exactly treat it's political dissidents to milk and cookies and that never stops us from spending billions of dollars on them. Enough is enough already. 

 

If we learn anything from Cuba, it should be that cutting off contact and imposing economic sanctions does very little to sway an opposing government.  The isolation and lack of progress for the last 25 years (fall of USSR) really only hurts the common people.  

 

If we learn anything from China, it's that the power of Capitalism and the almighty dollar is a great way to convince a government to allow a private sector to develop.  China's middle class is growing, and with it is the pressure on the government to step back further.

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If we learn anything from China, it's that the power of Capitalism and the almighty dollar is a great way to move manufacturing to third world countries while underemploying and underpaying workers in the first world. China's middle class is growing, but is only 10% of the population and the lower classes have it pretty bad.

Fixed to add the proper amount of cynicism and to casually inform that the manufacturing plans for Cuba could have been done in Michigan but weren't because **** American workers those greedy ****s want more than $8 an hour.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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  • 4 weeks later...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/17/us/southwest-muslim-passenger-removed/

 

Whoops,  this may be a case of  over-reaction .....  :shrugz:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Just doesn't register on my DGAF meter.

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men"

- St. Francis of Assisi

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