Playing without a rogue or wizard

[ArnoldRimmer]

Has anyone ever played without a rogue or wizard?

 

Were there any problems by not having such NPCs in the party?

[Mocker22]

Rogue isn't required in any way....other classes can learn the mechanics skill.

 

No wizard I'm sure is possible but I personally will always have one. Just too darn good once you get your high level CC spells. If you don't want a wiz you'll certainly need a good CC cipher I would say.

[FlintlockJazz]

I have only played with the companions, never with custom mercs, and since the Rogue companion only became available with the expansion that meant unless my main was a rogue I did not have one.  Always had a mage though, but that's because except for the first playthrough where my main was a wizard I always take Aloth with me because I love the guy, and even on my first playthrough I often stuck Aloth back in for two-mage one-enemy spit-roast action.

[AndreaColombo]

I almost never play with a Rogue.

 

Wizards are powerful and fun to play, but not necessary in my experience.

[KDubya]

Like everyone has said you can have anyone learn the mechanics skill, especially at low levels. To get to skill level 11+ you want to start looking for a Rogue due to the huge skill point savings they get due to the potential "free" starting skill level of three at creation, a savings of at least the highest skill level of mechanics you will take and possibly the sum of the highest two levels.

 

Several of my PotD runs have dropped Aloth around level nine or so and then continued on without any casters. I find it too easy if I keep casters on a full six man team, especially a Wizard. I might try going four man teams with a Wizard and see if the reduced team size lets a Wizard to not blow the game up.

[djphong]

Make a Orlan Tall Grass pike barbarian with max perception, and u'll never have to depend on wizard slick's or cleric's prone seal again.

 

Just finish a PoTD run last week w/o any caster.

[Crucis]

You don't NEED a rogue.  For one thing, there are other classes that get a bonus to Mechanics at creation, albeit +1 rather than the +2 that Rogues get.  And you can take a background that provides another +1 bonus to Mechanics.  IIRC, Chanter and Cipher are two of the classes that give a bonus to starting Mechanics.  Maybe Wizards as well, but I'm not sure without looking.

 

Personally, I always have a rogue because I enjoy having them along

 

As for needing Wizards, no, they're not necessary.  In theory, you can get along without any of the casting classes.  But if you want to have a caster or 2 but not a wizzy, you can get by quite well with a Cipher instead of a Wizard.  Just know that the way you'll need to play the party will be a little different.

[yupper]

Has anyone ever played without a rogue or wizard?

 

Were there any problems by not having such NPCs in the party?

 

My current character is a rogue, although I have previously attempted unfinished playthroughs with other characters. As others have mentioned, any character can pick up mechanics (although it's easier for rogues to do that). So playing without a rogue isn't going to be an issue as long as you have one character who is invested in mechanics to disarm traps.

 

On the other hand, I have found Aloth to be indispensable to my party (currently level 6). He is one of the best damagers in my party right now (along with my PC rogue that is min/maxed with dual sabres). What's surprising to me is that I just picked up Pallegina and she has good damage output (compared to the other party members) even though I am building her like a sword and shield tank...

Edited November 11, 2015 by yupper

[Parasol_Syndicate]

On the one hand, I don't particularly want a rogue. 
On the other, getting anyone else's mechanics up to max is pretty painful. 

 

Are there any items which boost mechanics, other than the random-drop gloves? 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Parasol_Syndicate

[yupper]

On the one hand, I don't particularly want a rogue. 

On the other, getting anyone else's mechanics up to max is pretty painful. 

 

Are there any items which boost mechanics, other than the random-drop gloves? 

 

I've found scrolls for temp boost. But since I haven't found much use for skills (4 athletics is sufficient for every character), having one person invested in mechanics wasn't a big deal for me.

[Heijoushin]

Nothing is absolutely necessary. I also had a "wizard is absolutely necessary!" mentality, but then I tried an all warrior party, and it worked great! (in fact, it's nice not to have to sleep every two minutes to refresh spells)

 

As long as you use what you have efficiently, I'm sure you'll be fine. 

[yupper]

Nothing is absolutely necessary. I also had a "wizard is absolutely necessary!" mentality, but then I tried an all warrior party, and it worked great! (in fact, it's nice not to have to sleep every two minutes to refresh spells)

 

Hmm....at which difficulty level though? I guess if you have enough fighters you can CC by fanning them out against multiple opponents, but wouldn't you need at least a priest, chanter, or cipher to counter enemy CC? Otherwise I'd think you'd be reloading a lot in White March.

