US Elections 2016

[ShadySands]

 

If Bernie Sanders loses, his backers may not be there for Hillary Clinton in November

Shady will you vote for Clinton if Sanders loses?

 

Nope, not voting for Clinton and will likely vote 3rd party if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. Also, most of the Sanders supporters that I know will either stay home or write his name in as protest

 

Do you think all Republicans should support Trump if he somehow gets the nod?

 

 

I laughed at the part of the article 

 

" It’s condescending,” said Caitlin Conley, a 19-year-old student at Franklin Pierce University in Rindge. “It’s like she doesn’t think young people can have an opinion and know what they are talking about.”

 

Correct that's exactly what I think....and when I was 19 I wasn't assuming I knew more than people with 20-30 years experience  

You agree that Clinton is coming off as condescending or that young people can't have a valid dissenting opinion? 

 

Not to worry though since Clinton is still the likely winner no matter how much I wish it were not so

[BruceVC]

 

 

If Bernie Sanders loses, his backers may not be there for Hillary Clinton in November

Shady will you vote for Clinton if Sanders loses?

 

Nope, not voting for Clinton and will likely vote 3rd party if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. Also, most of the Sanders supporters that I know will either stay home or write his name in as protest

 

Do you think all Republicans should support Trump if he somehow gets the nod?

 

 

I laughed at the part of the article 

 

" It’s condescending,” said Caitlin Conley, a 19-year-old student at Franklin Pierce University in Rindge. “It’s like she doesn’t think young people can have an opinion and know what they are talking about.”

 

Correct that's exactly what I think....and when I was 19 I wasn't assuming I knew more than people with 20-30 years experience  

You agree that Clinton is coming off as condescending or that young people can't have a valid dissenting opinion? 

 

Not to worry though since Clinton is still the likely winner no matter how much I wish it were not so

 

You have asked  me some interesting questions....yes I assumed the majority of Republicans and Democrats would vote for the nominated candidate because for Republicans it seems the objective is to end the reign of Obama and anyone who follows his policies ...Clinton fits this profile and Sanders is similar around Federal government being able to intervene 

 

And I would think most Democrats would think if Trump or Cruz wins they both have plans to dismantle various social  programs that have become the hallmark of Obama. So I would expect Democrats to not want a Republican candidate to win. But I admit I don't know much about how Americans support other candidates so please correct me about this 

 

I knew my comment about 19 year old may not be popular...but I stand by it, I just need to explain some context. I see this in my own country where people seem to think 18, 19 and 20 year olds have the economic solutions to our problems. People mistake activism with insight and experience. Of course young people must vote and its great they care but end of the day when did we get to a point where there is expectation that someone who has never worked or had to  support themselves suddenly become an expert on policy? They are not suppose to know these things ...they students or just finished school

 

An example is that video that was posted by Qistina where students at Harvard? were asked about ISIS...now obviously they all bright but there actual responses were factually incorrect ...its not there fault but they made some really bad comparisons

 

I have no idea if Clinton is condescending towards young people and of course I would never say this to a room of young people but if I was concerned with what Americans want changed politically and economically  I would focus on people like you who work, pay taxes and want real  benefits to there lifestyles. Why would I focus on some 19 year old telling me to destroy Wall Street...I would listen to you if thats what you honestly felt but for me life and practical experience matters

 

There will be exceptions of course and I am not suggesting only employed people should have  a voice but likes of OWS I wont let define economic policy...do I sound condescending ?

Edited February 7, 2016 by BruceVC

[Barothmuk]

I agree with Bruce. We should abolish the vote. Clinton knows what's best for us.

[BruceVC]

I agree with Bruce. We should abolish the vote. Clinton knows what's best for us.

Baro don't you feel more fulfilled and at ease..,..listening to me takes the stress over having to make your own decisions, now you can focus on other things 

[Hurlshort]

I was a pretty decent fan of Chris Christie until I read all the crazy stuff he said about teachers.  But I might be willing to overlook that stuff if I think he can make some decent pushes against government spending.

[Elerond]

I must say that what ever happens please don't vote Cruz, because his wife is from Finnish immigrant family and I am not sure if i could endure four let alone eight years of our media telling how there is person of Finnish origin in White House. 

 

   

[BruceVC]

I must say that what ever happens please don't vote Cruz, because his wife is from Finnish immigrant family and I am not sure if i could endure four let alone eight years of our media telling how there is person of Finnish origin in White House. 

 

   

She is Finnish? Dude wft......how did she become so conservative, I thought you guys were liberal 

[Elerond]

 

I must say that what ever happens please don't vote Cruz, because his wife is from Finnish immigrant family and I am not sure if i could endure four let alone eight years of our media telling how there is person of Finnish origin in White House. 

 

   

She is Finnish? Dude wft......how did she become so conservative, I thought you guys were liberal 

 

 

She is daughter of economic refugees that left their country when it was in bad shape after war. Also she is american born, meaning that she is corrupted

[BruceVC]

 

 

I must say that what ever happens please don't vote Cruz, because his wife is from Finnish immigrant family and I am not sure if i could endure four let alone eight years of our media telling how there is person of Finnish origin in White House. 

