US Elections 2016

[BruceVC]

Not knowing the context of the discussion, but why would it be annoying? If you can't have debate on class and society in institutions of higher learning, where can you?

Did you watch the video, I absolutely  support meaningful debates around privilege and social status

 

But to say one racial group doesnt have a right to live ....its just stupid and pointless and lacks any intellectual relevance to a real debate?  

[HoonDing]

"But to say one racial group doesnt have a right to live ....its just stupid and pointless and lacks any intellectual relevance to a real debate?"

 

I agree, it should be expanded to haplogroup.

[BruceVC]

"But to say one racial group doesnt have a right to live ....its just stupid and pointless and lacks any intellectual relevance to a real debate?"

 

I agree, it should be expanded to haplogroup.

I didnt know what that word meant so I looked it up ....not sure what you mean though?

[Meshugger]

 

 

Guys this is going to really annoy you....its basically an ignorant attack on white people but it makes no sense 

 

And this is the level of intelligence of Harvard students ?

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Meshugger

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Guys this is going to really annoy you....its basically an ignorant attack on white people but it makes no sense 

 

And this is the level of intelligence of Harvard students ?

 

Having been to Harvard, and even dated one of it's students for a number of years, I can tell you that it's pure myth that one needs to be intelligent to be there. In fact, my experience is that school attracts some of the most thoroughly brainwashed (yet good regurgitators) folks in the nation.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Guys this is going to really annoy you....its basically an ignorant attack on white people but it makes no sense 

 

And this is the level of intelligence of Harvard students ?

 

Having been to Harvard, and even dated one of it's students for a number of years, I can tell you that it's pure myth that one needs to be intelligent to be there. In fact, my experience is that school attracts some of the most thoroughly brainwashed (yet good regurgitators) folks in the nation.

 

But Vals let me be honest and I dont mean to make sweeping generalizations about all American students 

 

 

In South Africa 80 % of the country due to Apartheid didn't receive decent education and yet every time I listen to people on radio stations who come from this background they put real effort into debates and asking things. I have learnt a lot from many black South Africans about the reality of Apartheid ....anyway I have never ever heard this type of perspective from a black South African and trust me I can understand resentment towards white people...yet I hear this at Harvard? I'm sorry its such a pointless thing to say...how do you even respond to that ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

[BruceVC]

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

 

 

You funny alum, I dont think you passive aggressive all the time ..I just think you sometimes cant keep quiet when you are faced with certain views and sentiments in posts 

 

But you not unreasonable, we have  had debates and  they seemed normal to me ?

[Meshugger]

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

 

 

Free speech, you use it, you defend it, end of story. You should not pick winners, like they seem to do at Harvard.

 

...and you didn't even watch video. Not once does he preach for genocide.

 

//edit2, bah i should've just posted this video instead and left it at that:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icqPHsNumuU

Edited March 23, 2016 by Meshugger

[Valsuelm]

 

KP, any comments?

There very well may be some truth to this.

 

Voter fraud is nothing new. Certain places like Chicago are notorious for it, and there's a number of good documentaries out there on it in regards to national elections (none that I can link on youtube though). Some focus on the 2000 election in Florida, some focus on 2004 in Ohio, and some just talk about it in general. 'Hacking Democracy' is probably the best one overall in my opinion. I highly recommend everyone find it and watch it if you haven't already.

 

On top of voter fraud there is the shady and very undemocratic at times primary process of both parties. The Dem's system currently seems more blatantly corrupt, but the Republican's certainly is as well. Just ask Ron Paul supporters from the last election, or do a little research. You'll find that party nominations have been stolen in the past (most recently and fairly obviously by Eisenhower), it's nothing new.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Valsuelm

[BruceVC]

 

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

 

 

Free speech, you use it, you defend it, end of story. You should not pick winners, like they seem to do at Harvard.

 

...and you didn't even watch video. Not once does he preach for genocide.

 

//edit2, bah i should've just posted this video instead and left it at that:

 

 

 

Meshugger its rude to expect people to watch a 1 hour video 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

 

 

...and you didn't even watch video. Not once does he preach for genocide.

 

 

Neither did I claim he did?

[Meshugger]

 

 

KP, any comments?

There very well may be some truth to this.

 

Voter fraud is nothing new. Certain places like Chicago are notorious for it, and there's a number of good documentaries out there on it in regards to national elections (none that I can link on youtube though). Some focus on the 2000 election in Florida, some focus on 2004 in Ohio, and some just talk about it in general. 'Hacking Democracy' is probably the best one overall in my opinion. I highly recommend everyone find it and watch it if you haven't already.

 

On top of voter fraud there is the shady and very undemocratic at times primary process of both parties. The Dem's system currently seems more blatantly corrupt, but the Republican's certainly is as well. Just ask Ron Paul supporters from the last election, or do a little research. You'll find that party nominations have been stolen in the past (most recently and fairly obviously by Eisenhower), it's nothing new.

 

 

The reason i asked was because there has been hearings in locally about it before:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aKOhbbK9E

 

//edit: More about the vulnurabilities in the voting system

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybCaT52Fa6w

Edited March 23, 2016 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

The issue is not about some guys expressing the opinion of wishing to murder a whole group of people. The issue is that, thanks to identity politics, such things are ok to be debated on certain groups and not on others; which in turn will sow the seeds to war.

