DPS Paladin

[Boeroer]

I will give you my account number then.

[brindle88]

I will give you my account number then.

What do you think the most over powered build in the game I so wise one?

[Vorad]

 

I will give you my account number then.

What do you think the most over powered build in the game I so wise one?

 

wizard any kind of wizard

[Boeroer]

Hey - no need to get c0cky.

I didn't intend to hurt any feelings - just a little teasing.

 

All right.

 

Overall: definitely wizard at the moment. Best spell composition for any playstyle.

 

If we're talking about non-casters and melee: definitely monk. Even more since 2.02 because of his new skills (awesome!) and the fact that Lightning Strikes + Turning Wheel stack now.

 

Ranged: I would say ranger because of the improved pets, the new skills (great) and stormcaller. Before that it would have been rogue I guess. It's a pity that he only got this crappy smoke bomb.

 

And we're just talking about "solo" builds - without help from other chars.

 

'Cause like I mentioned in another thread: individual builds are not as effective as a whole "party build" where all characters use perfect synergy. In such a party individual power is not so important.

 

And we should define if this char should be measured regarding PvP or PvE. At the moment I'm thinking about PvE because there is no PvP in PoE.

 

You can get an impression what classes would be hard to fight in PvP when you go to Crägholt Bluffs and see which classes are the toughest one to beat. For me it was the monks (brawlers) and the fighters were also hard - but of course these nps - especially the warmages - weren't very special builds.

 

And that's just my opinion and I may be wrong. And my personal preferences how to play the game may also interfere with my objectivity. But I think I'm not too wrong.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Boeroer

[Ymarsakar]

Positioning doesn't affect your tactics unless something is FUBARED. Tactics are determined by the user, the strategic party composition, and various other longer term considerations. The selected tactic then determines positioning.

 

For people that think being 5 feet/meters away is the only way to position things... that's a limitation of their tactical thinking and their party composition, not a limitation of the paladin or stat distribution.

 

The Paladin is already a hybrid class. The fighter is good at doing one thing because... that's how it was designed, short and simple.

 

As for being flanked, two people fighting back to back can't easily be flanked. They're sort of stuck together. This either happens unintentionally or the user intended it to happen, but for people that don't fight that close, they can't see how it works. It's not something concrete for them, just abstract.

 

The fighter regens on its own, so it can be positioned on the battlefield wherever it is needed and it can hold a front. Very low micro. The paladin, however, has a range on lay of hands. What happens when the off tank and tank dps are so far from the paladin, that the paladin has to eat some 4 opportunity hits to get in range to heal the off tank, and then takes so much damage they go down? It would be better if the melee dps and tanks were close enough for the paladin aura and heals to reach already, which is a positioning that depends on the tactic which derived from what composition people decided to use in their party. The disadvantage of clumping together like that would be neglible in dungeons, since it is already crowded like that. In open field fights, the disadvantage of not being able to spread out like fighters to protect the entire backline can be mitigated by having 4-5 melee hitters in front, and only 1-2 backline dps that are very very far from the front (12m).

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[B4nJ0]

I honestly think that I'm one of the biggest lovers of the pally class since the 1st patch of the game, even when the class needed a lot of rework.

 

Let me say something: if you are gonna build a DPS paladin you are just doing something wrong.

 

fact: 

 

there are AMAZING melee DPS classes and off tanks that can achieve a lot of more damage.

 

fact:

 

a paladin with 20+ int 18+ might 18+ resolve 10 cos/10dex/10per is an utility GOD with the best saves AND best tanking in the game and you can achieve this stats and utility after 20 minuts in side quest running in act 2.

 

I'm too lazy to write a good guide about paladins, but I rly hate when people want to make the WORST damage dealer class in the game a dps one when it's so easy to min/max an amazing main char pally.

 

Also, I hate that people STILL SAY that Darcozzi paladin are the "best order" since the change to the per stats. Having CRUEL has a disfavored behavior is the worst thing ever couz you are losing attributes that you SHOULD NOT skip from a min/max pov plus you are gonna take inspiring liberation that it's, one again, a waste even in PoTD after 2.0 if you know how to build, gear and buff a 6 man party (so, overall, that's gonna be 3 talents wasted).