 

   

She is Finnish? Dude wft......how did she become so conservative, I thought you guys were liberal 

 

 

She is daughter of economic refugees that left their country when it was in bad shape after war. Also she is american born, meaning that she is corrupted

 

Phew....okay you dodged that bullet, as far as I'm concerned you have no responsibility for what she thinks or says 

[Rostere]

I don't understand why the US media constantly talk about how Hillary Clinton has such an advantage with minority voters. Surely, the policies of Bernie Sanders must be better from the perspective of most black voters, for example?

 

A quick search reveals that the African-American vote might be swinging towards Sanders quickly.

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

Please consider a reality where she will become president...in fact I am confident she will be

I have. It involves me moving to Canada.

 

 

Hah, feel free to leave.  Odd that you would flee to a country with higher tax and universal health care to get away from a democrat, but what-evs.

 

It's not because she's a democrat.  Hell, out of the people who have a reasonable shot at winning, I'd probably vote for Bernie.  I decided a long time ago that if Hillary Clinton ever became president, I was leaving the country.  As far as I'm concerned she's amoral, power-hungry, willing to do or say whatever to gather more power, and has no concern for the well-being of anyone other than herself.  I don't trust her at all, and am fairly certain that given the chance, she'd gladly turn the US into a dictatorship with herself in power.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Please consider a reality where she will become president...in fact I am confident she will be

I have. It involves me moving to Canada.

 

 

Hah, feel free to leave.  Odd that you would flee to a country with higher tax and universal health care to get away from a democrat, but what-evs.

 

It's not because she's a democrat.  Hell, out of the people who have a reasonable shot at winning, I'd probably vote for Bernie.  I decided a long time ago that if Hillary Clinton ever became president, I was leaving the country.  As far as I'm concerned she's amoral, power-hungry, willing to do or say whatever to gather more power, and has no concern for the well-being of anyone other than herself.  I don't trust her at all, and am fairly certain that given the chance, she'd gladly turn the US into a dictatorship with herself in power.

 

Come on...are you being serious? Please trust me when I say you don't want to leave the USA just because of Hilary ....you will realize that the problems in other countries are much worse than your perception of Hilary Clinton 

[Guard Dog]

The US has weathered bad Presidents before. We have had sixteen years of bad leadership. It's when you string 3-4 of them together you get into real trouble. The reason the country survives is there are limits to what a president can do. Unfortunately Barack Obama has, without the power of any law, changed those limits. He has usurped power into the executive it does not have and through the complicity of the Democrats in congress and the cowardice of the Republicans in office he has been allowed to get away with it.  Hopefully the SCOTUS will take him to task this summer. The problem with having a powerful executive is it upsets the checks and balances built into our government. Congress is supposed to be a limit on the President, the President chooses the judiciary, the judiciary is a check on Congress. It's worked great for 232 years but Obama has been trying very hard to upset the apple cart.

 

Too many people take a "ends justify the means" argument. It's "my" guy doing it and I like the outcome so who cares how it gets done. That is extremely short sighted. Very soon that power that Obama has appropriated (the power to modify singed law at will after it has been passed, the power to selectively enforce to choose not to enforce the law, and the idea that the justice department is not subject to Congressional oversight being the worst of them) will be in the hands of someone else. It will almost certainly be a Republican despite Bruce's handwringing Hillary Clinton is a severely damaged candidate in the general election. All the things the anti-libertarian and big government left loved that Obama did they may have cause to rue it the next administration is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.

[BruceVC]

The US has weathered bad Presidents before. We have had sixteen years of bad leadership. It's when you string 3-4 of them together you get into real trouble. The reason the country survives is there are limits to what a president can do. Unfortunately Barack Obama has, without the power of any law, changed those limits. He has usurped power into the executive it does not have and through the complicity of the Democrats in congress and the cowardice of the Republicans in office he has been allowed to get away with it.  Hopefully the SCOTUS will take him to task this summer. The problem with having a powerful executive is it upsets the checks and balances built into our government. Congress is supposed to be a limit on the President, the President chooses the judiciary, the judiciary is a check on Congress. It's worked great for 232 years but Obama has been trying very hard to upset the apple cart.

 

Too many people take a "ends justify the means" argument. It's "my" guy doing it and I like the outcome so who cares how it gets done. That is extremely short sighted. Very soon that power that Obama has appropriated (the power to modify singed law at will after it has been passed, the power to selectively enforce to choose not to enforce the law, and the idea that the justice department is not subject to Congressional oversight being the worst of them) will be in the hands of someone else. It will almost certainly be a Republican despite Bruce's handwringing Hillary Clinton is a severely damaged candidate in the general election. All the things the anti-libertarian and big government left loved that Obama did they may have cause to rue it the next administration is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.

