Lightly Armoured Monk Tank Viable?

[Reent]

"doesnt show"... thats such a big problem with Pillars... i wanna solo monk, is turning wheel compatible with torments reach? Who knows? You never know with Pillars, Chanters get 1handed no shield acc bonus to chants, however they dont get the survival resting bonus to acc for chants... dragon chants doesnt get the scion of flame bonus damage, the monk turning wheel gets it...

sometimes it looks like turning wheel and torments reach is uncompatible, sometimes it looks like it stacks... example:

 

monk (torments reach) crits Villager for 31 Crush damage.

 

hover over it... acc: 59 - Def: 1. roll 45+58=103 (crit). 30,5 - DR: 0,0 = 30.5 Crush+15,3 Crush+9,2 Burn...

 

Jeah, right - so i deal 31 crush damage... however it deals 55 damage...? Nice one, a different torments reach doesnt show burn damage, despite wounds... and a third one shows it again :D

[gkathellar]

Anecdotally, I think light armor on a tank monk is kind of a bad idea at low levels, and a perfectly reasonable choice at high ones where it has reasonable DR and you have lots more Endurance. Back in 1.x, I ran a tanky monk in heavy armor, but switched to that red suit of padded leather from the Adra Dragon's hoard before the end of the game. It worked fine, although obviously that armor was superb and so my DR was still pretty decent, and it was in an earlier version of the game - Durgan-forged gear, among other things, kinda incentivizes heavier armor.

[Braven]

"doesnt show"... thats such a big problem with Pillars... i wanna solo monk, is turning wheel compatible with torments reach? Who knows? You never know with Pillars, Chanters get 1handed no shield acc bonus to chants, however they dont get the survival resting bonus to acc for chants... dragon chants doesnt get the scion of flame bonus damage, the monk turning wheel gets it...

sometimes it looks like turning wheel and torments reach is uncompatible, sometimes it looks like it stacks... example:

 

monk (torments reach) crits Villager for 31 Crush damage.

 

hover over it... acc: 59 - Def: 1. roll 45+58=103 (crit). 30,5 - DR: 0,0 = 30.5 Crush+15,3 Crush+9,2 Burn...

 

Jeah, right - so i deal 31 crush damage... however it deals 55 damage...? Nice one, a different torments reach doesnt show burn damage, despite wounds... and a third one shows it again :D

 

Yeah, I noticed a lot of fuzzy math too with torments reach and turning wheel, which is partly why I abandoned my monk.  Maybe it has gotten a little better since then. The shod in faith boots are also still a little buggy, or at least the UI is.  I get some strange healing numbers sometimes in the log.  Bugs of Eternity is a better name for the game, but I still love it anyways.  Also, I bet there are lots of games with bad math; they just don't show you enough information about how it works so that you know there is a bug.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Ymarsakar]

I usually cast an ability with a flat duration, equal to 40s, that way I can use the in game clock to count certain things like attacks.

[PugPug]

Also, keep in mind that high might is not always required. High might is best if you rely on self healing and using your fists (they have high base damage, which is great paired with Might) and spamming torments reach.

 

How do monks self-heal?

[DreamWayfarer]

 

 

Also, keep in mind that high might is not always required. High might is best if you rely on self healing and using your fists (they have high base damage, which is great paired with Might) and spamming torments reach.

How do monks self-heal?

Items? And maybe veteran's recovery. Edited March 2, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[PugPug]

 

 

Also, keep in mind that high might is not always required. High might is best if you rely on self healing and using your fists (they have high base damage, which is great paired with Might) and spamming torments reach.

How do monks self-heal?

Items? And maybe veteran's recovery.

 

 

Oh, and moon godlike. I just thought there was a monk ability I was unaware of.

[cavemandiary]

Ever since the introduction of Iron Wheel, I've substituted my medium armors with light armors on the monk with no negative repercussions. If you still feel squishy though, you'll most likely have a cipher in your party with Pain Block.

One of the best (and earliest superb) armors is Wayfarers Hide  which can be acquired early in TWM1.

Sure, Vengiata Rugia is better, but requires you to defeat one of the hardest enemies in the game and looks ridiculous.

[JerekKruger]

Bah, I am still suffering from analysis paralysis. Can't decide whether to go damage or controller and whether to go primarily fists or use a weapon. I really need to learn that this stuff doesn't matter as much as I think it does :D

 

In other news, I did a quick test a determined that Intellect does increase the duration of wounds. This was probably already known but I couldn't find it written anywhere. At Intellect 10 it seems that they last about 30s and at Intellect 18 about 42s. This was done with a stop watch so it's probably not that accurate, but I don't think I made a mistake of 12s. Not sure if that makes Intellect more important for Turning/Iron Wheel Monks?

[MountainTiger]

42s is the correct duration for a base 30s ability at 18 INT (30 * 1.4 = 42), so it sounds like you nailed the durations.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about average INT for those abilities: 30s is pretty long, and in tough fights, you're going to get hit plenty to replace lost wounds.

[Braven]

Interesting. I thought it used to be lower. I personally want to try out a high INT monk like that. And get all the powers that can stun and prone.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Braven

[JerekKruger]

I've been giving it some more thought, and I wonder if something like the following could work.

 

Hearth Orlan

 

Mig 10

Con 14

Dex 10

Per 18

Int 16

Res 10

 

Wielding Llawran's Stick with appropriate enchantments and Durgan refinement (Llawran's Stick gives +20% attack speed). I realise Blade of the Endless Paths would probably be a better choice, but a staff just seems to fit a monk well. Obviously he'll have to have a backup weapon for crush resistant/immune enemies.