 

 

Oh, and I indeed did a run with a DPS hybrid gunner paladin, just for fun, so I think I know the topic quite well.

 

 

ps

 

fighters are WAY better at dealing dmg even has a main tank in a party. In fact with 6man parties you should dump int, just take defender+weapon and shield style and then take ALL dmg talents + retaliation to make them do almost 30% of the damage of a min maxed melee rogue. You are NEVER gonna achieve that with a pally, even if you try to off tank/"dps" while using a 2h weapon (and while losing ALL the amazing stuff you gain with 20+ int and all the utility items auras)

 

But maybe it's just me, I'm still quite addicted to this game since for some reason he reminds me a bit of Baldur's Gate 2 without the hardcore deep of the best mods that changed the game into a truly gaming single player nightmare experience. 

This game is easy, play how you wish, chees with bottle neck pulls and crush anything you will encounter :V

Edited October 30, 2015 by B4nJ0

[brindle88]

I honestly think that I'm one of the biggest lovers of the pally class since the 1st patch of the game, even when the class needed a lot of rework.

 

Let me say something: if you are gonna build a DPS paladin you are just doing something wrong.

 

fact: 

 

there are AMAZING melee DPS classes and off tanks that can achieve a lot of more damage.

 

fact:

 

a paladin with 20+ int 18+ might 18+ resolve 10 cos/10dex/10per is an utility GOD with the best saves AND best tanking in the game and you can achieve this stats and utility after 20 minuts in side quest running in act 2.

 

I'm too lazy to write a good guide about paladins, but I rly hate when people want to make the WORST damage dealer class in the game a dps one when it's so easy to min/max an amazing main char pally.

 

Also, I hate that people STILL SAY that Darcozzi paladin are the "best order" since the change to the per stats. Having CRUEL has a disfavored behavior is the worst thing ever couz you are losing attributes that you SHOULD NOT skip from a min/max pov plus you are gonna take inspiring liberation that it's, one again, a waste even in PoTD after 2.0 if you know how to build, gear and buff a 6 man party (so, overall, that's gonna be 3 talents wasted).

 

 

Oh, and I indeed did a run with a DPS hybrid gunner paladin, just for fun, so I think I know the topic quite well.

 

 

ps

 

fighters are WAY better at dealing dmg even has a main tank in a party. In fact with 6man parties you should dump int, just take defender+weapon and shield style and then take ALL dmg talents + retaliation to make them do almost 30% of the damage of a min maxed melee rogue. You are NEVER gonna achieve that with a pally, even if you try to off tank/"dps" while using a 2h weapon (and while losing ALL the amazing stuff you gain with 20+ int and all the utility items auras)

 

But maybe it's just me, I'm still quite addicted to this game since for some reason he reminds me a bit of Baldur's Gate 2 without the hardcore deep of the best mods that changed the game into a truly gaming single player nightmare experience. 

This game is easy, play how you wish, chees with bottle neck pulls and crush anything you will encounter :V

I can't believe these other posters where arguing with me that a paladin will deal more dps then a fighter. It was like having an argument with someone that they where trying to convince me the sky is pink not blue.

[KDubya]

I can't take anyone's opinion seriously who advocates taking Defender. It makes you easier to be hit. There is not a build out there for a Fighter that gets better when it gets hit.

 

Pretty much anything a Fighter can do, a Monk will do better. Give them the same equipment and the Monk will be faster and do more damage, plus have more health, better CC, longer knockdowns and AoE attacks, not to mention a twin summon that are absolute monsters.

 

Sacred Immolation hits a big area as hard as a two handed weapon, lasts for 30+ seconds and heals in the same huge area. This ability gained at level 13 will make your Paladin do more damage than your Fighter. At the same level 13 your Fighter can take Sundering Blows which does less damage than the first level Flames of Devotion that a Paladin gets. Your Fighter will always hit one target harder than your Paladin, but your Paladin will also be burning that one target plus anyone else in the area for damage equivalent to a two handed weapon.

