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[WM2] Is it justified to rise the tide in the abbey?

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I've recently got to the Rising Tide part of the WM2's quest. A brief spoiler: you ultimately can be faced with the choice of either rising the waters of Ondra, drowning her previous incarnation of abbots in the crypts below, or freeing them, alienating the rest of the abbey and prompting rather a large number of difficult fights. 

 

I'm intrigued by this decision -- my instinct is to be nice, and not kill everyone below. Ultimately, this leads to equal bloodshed: you either end up with every member of the temple hostile, and a rather unpleasant fight with Koto that you can't easily prepare for, or -- if you follow through with the ritual -- he leads you onto the roof, and then begs for you to fight him. This is an easier battle. 

 

After speaking to the god, I actually found that I had -- oddly -- more respect for her ways. Given that most of the people in the halls of silence were insane and murderous, I feel that the actions of drowning them were not perhaps as evil as they might otherwise be. 

 

Are there any (many?) long term consequences to this choice? Which path do you think is "better" in the sense of being more ethically justified? What happens in the endgame? 

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I let 'em go in my game, under the assumption that they might be able to make a few new memories and get a little dignity before freezing to death. Haven't paid a visit to Sun in Shadow to see the impact on the epilogue slides, though.

 

Ultimately, though, it's just one of those gray area choices, where you could justify either way.


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I stream every Friday at 9pm EST: http://www.twitch.tv/ladaarehn  Currently streaming: KOTOR 2.

 

Pillars of Eternity homebrew tabletop thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84662-pillars-of-eternity-homebrew-wip/

 

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I let them go during my playthrough, not sure about the morality of it though. They were basically a bunch of former zealots who when completely lucid agreed to have their memories taken from them bit by bit until it drives them to insanity, the only problem is they can't remember my they agreed to do it to begin with. Kind of a tortured existence, it may have been kinder to let them drown like they expected to to begin with.

 

There was no mention of them in the ending slides.

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There's like one difficult fight and two trash mobs between where you are and the final quest objective

 

Nothing "difficult" about it.  

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I let them go during my playthrough, not sure about the morality of it though. They were basically a bunch of former zealots who when completely lucid agreed to have their memories taken from them bit by bit until it drives them to insanity, the only problem is they can't remember my they agreed to do it to begin with. Kind of a tortured existence, it may have been kinder to let them drown like they expected to to begin with.

 

There was no mention of them in the ending slides.

That's exactly the question I was slightly torn by. I'm surprised that such an apparently big decision doesn't feature after sun-in-shadow; it seems like the sort of thing that could make or break a church (or at least lead to reform...). 

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I think that Ondra did not keep up her part of the bargain here. The cultists were promised peace and to forget their misery. Instead their anguish only intensified and their memories still torment them. So it's completely fair for them to change their mind and seek freedom. 

 

Killing innocent High Tide cultists seems to be over the top, however. And besides, the mad Low Tide cultists will likely not survive their freedom (they are high in the mountains, it's cold, the journey to nearest village will take some time, most are too confused to get there, they may attack people and get killed, etc.).

 

Just rising the tide just rubs me the wrong way, though.

 

It's really the kind of decision that is easier to answer from the perspective of the character you roleplay than from "let's choose the best option" perspective. 

 

My Watcher values freedom and knowledge, so she released the Low Tide. They should have the chance to live and die on their own terms and not drown after years of suffering.

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I drowned them. Skyward Kick is the most annoying move ever; they deserved it.

 

...

 

In more serious note anyway, I felt their minds were too far gone to ever return to normal, and that releasing them would do more harm than good. Plus they're not innocent either, the former high abbot after all would've drowned the previous ones and so forth. Also I was playing a Skaenite... so killing several people by drowning so I can later on seize authority is par for the course.

 

I doubt freeing them would topple the Ondrite's religious hierarchy. Forgetting is a central part of their religion after all. Who's to say that forgetting that major temple existed once all its priests have died isn't true to Ondra's ways?

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I freed them. I considered mercy-killing them at first, but perpetuating Ondra's idiotic cycle of service into sacrifice seemed like a terrible option. I also really wanted to stick it to the abbot, considering he sent an agent to disrupt the peace negotiations between Stalwart and the Iron Flail and told her to kill herself if discovered. He was basically Thaos Lite.

