European Refugee Crisis : Part 2

[BruceVC]

 

Yes, I understand the policy...but that doesnt mean everything about it I agree with ..people  have been setting themselves on fire...you need to least make those jungle hell holes more hospitable  

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-27/refugee-sets-himself-on-fire-in-nauru-protest/7363530

 

 

Not only do you understand it, you see justification in it by your own words. That's okay Bruce, we all know you admire Australia's refugee policy. You even said you understand why we are admired.

 

Ah yes. Of course Australia is to blame for someone setting themselves on fire. Even the UNHCR staff just watched. tsk tsk UN.

 

You never did debating at school did you Hiro?

[Hiro Protagonist]

You never did debating at school did you Hiro?

 

I've proved you wrong again Bruce. Here you go on about Australia and its bad policy on refugees in this thread and you admire Sweden's approach and then I pull up a post of yours from earlier this year with you admiring Australia and see justification in its refugee policy. You make this so easy.

[BruceVC]

 

You never did debating at school did you Hiro?

 

I've proved you wrong again Bruce. Here you go on about Australia and its bad policy on refugees in this thread and you admire Sweden's approach and then I pull up a post of yours from earlier this year with you admiring Australia and see justification in its refugee policy. You make this so easy.

 

No you not understanding my point, I admire both policies ....but there are legitimate issues with the Oz one 

 

And I do admire Australia...but I couldn't live there 

[Darkpriest]

This happened in Sweden recently:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgLy-8kDlT0

 

What a nation of brave people and standup guards and policemen. The guy filming it even told the robbers that it is time to go, they've been there long enough

 

This is some prank, right? I mean it can;t be real....

[Valsuelm]

 

This happened in Sweden recently:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgLy-8kDlT0

 

What a nation of brave people and standup guards and policemen. The guy filming it even told the robbers that it is time to go, they've been there long enough

 

This is some prank, right? I mean it can;t be real....

 

Why not?

 

Staged or not (I'm guessing it's not),it's fully plausible. Wacky stuff like this happens all the time, it's just not usually well publicized.

[Gorth]

But lets be honest even the Abo's arent integrated properly ...or they not very happy in your society?

Ungrateful louts. They were even reclassified as humans in what, 1967?

 

(before that, they were considered part of the flora and fauna of Australia, no kidding)

[BruceVC]

 

But lets be honest even the Abo's arent integrated properly ...or they not very happy in your society?

Ungrateful louts. They were even reclassified as humans in what, 1967?

 

(before that, they were considered part of the flora and fauna of Australia, no kidding)

 

I know

 

But Gorthie I'm not trying to attack all Australians but they do have issues around integration and how they feel about things like racism 

 

After Apartheid there was a surge of  white people  who had resources and  immigrated immediately to Australia....including my cousins. For these South Africans they basically had a view " that black people cannot run countries ".....for people like me we would rather not have them in SA. Its nothing personal but we dont want white people in SA who dont believe that black people cannot run countries

 

Now I'm not saying all Australians are racist, of course not but that country definitely has   segments of people who are racist and unconcerned with announcing it 

[obyknven]

German Govt gives new immigrants a "Sex Manual"

The German government has launched a new website
offering "advice on sex and sexuality for migrants who have not
been living long in Germany.”
Called “ Zanzu: My body in words and images ," the site, which
went live earlier this year, has 12 language options, including
Arabic, Turkish, Albanian and English. It features sections on
sexual health, relationships and emotions, family planning and
legal issues – and a number of graphic diagrams, images and
descriptions depicting all manner of sexual acts.
Launched in the wake of the notorious New Year’s Eve sex attacks
, in which a large number of women trying to celebrate the New
Year were assaulted by groups of single men believed to be
migrants, the site has become a focal point for often angry
discourse around the immigration issue.
Some commentators have praised Zanzu for its frank approach to
sexuality, which they view as necessary to help refugees from
conservative religious cultures integrate into Germany’s far more
liberal society.
Others have criticised it as being patronising towards migrants.
Heinz-Jürgen Voss, a sex scientist at the University of
Merseburg, told the Washington Post it was “racist” to assume
that Syrians and Iraqis, for instance, were less schooled than
Germans when it came to sex.
“It’s important to promote this kind of open and free sexuality,
to fight for it,” he added. “It’s not something that the state
can force people to do, to live openly. But it needs to be negotiated.”