 

I plan to make lots of use of Enervating Blows (high perception gives high crit chance, as does Hearth Orlan), Force of Anguish (high intellect and high crit chance mean long duration), Resonant Touch (high intellect means larger AoE, as far as I could tell the damage is unaffected by might). I will also probably take Interrupting Blows which, with a high perception and a fast attack speed should mean a fairly good rate of interruption.

 

So, any thoughts? Is Constitution 14 too low for a low armoured monk? Could any of Might, Dexterity or Resolve be reasonably dropped to 8 without hurting his ability to do his job?

 

Bear in mind this is only for a Hard playthrough and some choices are made for RPy reasons.

[KDubya]

I've been giving it some more thought, and I wonder if something like the following could work.

 

Hearth Orlan

 

Mig 10

Con 14

Dex 10

Per 18

Int 16

Res 10

 

Wielding Llawran's Stick with appropriate enchantments and Durgan refinement (Llawran's Stick gives +20% attack speed). I realise Blade of the Endless Paths would probably be a better choice, but a staff just seems to fit a monk well. Obviously he'll have to have a backup weapon for crush resistant/immune enemies.

 

I plan to make lots of use of Enervating Blows (high perception gives high crit chance, as does Hearth Orlan), Force of Anguish (high intellect and high crit chance mean long duration), Resonant Touch (high intellect means larger AoE, as far as I could tell the damage is unaffected by might). I will also probably take Interrupting Blows which, with a high perception and a fast attack speed should mean a fairly good rate of interruption.

 

So, any thoughts? Is Constitution 14 too low for a low armoured monk? Could any of Might, Dexterity or Resolve be reasonably dropped to 8 without hurting his ability to do his job?

 

Bear in mind this is only for a Hard playthrough and some choices are made for RPy reasons.

 

You can easily get by with 14 base Constitution. There are sacrifices that you can make to get +1 con and +5% health, +2 from food is easy as is +2 or 3 from an item. That'd get you to 19 or 20. If you use Outlander's Frenzy you get another +3 con.

 

Since the new change to wound duration, I think it was like base ten seconds before and now it seems to be 30 seconds, I've been thinking of dropping a few points from Resolve and place them in Intellect. I need to experiment and see how the lower concentration ends up as far as getting interrupted too much.

 

I definitely would not drop Might, it is one of the few ways to add damage for a Monk.

[Crucis]

Some thoughts on lightly armored monks and the role of chanters as well.

 

 

Lightly armored monks:

 

One item that hasn't been mentioned above that could be very useful is the Blunting Belt.  It's an easy (and very early in the game) way to pick up +5 DR slashing, +5 DR piercing without the benefit of any actual armor.

 

Secondly, IMO, this entire question points out what I feel is a significant failing in PoE.  I'm of the opinion that there should be a converse relationship between the weight of armor and its DR and its affect on the wearer's DEFL.  Put another way, I think that heavier armors (i.e. the higher the DR's, not counting enchantments) should reduce the wearer's DEFL rating.  Thus, heavily armored characters would be placing more of a premium on resisting damage taken than on avoiding being hit in the first place, whereas lightly armored characters would be placing more of a premium on hit avoidance than on damage resistance.  It seems to me that the advantage to this relationship would be that it would give people a reason for some characters to prefer lighter armors (or even medium armors) over heavy armors.  They could role play the characters that they see as wanting to dodging incoming blows rather than resisting them.  And it would make the lightly armored monk or rogue, or even barbarian much more viable.

 

Third.  When it comes to monks and armor, yes you need to generate wounds.  But what a good monk player needs to do is find the right balance of having just enough DR to generate the wounds you need without taking so much damage that your monk becomes too squishy.

 

Fourth.  For whatever (little) it's worth, I think that monks in PoE (and in D&D) are really just martial artists, whether it's explicitly said or not.  IMO, real world "monks" who put on heavy armor and fight like soldiers are really more fighters or perhaps clerics (PoE priests) than they are monks in the way game presents them.

 

 

 

Regarding the role of Chanters:

 

Above, Braven said: "the chanters role is just to survive as long as possible since their powers are benefit from longer combat durations and the best ones don't use accuracy at all (the creature summoning spells)."

 

I completely disagree with this.  A chanter who is just standing around doing nothing else but chanting away and occasionally casting an invocation is about as boring as I can imagine.  There's absolutely no reason why a really good chanter can't be a great 2nd line off-tank.  That's how I'm playing Kana in my current party, and he's excellent in the role.  I have him using Adventurer weapons, mostly warbow and flail, and occasionally an Estoc.  And he can hang back and provide respectable ranged support, or fight in melee when needed. I prefer having him go shield and weapon so that I can pump up his DEFL since I prefer not putting him in heavy plate armor if I can avoid it.  Admittedly he's not as durable as a high DR plate wearing warrior like Eder or Pallegina, but most of the time, he's durable enough for his role.  And he's a heck of a lot more interesting to play than a singing potted plant of a chanter.

[Boeroer]

Vengiata Rugia [...] looks ridiculous.

That is the main problem. One's legs look really spindly with that armor. Why is that? To make it really hilarious, put it on an orlan and then also put on the Maegfolc Skull. Then use Badgradr's Barricade and mix it with Nightshroud. Maybe that gives you a sickening aura like Threatening Presence? Let's call it "Instant Eye Cancer".

Edited March 6, 2016 by Boeroer