Fallout 4...

[Gorgon]

VATs is boring. It's a concession to console peasants. Now that the shooting mechanics are tolerable I'd rather have it gone. Or maybe make it a one shot spectacular with a long cooldown. 

[Longknife]

I don't understand this line of thinking:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3y7h6l/congrats_new_vegas_fans_you_made_someone_who/

 

 

I have my disagreements with the guy (if someone cares to hear them I'll just link my comment in that thread), but my point being more I do not understand what compels a person to want to defend a title so much that they're willing to make a bold claim like "it was always like this, your nostalgia goggles are blinding you! This is exactly like the last game!"

[Lexx]

His definition of railroading is highly flawed. Stopped reading there, it's not worth the anger.

[HoonDing]

Don't even click reddit links.

[Longknife]

His definition of railroading is highly flawed. Stopped reading there, it's not worth the anger.

 

 

I always read. Gotta make sure someone's argument is flawed rather than writing it off as such, imo.

 

 

But the TL;DR of it is that he basically tries to claim that while FO4's factions give similar results regardless of who you choose, New Vegas was guilty of this as well because all of them make you visit the Boomers and BoS. He glosses over that the ending slides do quite a bit of impact despite not being actual gameplay, or divergence in choices.

 

He then states that while FO4 doesn't let you side with evil or be an evil character, he states it's impossible to meaningfully side with the Powder Gangers and help them take out the NCR, nor is it possible to side with the Fiends. Again, glosses over all the quest options that let you be evil.

 

In a nutshell, he uses broad strokes to make comparisons. Granted, yes, Powder Gangers and Fiends are not exactly the pinnacle of amazing writing (though SADLY, they're realistic because quite tragically, groups that stupidly detrimental to society exist), but it just seems very disingenuine to take a small 5% of New Vegas and argue that because it exists, the 50% of similar stuff in FO4 is "the same." Hell no, the scale of the two cannot be compared.

[GhostofAnakin]

His definition of railroading is highly flawed. Stopped reading there, it's not worth the anger.

 

First thing I thought of.  He seems to have a different (wrong) interpretation of what railroading in video games implies for a game.

 

The fact that he dismisses the freedom of choice you had in NV as "oh, well for a brief part you could side with so and so, but in the end you have to reach the same end game" makes me think he doesn't understand the whole point of the many complaints about FO4.

[GhostofAnakin]

Also, has anyone else noticed that conversations sometimes get disrupted and ended early when the NPC you're speaking with suddenly decides to just walk away during the dialogue animation?

 

I was chatting with Kessler in Bunker Hill tonight, and right in the middle of the conversation she decides to walk away, thus ending the conversation and me being unable to now use the workshop in Bunker Hill because the part of the conversation where she says I can never takes place.  And no, I can't resume the conversation by catching up to her again and initiating dialogue.  She just simply rambles something generic about it being nice to see me.

 

It also happens with NPC companions during moments when we're discussing their backstory.  They'll wander off, and I'll have no opportunity to finish the conversation.

[WDeranged]

Also, has anyone else noticed that conversations sometimes get disrupted and ended early when the NPC you're speaking with suddenly decides to just walk away during the dialogue animation?

 

I was chatting with Kessler in Bunker Hill tonight, and right in the middle of the conversation she decides to walk away, thus ending the conversation and me being unable to now use the workshop in Bunker Hill because the part of the conversation where she says I can never takes place.  And no, I can't resume the conversation by catching up to her again and initiating dialogue.  She just simply rambles something generic about it being nice to see me.

 

It also happens with NPC companions during moments when we're discussing their backstory.  They'll wander off, and I'll have no opportunity to finish the conversation.

 

Yep, companions also break into their 'now I trust you implicitly' speech in the middle of battles and other conversations.

Edited December 27, 2015 by WDeranged

[GhostofAnakin]

^I had that happen to me, but at the end of a quest so I ended up missing everything that was said by the NPCs.

 

It was the Vault 81 quest about the cure, and when I brought the cure back, Han**** decides now is the perfect time to start talking about his past.  Meanwhile, the doctor and overseer are talking about the ramifications of the cure, but I missed all that because Han**** wouldn't shut up.  Oh, and Curie decided to also go on about her reasons for wanting to join me as a companion.

 

So I had 3 conversations going at once, and all three were lengthy ones, and I could only respond to one at a time and had no way of pausing the other two until I finished listening to the one.

[Lexx]

3 dialogues at once? Now that's what I call interactivity of the future.

[Longknife]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I truly do LOVE that kid in a fridge plot. It's so perfectly bad. It's the type of bad where if you challenged me to write something worse, I don't think I could.

 

It came up in my youtube vid feed again today, so I sat down and made a list of all the things wrong with the quest's plot:

 

 

 

 

1) Kid is in a fridge for 210 years

2) Kid survives a nuke by jumping in a fridge
3) Kid does not need to eat for 210 years
4) Kid does not need to drink for 210 years

5) Kid does not need to breathe for 210 years

6) Kid does not need to deficate for 210 years OR somehow the methane from his own **** isn't killing him

7) Kid somehow magically knows you have a gun despite being in a fridge

8.) Kid reacts to the sun like you might expect (well, kinda), but he walks JUST ****ING FINE. Let's keep in mind he's been still for as long as Mr. House, yet his muscles are fine.