Lol, German govt think rapefugees don't known how do fikki-fikki

[Meshugger]

German Govt gives new immigrants a "Sex Manual"

The German government has launched a new website

offering "advice on sex and sexuality for migrants who have not

been living long in Germany.”

Called “ Zanzu: My body in words and images ," the site, which

went live earlier this year, has 12 language options, including

Arabic, Turkish, Albanian and English. It features sections on

sexual health, relationships and emotions, family planning and

legal issues – and a number of graphic diagrams, images and

descriptions depicting all manner of sexual acts.

Launched in the wake of the notorious New Year’s Eve sex attacks

, in which a large number of women trying to celebrate the New

Year were assaulted by groups of single men believed to be

migrants, the site has become a focal point for often angry

discourse around the immigration issue.

Some commentators have praised Zanzu for its frank approach to

sexuality, which they view as necessary to help refugees from

conservative religious cultures integrate into Germany’s far more

liberal society.

Others have criticised it as being patronising towards migrants.

Heinz-Jürgen Voss, a sex scientist at the University of

Merseburg, told the Washington Post it was “racist” to assume

that Syrians and Iraqis, for instance, were less schooled than

Germans when it came to sex.

“It’s important to promote this kind of open and free sexuality,

to fight for it,” he added. “It’s not something that the state

can force people to do, to live openly. But it needs to be negotiated.”

Lol, German govt think rapefugees don't known how do fikki-fikki

 

They are doing it so that the farmers can have their sheep and cattle in peace.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352779/Bestiality-brothels-spreading-Germany-campaigner-claims-abusers-sex-animals-lifestyle-choice.html

 

Seriously though, those guys should be in working camps,  getting education in construction and engineering so that they can go back later and rebuild their country with their new skills.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

 

German Govt gives new immigrants a "Sex Manual"

The German government has launched a new website

offering "advice on sex and sexuality for migrants who have not

been living long in Germany.”

Called “ Zanzu: My body in words and images ," the site, which

went live earlier this year, has 12 language options, including

Arabic, Turkish, Albanian and English. It features sections on

sexual health, relationships and emotions, family planning and

legal issues – and a number of graphic diagrams, images and

descriptions depicting all manner of sexual acts.

Launched in the wake of the notorious New Year’s Eve sex attacks

, in which a large number of women trying to celebrate the New

Year were assaulted by groups of single men believed to be

migrants, the site has become a focal point for often angry

discourse around the immigration issue.

Some commentators have praised Zanzu for its frank approach to

sexuality, which they view as necessary to help refugees from

conservative religious cultures integrate into Germany’s far more

liberal society.

Others have criticised it as being patronising towards migrants.

Heinz-Jürgen Voss, a sex scientist at the University of

Merseburg, told the Washington Post it was “racist” to assume

that Syrians and Iraqis, for instance, were less schooled than

Germans when it came to sex.

“It’s important to promote this kind of open and free sexuality,

to fight for it,” he added. “It’s not something that the state

can force people to do, to live openly. But it needs to be negotiated.”

Lol, German govt think rapefugees don't known how do fikki-fikki

 

They are doing it so that the farmers can have their sheep and cattle in peace.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352779/Bestiality-brothels-spreading-Germany-campaigner-claims-abusers-sex-animals-lifestyle-choice.html

 

Seriously though, those guys should be in working camps,  getting education in construction and engineering so that they can go back later and rebuild their country with their new skills.

 

This article is extremely offensive to German people as it suggests the depraved practice of bestiality is somehow normal

 

Its only legal in NZ and parts of Oz ...but that is historical and we cant expect sudden change 

[HoonDing]

"This article is extremely offensive to German people as it suggests the depraved practice of bestiality is somehow normal"

 

at least Germany doesn't have many goats, those sheep though

[Malcador]

So did we ever find out what the problems in Sweden were?

[BruceVC]

So did we ever find out what the problems in Sweden were?

No

 

This is Hiro ...why should he respond, I never expect him to do anything so that way I'm never disappointed 

[obyknven]

Meanwhile in Turkey. Marxist patrols (MLKP - underground organization banned in Turkey, ) on streets of Istanbul.

 

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist–Leninist_Communist_Party_(Turkey/Northern_Kurdistan)

 

Strong secular armed movements (despite butthurt of authorities) - It's main difference between jihadist religious Europe and secular Turkey.

[Meshugger]

I think that he is referring to several nights of gangs setting cars on fire and then attacking the firemen, police and ambulances when they arrive. The thing is that it is happening in smaller cities, like Norrköping and Borlänge. It's a no-brainer what kind of people they're dealing with.

