Was the Adra Dragon in the process of becoming a god or a demigod?

[Infinitron]

It seems that the gods of Eora were constructed by combining the souls of thousands of Engwithans.

 

The Adra Dragon has been essentially eating souls out of Od Nau's adra statue for centuries. Apparently, this granted it god-like omnipotent powers, such as the ability to observe what was going on on the surface for a radius of miles.

 

Similar process?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Infinitron

[gkathellar]

 this granted it god-like omnipotent powers, such as the ability to observe what was going on on the surface for a radius of miles.

 

Emphasis mine. Omnipotent? Say what?

 

As is clear from the Alpine Dragon, the Adra Dragon was strong, but not improbably so for a member of her species. She had powers of astral projection, telepathy, and possession, but that's a far cry from being an intangible spiritual construct with ill-defined but generally tremendous influence on the physical plane, as the gods are. And he herself noted that once the Adra ran out, she'd starve to death like any other animal that ran out of food.

[Infinitron]

 

 this granted it god-like omnipotent powers, such as the ability to observe what was going on on the surface for a radius of miles.

 

Emphasis mine. Omnipotent? Say what?

 

As is clear from the Alpine Dragon, the Adra Dragon was strong, but not improbably so for a member of her species. She had powers of astral projection, telepathy, and possession, but that's a far cry from being an intangible spiritual construct with ill-defined but generally tremendous influence on the physical plane, as the gods are. And he herself noted that once the Adra ran out, she'd starve to death like any other animal that ran out of food.

 

 

I probably meant to say "omniscient".

Edited December 8, 2015 by Infinitron

[JerekKruger]

I thought she was in the process of eventually starving to death. Did I misunderstand that?

[Sannom]

It seems that the gods of Eora were constructed by combining the souls of thousands of Engwithans.

 

The Adra Dragon has been essentially eating souls out of Od Nau's adra statue for centuries. Apparently, this granted it god-like omnipotent powers, such as the ability to observe what was going on on the surface for a radius of miles.

 

Similar process?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the process was similar, even if it seems obvious that the dragon was still far from being as powerful as the gods. Plus, now that she inhabits the body of a human, it's even hard to say that she is a "dragon" anymore, she feels like something else entirely.

 

To be honest, I think that's another reason why Thaos stayed behind to lead the Leaden Key, cripple animancy and make sure that the secrets of the gods were preserved : if it came out that the gods were artificial, created by kith through animancy, some jackass was bound to try and use the same process to give him/herself the power of a god.

[Infinitron]

You just spoiled the plot for PoE2

Edited December 8, 2015 by Infinitron

[PrimeJunta]

To be honest, I think that's another reason why Thaos stayed behind to lead the Leaden Key, cripple animancy and make sure that the secrets of the gods were preserved : if it came out that the gods were artificial, created by kith through animancy, some jackass was bound to try and use the same process to give him/herself the power of a god.

I wonder how that would work actually?

 

The Engwithans had to reduce masses of souls to raw essence and then make the gods out of that. How would a mortal absorb enough souls to get there while retaining any semblance of identity?

 

(Except dragons. They're clearly special.)

[anameforobsidian]

The Vithrack could be trying to make some hivemind god like the Illithid had in D&D.  Without the whole stupid mind control coming from a god in a possible future.

 

 

But there's already proof in game that mortals can devour a large amount of souls and reinforce their individuality.  Fampyr in general do that, use the souls of others to increase the integrity of their identity.  The talking Fampyr in Caed Nua is especially proof of this.  Why couldn't they do it on a larger scale?

 

Hell, the gods themselves could have originally been living people who died in the process (or were dusted).

[Fenixp]

The gods constructed by Engwithans were not just some ordinary inanimate objects infused with souls tho. It seemed to me like each and every god is a huge and complex machine, essentially powered by souls, so I don't think a lot of consumed souls necessarily equals power of a god. Engwithans were quite exceptional at the whole souls business, hell, they probably finished Dark Souls without dying once on their first try.

[gkathellar]

But there's already proof in game that mortals can devour a large amount of souls and reinforce their individuality.  Fampyr in general do that, use the souls of others to increase the integrity of their identity.  The talking Fampyr in Caed Nua is especially proof of this.  Why couldn't they do it on a larger scale?

 

Yeah, but we know eatin' souls en masse doesn't make you a god because the Watcher can do exactly this in Heritage Hill, and all they get for their trouble is +1 might and an endurance multiplier.

[Torm51]

 

But there's already proof in game that mortals can devour a large amount of souls and reinforce their individuality.  Fampyr in general do that, use the souls of others to increase the integrity of their identity.  The talking Fampyr in Caed Nua is especially proof of this.  Why couldn't they do it on a larger scale?

 

Yeah, but we know eatin' souls en masse doesn't make you a god because the Watcher can do exactly this in Heritage Hill, and all they get for their trouble is +1 might and an endurance multiplier.

 

LOL truth

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah, but we know eatin' souls en masse doesn't make you a god because the Watcher can do exactly this in Heritage Hill, and all they get for their trouble is +1 might and an endurance multiplier.

You actually did that?

 

You're a horrible, horrible person.

[Torm51]

 

Yeah, but we know eatin' souls en masse doesn't make you a god because the Watcher can do exactly this in Heritage Hill, and all they get for their trouble is +1 might and an endurance multiplier.

You actually did that?

 

You're a horrible, horrible person.

 

I did it once on my Goldpact Knight.  For Paladins that's only one of 2 orders you wont get a negative on your faith and conviction for..the other being Bleak Walkers.  He was  mercenary and considered those souls expendable if it helped him become more powerful and stop Thaos which was the bigger picture.  Also they hadn't paid him anything so no Bond was made nothing personal.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Torm51

[gkathellar]

 

Yeah, but we know eatin' souls en masse doesn't make you a god because the Watcher can do exactly this in Heritage Hill, and all they get for their trouble is +1 might and an endurance multiplier.