 

Prior to getting Sacred Immolation a Paladin will bring much much more to the team than a Fighter possibly can. If people could change Eder's class to anything besides Fighter they would. If you want to help the team while being 'tanky' you get a Paladin or Chanter, if you want to do damage and be durable you'd make a Monk or a tanky shield Rogue. With the new AI you can't even claim less micro as a reason for going Fighter

 

The huge intellect Paladin you guy's are advocating has longer duration heals, longer duration buffs and bigger auras. No one is saying dump intellect but keeping it at base 10 is a viable build with tradeoffs.

 

Once your aura is big enough to cover what you want it to cover any extra intellect is wasted. You don't need to cover anyone who stays six meters away from the battle, have them come closer and the smaller aura can include them as well. Maybe you need to make something other than wood elves.

 

The buffs like reinforcing exhortation have a long duration at base, like 25 seconds or something. Increasing that to 40 seconds is nice but not needed.

 

Lay on hands heals for a huge amount over time, Given  a choice I'd rather have a high Might for more healing over a shorter period rather than less healing over a longer period.

 

I'm guessing that your paladin builds are hatchet & shield, 3 dex aura bots, maybe 3 perception as well. Sure enough that build can't damage or hit enemies. A Paladin with balanced stats using a two hander on PotD has good enough defenses, good enough heals and does good enough damage. My PotD Kind Wayfarer with Tidefall is leading my team with damage done and for biggest hit.

[brindle88]

I can't take anyone's opinion seriously who advocates taking Defender. It makes you easier to be hit. There is not a build out there for a Fighter that gets better when it gets hit.

 

Pretty much anything a Fighter can do, a Monk will do better. Give them the same equipment and the Monk will be faster and do more damage, plus have more health, better CC, longer knockdowns and AoE attacks, not to mention a twin summon that are absolute monsters.

 

Sacred Immolation hits a big area as hard as a two handed weapon, lasts for 30+ seconds and heals in the same huge area. This ability gained at level 13 will make your Paladin do more damage than your Fighter. At the same level 13 your Fighter can take Sundering Blows which does less damage than the first level Flames of Devotion that a Paladin gets. Your Fighter will always hit one target harder than your Paladin, but your Paladin will also be burning that one target plus anyone else in the area for damage equivalent to a two handed weapon.

 

Prior to getting Sacred Immolation a Paladin will bring much much more to the team than a Fighter possibly can. If people could change Eder's class to anything besides Fighter they would. If you want to help the team while being 'tanky' you get a Paladin or Chanter, if you want to do damage and be durable you'd make a Monk or a tanky shield Rogue. With the new AI you can't even claim less micro as a reason for going Fighter

 

The huge intellect Paladin you guy's are advocating has longer duration heals, longer duration buffs and bigger auras. No one is saying dump intellect but keeping it at base 10 is a viable build with tradeoffs.

 

Once your aura is big enough to cover what you want it to cover any extra intellect is wasted. You don't need to cover anyone who stays six meters away from the battle, have them come closer and the smaller aura can include them as well. Maybe you need to make something other than wood elves.

 

The buffs like reinforcing exhortation have a long duration at base, like 25 seconds or something. Increasing that to 40 seconds is nice but not needed.

 

Lay on hands heals for a huge amount over time, Given  a choice I'd rather have a high Might for more healing over a shorter period rather than less healing over a longer period.

 

I'm guessing that your paladin builds are hatchet & shield, 3 dex aura bots, maybe 3 perception as well. Sure enough that build can't damage or hit enemies. A Paladin with balanced stats using a two hander on PotD has good enough defenses, good enough heals and does good enough damage. My PotD Kind Wayfarer with Tidefall is leading my team with damage done and for biggest hit.

dude seriously, you obviously like paladins and so do I but a paladin does not do more dps then a fighter. Im not replying anymore to this post,

 

People if you are reading it, trust me, a paladin will not do more dps then a fighter

[KDubya]

 

I can't take anyone's opinion seriously who advocates taking Defender. It makes you easier to be hit. There is not a build out there for a Fighter that gets better when it gets hit.