 

To quote the police: "Sometimes, the situation feels hopeless".

 

Sources:

(swedish) http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22824184.ab

(finnish) http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000001179990.html

 

What i find interesting is that these kinds of news used to be headlines 5-10 years ago, now they barely reported and turned down the memoryhole. It's like society have been desentisized of it and it is simply part of everyday life that cars should burn and the police and fire brigade should be attacked every now and then. Hence, Hiro is simply testing if this theory bears any merit, and because of the lack of responses, perhaps it does.

 

But what do i know anyway.

[Hiro Protagonist]

So did we ever find out what the problems in Sweden were?

 

According to Elerond and Bruce, no major problems at all. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

[BruceVC]

I think that he is referring to several nights of gangs setting cars on fire and then attacking the firemen, police and ambulances when they arrive. The thing is that it is happening in smaller cities, like Norrköping and Borlänge. It's a no-brainer what kind of people they're dealing with.

 

To quote the police: "Sometimes, the situation feels hopeless".

 

Sources:

(swedish) http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22824184.ab

(finnish) http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000001179990.html

 

What i find interesting is that these kinds of news used to be headlines 5-10 years ago, now they barely reported and turned down the memoryhole. It's like society have been desentisized of it and it is simply part of everyday life that cars should burn and the police and fire brigade should be attacked every now and then. Hence, Hiro is simply testing if this theory bears any merit, and because of the lack of responses, perhaps it does.

 

But what do i know anyway.

Not making them headlines makes sense, apparently SA has got 2 new awards . We are both the murder capital ( 50/day ) and rape capital (350/day ) in the world 

 

Now why would you want this information on the front page....its inevitable this crime every day so rather keep it on older pages

 

And yes becoming  desentisized is the best way to feel, its not like you dont have emotions but you just dont feel fear or worry. So you go about your life. Its fine and you wont worry so its a good place to  be at

[BruceVC]

 

So did we ever find out what the problems in Sweden were?

 

According to Elerond and Bruce, no major problems at all. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

 

Ask Indira....then you can  get an informed view about Sweden. But I think what we know you may assume is serious but we dont ?

[Hiro Protagonist]

What i find interesting is that these kinds of news used to be headlines 5-10 years ago, now they barely reported and turned down the memoryhole. It's like society have been desentisized of it and it is simply part of everyday life that cars should burn and the police and fire brigade should be attacked every now and then. Hence, Hiro is simply testing if this theory bears any merit, and because of the lack of responses, perhaps it does.

 

But what do i know anyway.

 

I haven't been following the European refugee crisis that much due to real life and stuff. So when I had a spare moment, I decided to sit down and read some things about it and one country in particular (Sweden) kept coming up with some alarming statistics and various other things. I then went back over the last 6 months or so of news reports and interviews, concentrating more on Sweden and comparing to other countries (eg. Norway, FInland) are handling the situation in their countries as well.

 

This is all on the internet and the information is out there. But I think you are right in that if someone brings up Sweden and say it appears they have massive problems, people are now like 'huh, watcha talkin about? haven't heard anything about Sweden, so what's the problem?'. Or they're so used to the problems in countries like Sweden and become desensitised to it all that it's now become normal.

[BruceVC]

 

What i find interesting is that these kinds of news used to be headlines 5-10 years ago, now they barely reported and turned down the memoryhole. It's like society have been desentisized of it and it is simply part of everyday life that cars should burn and the police and fire brigade should be attacked every now and then. Hence, Hiro is simply testing if this theory bears any merit, and because of the lack of responses, perhaps it does.

 

But what do i know anyway.

 

I haven't been following the European refugee crisis that much due to real life and stuff. So when I had a spare moment, I decided to sit down and read some things about it and one country in particular (Sweden) kept coming up with some alarming statistics and various other things. I then went back over the last 6 months or so of news reports and interviews, concentrating more on Sweden and comparing to other countries (eg. Norway, FInland) are handling the situation in their countries as well.

 

This is all on the internet and the information is out there. But I think you are right in that if someone brings up Sweden and say it appears they have massive problems, people are now like 'huh, watcha talkin about? haven't heard anything about Sweden, so what's the problem?'. Or they're so used to the problems in countries like Sweden and become desensitised to it all that it's now become normal.