9) Kid can't open the fridge for some reason

10) For 210 years, no one has found or opened this fridge, despite his pleas

11) Kid somehow cannot figure out his parents are probably dead by now

12) The kids parents somehow saw fit to sit on their asses doing nothing in or around their run down old home for 210 years instead of relocating to a place where society is rebuilding, even despite raiders just outside

13) Despite their dedication to their old home, the parents apparently never saw fit to go looking for their kid in the general vicinity, as he wasn't that far from home and surely they would have some idea as to his last known whereabouts
14) Parents immediately recognize their son despite the fact he's now ghoulified and looks nothing alike

15) Kid immediately recognizes his parents despite the fact they're now ghoulified and look nothing alike

16) I call horse**** on the coincidence that they all got ghoulified

17) Writer attempts to pat himself on the back and claim they're all ghoulified because "genetics," but even this is flawed as genetics would not explain why both mother and father are fine since they do not share genes.

18) God DAMN mom sounds annoying.

19) This is the calmest family reunion ever. You'd think they'd be a bit more emotional or something

20) HELLO, I AM A RANDOM STRANGER THAT HAS NEVER SPOKEN TO ANY OF YOU BEFORE. FOR SOME REASON I AM OBSESSED WITH THAT KID THAT'S BEEN IN THAT FRIDGE FOR 210 YEARS AND I DEMAND YOU HAND HIM OVER.
21) HELLO AGAIN, IT IS I, THE RANDOM STRANGER. FOR SOME REASON I KNOW OF THE GHOUL KID'S EXISTENCE.

22) I WILL IMMEDIATELY TRUST WHAT YOU SAY AND BELIEVE YOU AT YOUR WORD, RANDOM STRANGER. I SEE NO NEED TO TAKE THREE STEPS FORWARD AND CHECK THE HOUSE MYSELF. GOODBYE FOREVER.
23) OH AND ONE MORE THING. IF YOU'RE SUGGESTING I ONLY DISCOVERED THE GHOUL KID'S WHEREABOUTS TWO MINUTES AGO AS I SAW YOU WALKING WITH HIM, THIS CONTRADICTS THE FACT THAT I'M TRUSTING YOU THAT THE GHOULS ARE MAGICALLY GONE, CONSIDERING I SAW YOU WALK IN WITH THEM. OKAY, GOODBYE FOREVER NOW.
24) Mom's loud-as-**** "SHHHHHH EVERYBODY BE QUIET" that occurs WHEN NO ONE IS EVEN SPEAKING and right after the random mysterious man has bought the "nobody's home" line.

25) Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that somewhere in Bethesda HQ, a convo like this probably happened:

 

 

"So there's this kid right? And he's been locked in a fridge for 210 years, and you have to help him!"
"I like it so far! How do you help him?"
"You shoot the door off so he can get out, then you escort him home!"
"Wait!"
"What's wrong?"
"Realistically speaking, if he comes outside for the first time in 210 years, he should be sensitive to sunlight. There should be a scene where he struggles to handle the light."
"You're right! Thank god you're here to remind me to include that! Otherwise people might've doubted the plausibility and realism of this plotline!"

 

How in the fu-?

 

26) Similar to above, once again, Bethesda felt it neccesary to provide some sort of realistic explanation as to why the entire family got ghoulified, and despite this, thought "NAH GOOD ENOUGH" and never considered any realism issues regarding food, water, oxygen, mental stability, muscle deterioration, suffocating off your own waste fumes, or any of the other natural causes of death that should've killed the kid. The priorities with which parts of the quest to assign realistic explanations are so damned backwards it's insane.

27) Kid has not aged. Was this always a thing...?

 

 

 

Let me know if my list is missing anything.

 

 

 

 

^I had that happen to me, but at the end of a quest so I ended up missing everything that was said by the NPCs.

 

It was the Vault 81 quest about the cure, and when I brought the cure back, Han**** decides now is the perfect time to start talking about his past.  Meanwhile, the doctor and overseer are talking about the ramifications of the cure, but I missed all that because Han**** wouldn't shut up.  Oh, and Curie decided to also go on about her reasons for wanting to join me as a companion.

 

So I had 3 conversations going at once, and all three were lengthy ones, and I could only respond to one at a time and had no way of pausing the other two until I finished listening to the one.

 

 

I think I'd brought this up earlier, but this is my #1 reason for why I'm not sure real-time dialog is an improvement. As it stands now, real-time dialog can get you killed or get in the way. Imagine New Vegas if Malcom Holmes did not freeze time when he spoke with you. As it stands he's immersion-breaking because he casually runs up to you while fighting a deathclaw, but he's immersion breaking BECAUSE the alternative is that he makes the player ragequit by locking you in place so he can tell you a bedtime story while a deathclaw rips your face off.