 

For example, when are these opinions going to be invited and debated freely and given a voice in mainstream media?

 

 

Free speech or death, i say.

 

 

Vintage Mesh: "The problem with speech inciting genocide and racial hatred is that we don't have enough of it in the mainstream media! The solution is simple: we should give Nazis a voice! They've been oppressed for too long, I say!"

 

 

...and you didn't even watch video. Not once does he preach for genocide.

 

 

Neither did I claim he did?

 

 

I was just being anal about it, no worries.

[Hurlshort]

Playing more of a devil's advocate here, but why is it so hard to understand that when a minority voices ideas like 'kill whitey' it is less eyebrow raising because there isn't a lengthy history where minorities persecuted and killed white people?  

 

I mean, white people had a few centuries of being on top, when I hear white power I just think "you had your time, get over it."

[Meshugger]

There was only one polling station for 21000 people in Arizona

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/22/live-arizona-primary-coverage-presidential-preference-election/82096726/

 

lol

[BruceVC]

Playing more of a devil's advocate here, but why is it so hard to understand that when a minority voices ideas like 'kill whitey' it is less eyebrow raising because there isn't a lengthy history where minorities persecuted and killed white people?  

 

I mean, white people had a few centuries of being on top, when I hear white power I just think "you had your time, get over it."

No it is a valid point, of course people will say you are now promoting double standards but I get what you mean

 

However my issue is you can say you don't like white people, you can resent white people, in fact you can have any opinion of white people you want but to suggest a whole race has no  life value is egregious 

 

As I said you have to at least respect things have  a right to exist? Its not that I was offended it just sets a terrible precedent for the debate...you cant continue from that,, well I would refuse to 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Guys this is going to really annoy you....its basically an ignorant attack on white people but it makes no sense 

 

 

It makes sense as an elaborate piece of performance art intended to underline the fact that nobody should have to justify why their lives matter specifically (ie. why "All Lives Matter" as a reaction to "Black Lives Matter" is absolutely wrong-headed and tone-deaf).

 

Is it an elaborate piece of performance art intended to yadda yadda? I'm not convinced. But it would make sense.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Playing more of a devil's advocate here, but why is it so hard to understand that when a minority voices ideas like 'kill whitey' it is less eyebrow raising because there isn't a lengthy history where minorities persecuted and killed white people?  

 

I mean, white people had a few centuries of being on top, when I hear white power I just think "you had your time, get over it."

I can be an advocate for Old Nick as well. If they're claiming that whites and non-whites are natural enemies, wouldn't the rational response from a white person who believed them be to view them as enemies and try to either drive them from white territories or kill them? Why should self-interested whites kill themselves rather than eliminate natural enemies?

 

Aside from distracting from class issues, the problem with identity politics is the implications they have of continuing racism or sexism or whatever for the sake of self-interest of the privileged when taken to their logical conclusions. While yelling "kill whitey" or "kill all men" may be therapeutic to some, it's only going to further entrench opposition compared to advocating a system where race or gender don't provide privileges or disadvantages.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

If they're claiming that whites and non-whites are natural enemies, wouldn't the rational response from a white person who believed them be to view them as enemies and try to either drive them from white territories or kill them? Why should self-interested whites kill themselves rather than eliminate natural enemies?

 

 

If obvious hyperbole wasn't obvious, the hypothetical self-interested white might even have a point.

 

 

 

While yelling "kill whitey" or "kill all men" may be therapeutic to some, it's only going to further entrench opposition 

 

 

https://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI?t=120

[Hurlshort]

I think it's also important to point out that none of this stuff is new.  I keep hearing the term identity politics as if it is some new plague.  It is not.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

If they're claiming that whites and non-whites are natural enemies, wouldn't the rational response from a white person who believed them be to view them as enemies and try to either drive them from white territories or kill them? Why should self-interested whites kill themselves rather than eliminate natural enemies?

 

 

If obvious hyperbole wasn't obvious, the hypothetical self-interested white might even have a point.

 

Well there is the Nation of Islam that unironically advocates for such things, so the hypothetical self-interested white turning to white nationalism would be the rational response if such things were true.

 

Of course they aren't and the truth of material conditions results in the hypothetical self-interested white being a socialist.

 

I think it's also important to point out that none of this stuff is new.  I keep hearing the term identity politics as if it is some new plague.  It is not.

A thing doesn't have to be new to be bad. Te southern strategy was identity politics and has resulted in lower standards of living for everyone in those areas.

Edited March 23, 2016 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Guys this is going to really annoy you....its basically an ignorant attack on white people but it makes no sense 

 

 

It makes sense as an elaborate piece of performance art intended to underline the fact that nobody should have to justify why their lives matter specifically (ie. why "All Lives Matter" as a reaction to "Black Lives Matter" is absolutely wrong-headed and tone-deaf).

 

Is it an elaborate piece of performance art intended to yadda yadda? I'm not convinced. But it would make sense.

 

Okay, good point 

 

It may be some kind of performance art ...but would the white people be part of it ? You may be right ...its better than them thinking that kind of invective  is appropriate 

 

But I think it is real?

[BruceVC]

I think it's also important to point out that none of this stuff is new.  I keep hearing the term identity politics as if it is some new plague.  It is not.

Are you saying its normal in the US for people in a debate to have a view like that?

 

I find that hard to believe that would be accepted ?

[Drowsy Emperor]

How's this related to the election