 

No Hiro.....lets be fair. It has some societal and integration issues

 

But to say the problems are massive is hyperbole....remember we want to keep things in perspective 

[Hiro Protagonist]

 

But I think what we know you may assume is serious but we dont ?

 

No Hiro.....lets be fair. It has some societal and integration issues

 

But to say the problems are massive is hyperbole....remember we want to keep things in perspective 

 

You're admitting Sweden has some societal and integration issues. What are those issues? And we can determine what you think is not serious is really not serious at all. For example, Meshugger's post with cars being burned, police and firefighters and ambulances being attacked aren't serious at all for you.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hi y'all!

 

 

 

After that lovely Texan greeting, I'd be happy to shed some light on the refugee situation in Sweden, although brief.

 

 

 

First off - those cases, where cars have been set on fire and rescue teams got attacked. They occur in suburbs with high unemployment rates, and most people there, although some have quite some decent education, still won't find work. These suburbs also have a high percentage of immigrant families. I partly lived in a few of these suburbs myself as a kid. And the conditions then were better as far as social services and general care went. However, back then, they were still pretty bad places to be in, with all sorts of criminal activity, and plenty of jaded people with physical, psychological and/or drug problems. Sadly, at the turn of the century, things took a turn for the worst there, and segregation has deepened considerably. However, very few immigrants of these recent wave to Sweden, which was record-breaking - we're speaking 100,000+ peeps in a few months - has yet to try to make a living there.

 

 

 

Instead, they live in housing provided by often cynical property owners (we're speaking ramshackle houses, infested with bed bugs and ****roaches) getting huge government money for each refugee housed. And people of different religions and from different conflicts are mixed and crammed into tight spaces - sometimes Assad-supporter refugees get to live next door with those that have fled his bombs. That's a recipe for disaster. A few voluntary workers and refugees have already been killed at such facilities. Another problem is when some of these desperate individuals are informed that they won't be allowed to stay in Sweden. The worst case last year, was one man so distraught over this message that he went into the nearest IKEA and randomly stabbed a few people. One died, IIRC. My father's family were all war refugees, and everything they experienced weigh heavily on them and exact tolls in the form of mental problems and health issues. There is a huge shortage of psychologists for those tens of thousands of youngsters and men with PTSD.

 

 

 

Having said this much so far, you can tell this won't be a bed of roses for Sweden. For years and decades to come, this will bring high costs and big problems. Still, I'd refrain from using the word "crisis". War is crisis. These people did what we all would try to do if we were in the midst of battle din: flee for our lives. Also, these conflicts have been going on for years and don't seem to end any time soon, so their future is looking grim. Usually, it’s a young man or a father who’ve risked everything to get into Europe, and then he hopes to get the rest of his family over to his new country later. In itself, very risky, but understandable.

 

Overall, Sweden has mustered huge resources. The refugees get to learn Swedish (SFI-education) and most of us are generally positive and try to help as best we can. Perhaps 20%, though, are clearly negative of this development, and something like 1% are outright hostile. Almost a hundred refugee housing complexes have been subjected to arsony last year alone. In the long run, however. It will be a huge boost for Sweden. Over the last 30 years already, Sweden’s population has increased by, IDK, 25%, all immigrants! It’s like one of the last countries that had an open door policy of migration, a bit like Australia and USA, way back when.

 

Still, this open door was shut in their faces just before X-mas, when the government here did a 180 and became one of the most closed nations, with border check points and strict control, the reason given: the situation has gotten out of hand. In part, it was true. There was no more housing available, no more teachers and psychologist, etc. Nor was the number of police officers enough. Not far from where I live, a small town got a refugee facility with Afghanian refugees, almost all boys that had fled the Taliban, which then made up 25 % of the residents of that town.

Edited May 17, 2016 by IndiraLightfoot

[BruceVC]

Hi y'all!

 

 

 

After that lovely Texan greeting, I'd ben happy to shed some light on the refugee situation in Sweden, although brief.

 

 

 

First off - those cases, where cars have been set on fire and rescue teams got attacked. They occur in suburbs with high unemployment rates, and most people there, although some have quite some decent education, still won't find work. These suburbs also have a high percentage of immigrant families. I partly lived in a few of these suburbs myself as a kid. And the conditions when were better as far as social services and general care went. However, back then, they were still pretty bad places to be in, with all sorts of criminal activity, and plenty of jaded people with physical, psychological and/or drug problems. Sadly, at the turn of the century, things took a turn for the worst there, and segregation has deepened considerably. However, very few immigrants of these recent wave to Sweden, which was record-breaking - we're speaking 100,000+ peeps in a few months - has yet to try to make a living there.