GD did you read that link by Fareed Zakaria  I posted about how the Republican party has been let down through the years by there presidents ...he talks about exactly what you mention. So its not just you who feels this way 

[Guard Dog]

I'm afraid Fareed Zakaria is not a man whose opinions I place any value in. But in this case I'd agree. The last two Republican presidents have preached limited government and delivered anything but. I always wondered at how GWB drove the democrats into shrieking insanity but with the exception of foreign policy and tax policy he was more of a democrat than Bill Clinton was. His father was no better. If Dukakis had been elected in his place the nation of Kuwait would not exist today but little else would be different. Although Clinton would not have been elected.

 

The last President who respected the limits of their office was Ford. Although Reagan probably did not know the details of the Iran to Nicaragua weapons trade. Reagan was the kind of leader who told his staff what he wanted to happen and let them worry about the details of making it happen.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

https://youtu.be/qnBEYNsSlEE

[Namutree]

I always wondered at how GWB drove the democrats into shrieking insanity but with the exception of foreign policy 

 

In what way was GWB's foreign policy seriously different than the democrat's?

[Guard Dog]

 

I always wondered at how GWB drove the democrats into shrieking insanity but with the exception of foreign policy 

 

In what way was GWB's foreign policy seriously different than the democrat's?

 

Gore would not have gone into Afghanistan after 9-11. He definitely would not have gone into Iraq ever.

[Elerond]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/david-cay-johnston-agree-bernie-sanders-article-1.2521997

 

"Survey after poll after focus group shows that substantial majorities of Republicans support much of the Sanders economic plan. Many of those Republicans currently support Donald Trump, with his vague promises to stick it to the rich, improve the lot of working class Americans and protect Social Security."

 

Sanders the republican candidate in among of democrats who comes from independent background 

 

 

[Guard Dog]

Well they do favor the ideas of scaling back the whole big brother thing the NSA & Justice Dept. has going now. They'll find common ground with Bernie there. Most folks who paid attention in high school economics class can see the sense in restoring the banking firewalls of Glass-Stengal so they agree with him there. They probably are with him on trade protectionism. But when it comes to taxing businesses out of existence and punishing people for investing and taxing the middle class into the lower class he loses everyone there.

[Elerond]

 

Rubio's debating techniques is bit too old school for me, but maybe it works in his target audience

[BruceVC]

 

 

I always wondered at how GWB drove the democrats into shrieking insanity but with the exception of foreign policy 

 

In what way was GWB's foreign policy seriously different than the democrat's?

 

Gore would not have gone into Afghanistan after 9-11. He definitely would not have gone into Iraq ever.

 

The invasion of Afghanistan was and is perfectly justified..we can debate Iraq but not Afghanistan. But its time to pull out of Afghanistan 

But mark my words .....the moment the USA pulls out of Afghanistan it will resort to a more active civil war and maybe the Taliban will gain control again

 

And once again remember my powers of prognostication you will see the likes of Zora saying " the USA has also destroyed Afghanistan like Iraq 

I'm just using Zora as an example ...I hope he won't say that but people will say that who are anti-Western

 

But the West cannot stay forever in Afghanistan, they have been there long enough...and guys please remember when the USA pulls out Afghanistan will be in a working condition. The reason I'm harping on this is I'm so tired of the revisionist history we see from many people who blame the invasion of Iraq for the creation of ISIS

 

But the USA left Iraq in a working condition...ISIS didn't exist then. AL-Maliki was repeatedly told to ensure he incorporates the Sunni minority ..he didn't and they became more disillusioned and were victims of Shia violence so when the Syrian war started many Sunni traveled to Syria and ISIS was formed. Some of the the Iraq Sunni also had ties with Al-Qaeda in Iraq and had been fighting the Americas the new Iraq government for years...but the most relevant point is Al-Maliki could have incorporated the Sunni and prevented them from being marginalized in the new Iraq. But some people just ignore this and even some Muslim leaders say things like " The USA is responsible for ISIS" and ignore the other reasons

 

Finally the reason Im mentioning this is because there is a massive difference between how the USA left Iraq and them being responsible for the creation of ISIS....let me know if anyone needs more info on this distinction 

 

The bottom line is the West is NOT directly responsible for ISIS 

[Calax]

 

Rubio's debating techniques is bit too old school for me, but maybe it works in his target audience

Christie used that (almost that exact preset speech) to score some points. Half of Christies responses to Rubio were literally "see folks? He's a freshman senator who's got no executive experiance and who's had no need to deal with the consequences of his actions. He can't even DEBATE and instead throws out canned speeches!"

 

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/02/christie_assails_rubio_on_the_debate_stage.html

Edited February 7, 2016 by Calax

[Barothmuk]

I don't understand why the US media constantly talk about how Hillary Clinton has such an advantage with minority voters.

If you repeat something enough people will come to believe it.

[Calax]

 

I don't understand why the US media constantly talk about how Hillary Clinton has such an advantage with minority voters.

If you repeat something enough people will come to believe it.

 

Like the fact she's a criminal.