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I'm stuck in the Abbey: I killed the Abbot and his guards, went down to the Silence and can't rearrange the panels. Help!

Was i not supposed to kill the Abbot? The box says passed the Recitation--is there a peaceful way?

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I'm stuck in the Abbey: I killed the Abbot and his guards, went down to the Silence and can't rearrange the panels. Help!

Was i not supposed to kill the Abbot? The box says passed the Recitation--is there a peaceful way?

 

Did you find the journal in the Abbot's chamber? The key is in some small container on his desk. I assume you either need to be told you can rearrange them or read about it to progress.

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I did not find a journal--I found a wave crested key on the floor. By Abbot's chamber did you mean the large room where i first met him? There's a room in back down a corridor which requires mechanics far beyond my abilities, even with a spell.

I opened the panels in the Silence, by accident; I think it goes barren, tide, fire, flourishing city (somewhat like the murals outside).

I reached in, It said I was following the Abbot's teaching although he never told me anything, water flooded below me.

I cannot reopen the panels. Now what? What do I need to pass the water curtain upstairs?

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I did not find a journal--I found a wave crested key on the floor. By Abbot's chamber did you mean the large room where i first met him? There's a room in back down a corridor which requires mechanics far beyond my abilities, even with a spell.

I opened the panels in the Silence, by accident; I think it goes barren, tide, fire, flourishing city (somewhat like the murals outside).

I reached in, It said I was following the Abbot's teaching although he never told me anything, water flooded below me.

I cannot reopen the panels. Now what? What do I need to pass the water curtain upstairs?

 

The Abbot's chamber is a small room behind the big room where you first met him. You have to go around back to reach it, and the door is locked. You say the mechanics is beyond your abilities, but I would have assumed it opened with the key you found.

 

Either way, assuming you haven't done it yet, you need to go through the water curtain now. When you flooded the place, you should have gotten a key item that lets you pass.

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OK, went back, have the journal, wave key, abbot key, cracked ornate key. Panels open with flames, tide, barren, flourishing cityBDAC

When I reach in, make the sign,  waters rise--and that's all, no Ondra's rod, I can't pass the waterfall upstairs.

Killing the Abbot is not the way I guess--you have to answer his questions?

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Could be remembering wrongly, but after you make the sign the only water that rises is the one that makes a bridge for you to cross, no? So have you tried walking over that water that just rose? It should be glowing a little IIRC. At that point, you continue on and eventually come to a lever/rod. It's this point that you can "rise the tide". 

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Yes, that's it! Not being divine I never thought of walking on the water. I let the low tiders live.

I got to the reliquary--quite a story.

 

It seems you don't need the keys or the journal, doesn't matter if the Abbot is alive or not. Answering the recitation is easy, but unnecessary.

 

Thanks very much for your advice. Now on to the battle--who has done hat?

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I let them go, my Cipher has a contempt for deities so he did this just to screw with Ondra.

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One thing that struck me as really wrong here was that the Abbey has that pool where Maneha is able to take a little dip and have her memories washed away.  So that left me asking, why do all those low tiders have to spend years of silent "torture" only to be followed by getting flushed down Ondra's toilet to have their memories washed away?  Why couldn't they use the same pool that Maneha used?  Honestly, that seemed like a major flaw in the entire Abbey storyline.

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I drowned them. They attack me on sight and are pretty powerful. I won't release a pack of mad dogs into the world just for the feeling I'm a kind, compassionate guy. Imagine how many innocents cound have suffered from this.

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I drown them each time because you have to remember that they are a cult of fanatics that don't think twice before killing people.

 

I kill also all the monks. Eradicate the cult.

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i played honest and benevolent chanter and chose to drown them. i just remember the ondra cultists agreed to everything. they also seemed too mentally unstabble to be released. they also must have seen everything coming and were familar with the process since they were high rank members of the cult.

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I played as an Eothean priest. Eothas is all about forgiveness and redemption, so I let them go. You don't have to kill the upper tide, just the leader and a few others.

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