 

 

 

Instead, they live in housing provided by often cynical property owners (we're speaking ramshackle houses, infested with bed bugs and ****roaches) getting huge government money for each refugee housed. And people of different religions and from different conflicts are mixed and crammed into tight spaces - sometimes Assad-supporter refugees get to live next door with those that have fled his bombs. That's a recipe for disaster. A few voluntary workers and refugees have already been killed at such facilities. Another problem is when some of these desperate individuals are informed that they won't be allowed to stay in Sweden. The worst case last year, was one man so distraught over this message that he went into the nearest IKEA and randomly stabbed a few people. One died, IIRC. My father's family were all war refugees, and everything they experienced weigh heavily on them and exact tolls in the form of mental problems and health issues. There is a huge shortage of psychologists for those tens of thousands of youngsters and men with PTSD.

 

 

 

Having said this much so far, you can tell this won't be a bed of roses for Sweden. For years and decades to come, this will bring high costs and big problems. Still, I'd refrain from using the word "crisis". War is crisis. These people did what we all would try to do if we were in the midst of battle din: flee for our lives. Also, these conflicts have been going on for years and don't seem to end any time soon, so their future is looking grim. Usually, it’s a young man or a father who’ve risked everything to get into Europe, and then he hopes to get the rest of his family over to his new country later. In itself, very risky, but understandable.

 

Overall, Sweden has mustered huge resources. The refugees get to learn Swedish (SFI-education) and most of us are generally positive and try to help as best we can. Perhaps 20%, though, are clearly negative of this development, and something like 1% are outright hostile. Almost a hundred refugee housing complexes have been subjected to arsony last year alone. In the long run, however. It will be a huge boost for Sweden. Over the last 30 years already, Sweden’s population has increased by, IDK, 25%, all immigrants! It’s like one of the last countries that had an open door policy of migration, a bit like Australia and USA, way back when.

 

Still, this open door was shut in their faces just before X-mas, when the government here did a 180 and became one of the most closed nations, with border check points and strict control, the reason given: the situation has gotten out of hand. In part, it was true. There was no more housing available, no more teachers and psychologist, etc. Nor was the number of police officers enough. Not far from where I live, a small town got a refugee facility with Afghanian refugees, almost all boys that had fled the Taliban, which then made up 25 % of the residents of that town.

Thanks for sharing, I am glad it isn't a crisis. I admire Sweden for this effort ...I doubt I would be so keen

 

Do you mind if Hiro helps out, he will probably want to send money or he may even fly there as he has a real affinity for the refugees ?

[Hiro Protagonist]

Thanks for sharing, I am glad it isn't a crisis. I admire Sweden for this effort ...I doubt I would be so keen

 

Do you mind if Hiro helps out, he will probably want to send money or he may even fly there as he has a real affinity for the refugees ?

 

Ah Bruce. Even Indira said, "For years and decades to come, this will bring high costs and big problems." You don't want to acknowledge that at all.

 

Also, why don't you send some money? And how do you know if I have or have not an affinity for refugees? All I've said, there is massive problems in Sweden (maybe because I've done some research which you clearly haven't) and Meshugger has been right all along with the likes of people such as yourself who dismiss all this as being nothing serious at all.

 

I'd have to applaud Indira for his honesty as there's at least one other person on this forum who can recognise the problems aren't small and not be so dismissive as to trivialise them as has been shown in this thread.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist

[BruceVC]

 

Thanks for sharing, I am glad it isn't a crisis. I admire Sweden for this effort ...I doubt I would be so keen

 

Do you mind if Hiro helps out, he will probably want to send money or he may even fly there as he has a real affinity for the refugees ?

 

Ah Bruce. Even Indira said, "For years and decades to come, this will bring high costs and big problems." You don't want to acknowledge that at all.

 

Also, why don't you send some money? And how do you know if I have or have not an affinity for refugees? All I've said, there is massive problems in Sweden (maybe because I've done some research which you clearly haven't) and Meshugger has been right all along with the likes of people such as yourself who dismiss all this as being nothing serious at all.

 

I'd have to applaud Indira for his honesty as there's at least one other person on this forum who can recognise the problems aren't small and not be so dismissive as to trivialise them as has been shown in this thread.

 

Oh sorry Hiro, I assumed you wanted to get involved which is why you kept asking..my bad