Edited November 12, 2015 by yupper

[Oralaina]

I don't honestly like rogues in this game.  And I'm not honestly thrilled with mages either....

 

I make a custom party:  looks like this (mostly -sometimes I have a bit different compo, but generally....)

 

PC Ranger

 

Custom party NPCs:

 

Barbarian

Paladin

Fighter

Druid

 

.... and a mage if I have to.....  but really - I usually have to, because I at least understand the mechanics.  Ciphers et al.... eh, no thanks - WAY too hinky for me.

[Heijoushin]

 

Nothing is absolutely necessary. I also had a "wizard is absolutely necessary!" mentality, but then I tried an all warrior party, and it worked great! (in fact, it's nice not to have to sleep every two minutes to refresh spells)

 

Hmm....at which difficulty level though? I guess if you have enough fighters you can CC by fanning them out against multiple opponents, but wouldn't you need at least a priest, chanter, or cipher to counter enemy CC? Otherwise I'd think you'd be reloading a lot in White March.

 

 

Admittedly, I do have a priest (My party is: fighter, paladin, rogue, barbarian, monk, priest) And admittedly, I haven't played PoTD so I can't speak for that.

 

But for the first time, I'm seeing the value of a barbarian. 20 str (Aumaua) + long range weapon (so he can hit from the second row and stay out of harm's way) and he really gets through the crowds!

Edited November 12, 2015 by Heijoushin

[yupper]

 

 

Nothing is absolutely necessary. I also had a "wizard is absolutely necessary!" mentality, but then I tried an all warrior party, and it worked great! (in fact, it's nice not to have to sleep every two minutes to refresh spells)

 

Hmm....at which difficulty level though? I guess if you have enough fighters you can CC by fanning them out against multiple opponents, but wouldn't you need at least a priest, chanter, or cipher to counter enemy CC? Otherwise I'd think you'd be reloading a lot in White March.

 

 

Admittedly, I do have a priest (My party is: fighter, paladin, rogue, barbarian, monk, priest) And admittedly, I haven't played PoTD so I can't speak for that.

 

But for the first time, I'm seeing the value of a barbarian. 20 str (Aumaua) + long range weapon (so he can hit from the second row and stay out of harm's way) and he really gets through the crowds!

 

 

Yeah barbarians are great. I've read many melee-rogue builds but I really have to wonder just who edges the other and comes out on top in an actual combat situation. Because rogues are so squishy, they need to be positioned properly for optimal effect, whereas barbarians can just rush up to the enemy and swing away. In the time required to position and sneak a melee rogue, the barbarian is already doing damage. I can also count on one hand the number of times I've met a boss opponent by his/her lonesome self, so the barbarian's area damage can be quite useful. I discontinued my barbarian playthrough to start a melee rogue, but while I like the rogue, I am finding the barbarian seems to be better at inflicting cumulative overall damage as the campaign progresses.

[KDubya]

 

Nothing is absolutely necessary. I also had a "wizard is absolutely necessary!" mentality, but then I tried an all warrior party, and it worked great! (in fact, it's nice not to have to sleep every two minutes to refresh spells)

 

Hmm....at which difficulty level though? I guess if you have enough fighters you can CC by fanning them out against multiple opponents, but wouldn't you need at least a priest, chanter, or cipher to counter enemy CC? Otherwise I'd think you'd be reloading a lot in White March.

 

 

On PotD my team in White March scaled up difficulty was PC Juggernaut Monk, Zahua (speced for Tidefall), Pellagrinna (Estocs), Devil of Caroc (Sabre and Shield), Kana (Pike) and Sagani (stormcaller). No mage, no priest, no problem. The monks and the paladin had good enough defenses to either avoid the enemy CC or be grazed but were tough enough to take the beating and then come back and win the fight. The best CC effect is death and the multi-monk team had a lot of damage output.

 

Except for Sagani everyone was in heavy armor so lots of DR and most had a pretty high con as well for a lot of endurance.

[PrimeJunta]

Rogues are completely optional. All they bring to the table is a couple of points higher Mechanics, which is purely convenience.

 

Wizards are also nice but optional. I've also played casterless parties (no priest, no wiz, no druid, no cipher) on PotD and it's perfectly doable; I just find it a bit tedious as fights tend to drag on since you have limited crowd control and almost no AoE damage.

 

(High-magic parties are more efficient if you're able to make use of the synergies though. I'm currently playing Wiz-Druid-Priest-Cipher-Fighter-Paladin and they make things pretty easy.)