You actually did that?

 

You're a horrible, horrible person.

 

I do my damnedest. XD

[anameforobsidian]

Well, I mean there are two counters -

 

1.  It could be that you have to die to be transformed into God(ess).

 

2.  The fact that it did make you stronger could mean that you need a lot more souls.  The one in Heritage Hill was only one that acted as a bank, and it only captured souls in a very, very small area.  The rest of them acted as a network that spanned a large country.

[tinysalamander]

It could also be that soul are just (more or less) a fuel for the process and you need some know-how as well.

[why]

The Vithrack could be trying to make some hivemind god like the Illithid had in D&D.  Without the whole stupid mind control coming from a god in a possible future.

 

 

But there's already proof in game that mortals can devour a large amount of souls and reinforce their individuality.  Fampyr in general do that, use the souls of others to increase the integrity of their identity.  The talking Fampyr in Caed Nua is especially proof of this.  Why couldn't they do it on a larger scale?

 

Hell, the gods themselves could have originally been living people who died in the process (or were dusted).

I've been hitting Od Nua's old hideaway pretty hard lately on my current run and both of these things hit me in a way. Not exactly the godlike powers thing, but I was worried that by helping the Vithrack, which I didn't do on my other run, might end up making them too powerful and dangerous to the kith. The other thing that made me wonder was the whole thing about that Fampyr talking about how he had limited resources left and was also worrying about running out of Adra since the beetles were eating up everything else. This was clearly a concern, but he seemed unable or unwilling to act other than cutting off his former buddies and hording the remaining arm for his own consumption. The Vithrack were a nobler and entertaining bunch than that rat bastard Fampyr, to be sure.

[Infinitron]

You can discover that Fampyr's real name a few levels down, then come back and confront him about it (he pretends not to know what you're talking about). It's a nice little touch.

 

His name is Cabiros, one of Od Nua's head wizards (or something like that).

Edited December 20, 2015 by Infinitron

[Sannom]

Is that what the ghost of the priest and the hidden door are about on level 13? I went through the 8th level of Caed Nua before doing any of the Leaden Key's quests and the guy attacked me when we couldn't understand each other, so I never got anything from him (aside from his armor).

 

 

You just spoiled the plot for PoE2

Nah, I'm sure that any future plot for PoE will involve Skaen somehow. Between the creation of what seems to be his first organized clergy in Dyrford (lead by an educated man, probably part of the scientific elite), the hints in the Collector's Book that the Quiet Slave might one day choose a side in a major international conflict and his apparently non-sensical demand to re-power Woedica, I think the old man might be up to something really, really bad.

[PrimeJunta]

Skaen is always up to something really, really bad. 

 

And it would make a great, excellent, super-cool basis for Pillars 2.

[Torm51]

The way Skaen plays it at the end of the game.....those two powerful old presences/deities whatever you call them plotting together if successful..would be absolute disaster and misery.

[anameforobsidian]

Skaen doesn't make a ton of sense from a manufactured God perspective.  The Engwithans made gods because they desired order in the universe.   Who makes a god that exists to upset that order?  Most of the other Gods that aren't terribly desirable match an established phenomenon (Rmyrgand because entropy exists, Ondra because the sea is always terrible, etc.).  Rebellious slaves exist, but if the Engwithan's were slave holders they wouldn't want to promote that behavior.

 

Did the Engwithan's make gods from their own mythology, or did they craft a new mythology for the gods they made?  If it was the latter, then perhaps Skaen is the result of some unplanned interference.

[Sannom]

Skaen doesn't make a ton of sense from a manufactured God perspective. The Engwithans made gods because they desired order in the universe. Who makes a god that exists to upset that order?  Most of the other Gods that aren't terribly desirable match an established phenomenon (Rmyrgand because entropy exists, Ondra because the sea is always terrible, etc.).  Rebellious slaves exist, but if the Engwithan's were slave holders they wouldn't want to promote that behavior.

 

Did the Engwithan's make gods from their own mythology, or did they craft a new mythology for the gods they made?  If it was the latter, then perhaps Skaen is the result of some unplanned interference.

To the contrary, I would say that Skaen makes sense only as a manufactured god. His portfolio is too narrow and too specific otherwise. Remember, he's not the god of revolution and change, but the god of violent rebellion and secret hatred. It feels like the Engwythian realized that even though they wanted a society with clear social separations and a powerful leading caste, they also needed something to make sure that those in power didn't abuse it, sparkling a desire for change and justice. Enter Skaen, a god so cruel and brutal that only the very, very downtrotted and oppressed would dare call for his help. The guy sacrifices the most determined of his followers in exchange for his help, ensuring that the movement can't go much farther than horrible revenge against those who hurt them.

[why]

That dragon in the White March had soul twins (plural) and seemed to suffer from them.  However, killing/consuming them didn't seem to augment his power as such, although it did aleviate the suffering of their existence.  It's almost like a counter-adra dragon scenario.

 

As far as the gods go, I thought different gods had come in and out of existence.  Is Skaen even one of the origianl fabricated gods?  I followed the story, but I didn't pour over it.  Plus I'm old and dense, so maybe I missed something.

[evilcat]

 

To be honest, I think that's another reason why Thaos stayed behind to lead the Leaden Key, cripple animancy and make sure that the secrets of the gods were preserved : if it came out that the gods were artificial, created by kith through animancy, some jackass was bound to try and use the same process to give him/herself the power of a god.

 

And that would be decent main story for PoE2 ) , not so original but it is good plot.