 

 

Yknow, like this:

 

 

 

 

So yeah, honestly until that's fixed...? I'm not sure real-time dialog is better than frozen. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but I will say the disadvantages of real-time dialog REEEEEAAAALLY stand out when they happen...

Edited December 27, 2015 by Longknife

[Rosbjerg]

It's a massive improvement, if the dialoge could be reset (and why on Earth cant you ask the same questions anymore?).. Simply because stuff like that happens and - seriously that's hilarious.

[GhostofAnakin]

It's a massive improvement, if the dialoge could be reset (and why on Earth cant you ask the same questions anymore?).. Simply because stuff like that happens and - seriously that's hilarious.

 

Yeah, I kind of miss being able to ask NPCs things over again.  It's especially useful in situations like above where something is going on while the dialogue plays out the first time and you miss everything.

 

Continuing on the dialogue note, there are so many "named" NPCs in FO4 that have pretty much nothing to say to you.  I liked it better in previous RPGs where if you saw a named NPC, chances are they had something significant to say or had a quest for you.  In FO4, it seems like 75% of the named NPCs could have simply been called "Security Guard" or "Scavenger" or "Resident" with how little you can actually interact with them.

 

It's almost as though Bethesda did that intentionally to fool gamers into thinking there's so many characters you can interact with, when in fact there aren't many.

[HoonDing]

Fallout 4 was a mistake

 

its nothing but trash

[GhostofAnakin]

Another minor issue I have with the NPC companion pathfinding -- it's a chore to get them into an elevator.  They'll stop just outside the doors, and even when I command them to go inside, they'll move around like they can't find the entrance to the elevator.  Often times I'd have to just leave them and hope they magically appear on the floor the elevator drops me at.

[Longknife]

It's a massive improvement, if the dialoge could be reset (and why on Earth cant you ask the same questions anymore?).. Simply because stuff like that happens and - seriously that's hilarious.

 

 

It's a matter of taste really, and the only instance where I would definitely say something needs to be addressed is when you're FORCED into a conversation. Dying because some random guy demanded to talk to you can be really annoying. If they toggled it so that dialog did indeed freeze time if the convo was forced, I think that'd be a worthy compromise.

 

In Skyrim there was a thief that would unload his stolen goods on you, forced conversation. Died so many times to this idiot approaching me mid-fight.

[GhostofAnakin]

It's as if Bethesda gave up about a quarter of the way through the game in terms of really putting the extra bit of effort into the product.

 

When I first met Piper outside Diamond City, her body animations were actually pretty cool.  When she was talking to that security guard over the PA system, she was also gesturing with her hands and body in a (somewhat) realistic manner.  But after that, and her conversation with the Mayor, she basically just spoke without any body language associated with the dialogue.

 

When I first saw that, I was like, "Okay, Bethesda seems to have put a lot of time into making the characters seem life-like".  It went downhill from that point on.

 

You fooled me good, Bethesda.

[Vaeliorin]

It's a massive improvement, if the dialoge could be reset (and why on Earth cant you ask the same questions anymore?).. Simply because stuff like that happens and - seriously that's hilarious.

It's great until your buffs wear off because some villian decides to spend 2-3 minutes monologuing.

[GhostofAnakin]

I can't find Curie.  I sent her back to Sanctuary Hills because I wanted to travel with someone else, but I can't find her anywhere in Sanctuary Hills now that I'm looking for her.

[Lexx]

Build a bell and ring it to summon everyone to you.

[Gorgon]

NPCs sometimes walk back. You teleport. Hence it takes them a while to get there. There are also a lot of places for them to hide in sanctuary.

[Oerwinde]

Beat the institute path. What a disappointment. No slideshow, not that its a big deal because there isn't multiple ways to deal with things in the game. Just "blah blah blah wasteland is crap, blah blah blah family, blah blah blah war, war never changes. There isn't really an ending.Now that I'm the director of the institute I expected to actually be able to do stuff, like free the synths, actually aid people in the wasteland, etc. But no, just the same repeating quests.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Oerwinde

[WDeranged]

Beat the institute path. What a disappointment. No slideshow, not that its a big deal because there isn't multiple ways to deal with things in the game. Just "blah blah blah wasteland is crap, blah blah blah family, blah blah blah war, war never changes. There isn't really an ending.Now that I'm the director of the institute I expected to actually be able to do stuff, like free the synths, actually aid people in the wasteland, etc. But no, just the same repeating quests.

 

I found myself wishing they hadn't made The Institute playable and just went the traditional 'defeat big bad' route.  At the very least you could have uncovered some darker secrets (an FEV lab apparently isn't worth mentioning) while working for them, anything's better than the derpy railroading we got.

[Gorgon]

The story is really terrible, but before you find out how terrible the game is you actually do get a lot of hours of fun just exploring. So I guess that's.... good ?

[WDeranged]

The story is really terrible, but before you find out how terrible the game is you actually do get a lot of hours of fun just exploring. So I guess that's.... good ?

 

I think that initial burst of fun made the failures more bitter for me.  For the first 10-20 hours I thought it was going to be their best game, it had the potential

Edited December 29, 2015 by WDeranged