 

Pretty much anything a Fighter can do, a Monk will do better. Give them the same equipment and the Monk will be faster and do more damage, plus have more health, better CC, longer knockdowns and AoE attacks, not to mention a twin summon that are absolute monsters.

 

Sacred Immolation hits a big area as hard as a two handed weapon, lasts for 30+ seconds and heals in the same huge area. This ability gained at level 13 will make your Paladin do more damage than your Fighter. At the same level 13 your Fighter can take Sundering Blows which does less damage than the first level Flames of Devotion that a Paladin gets. Your Fighter will always hit one target harder than your Paladin, but your Paladin will also be burning that one target plus anyone else in the area for damage equivalent to a two handed weapon.

 

Prior to getting Sacred Immolation a Paladin will bring much much more to the team than a Fighter possibly can. If people could change Eder's class to anything besides Fighter they would. If you want to help the team while being 'tanky' you get a Paladin or Chanter, if you want to do damage and be durable you'd make a Monk or a tanky shield Rogue. With the new AI you can't even claim less micro as a reason for going Fighter

 

The huge intellect Paladin you guy's are advocating has longer duration heals, longer duration buffs and bigger auras. No one is saying dump intellect but keeping it at base 10 is a viable build with tradeoffs.

 

Once your aura is big enough to cover what you want it to cover any extra intellect is wasted. You don't need to cover anyone who stays six meters away from the battle, have them come closer and the smaller aura can include them as well. Maybe you need to make something other than wood elves.

 

The buffs like reinforcing exhortation have a long duration at base, like 25 seconds or something. Increasing that to 40 seconds is nice but not needed.

 

Lay on hands heals for a huge amount over time, Given  a choice I'd rather have a high Might for more healing over a shorter period rather than less healing over a longer period.

 

I'm guessing that your paladin builds are hatchet & shield, 3 dex aura bots, maybe 3 perception as well. Sure enough that build can't damage or hit enemies. A Paladin with balanced stats using a two hander on PotD has good enough defenses, good enough heals and does good enough damage. My PotD Kind Wayfarer with Tidefall is leading my team with damage done and for biggest hit.

dude seriously, you obviously like paladins and so do I but a paladin does not do more dps then a fighter. Im not replying anymore to this post,

 

People if you are reading it, trust me, a paladin will not do more dps then a fighter

 

 

 

I take it that math and reading aren't strong points. One hit that is 50% stronger does less than one hit plus multiple hits in a big AoE.

[Boeroer]

Of course he will - but only if he uses Sacred Immolation and that comes quite late. Now if he doesn't have this ability a fighter will be a better damage dealer because of his damage bonuses.

And I think that nobody says that a paladin under lvl 13 does more DPS. But if he uses Sacred Immolation the fighter will certainly fall behind. I'm also not saying that a paladin is the best DPS guy out there - he surely isn't. But you can skill him for DPS and will have a very sturdy char that does solid and consistent damage at first - and on top of that you will have very useful on-kill effects that help the whole party. If you want to build around that (which can be very effective) than you have to build a dps paladin and not a supertanky one - no DPS, no kills, no on-kill effects. So you will have a very useful party member. He will do way more dps than a chanter and still support greatly with buffs, heals, auras and on-kill effects. After lvl 13 however his DPS and kills will improve immensely and his overall usefulness will go through the roof. I agree that lvl 13 is very late and you shouldn't rely just on that single ability when you plan your (dps) paladin. But you will always at least have a very solid frontliner that not only stays up and keeps hitting for OK damage but also buffs and heals all the time.

 

Until lvl 13 a fighter can be the better face-to-face DPS dealer and is also very sturdy - but he doesn't add anything else to the party. If you want exactly that: a sturdy DPS melee guy that doesn't have to do anything else than hitting enemies - then of course a fighter is a good choice. But saying a DPS paladin is bad overall because you simply reduce him to his +damage abilities is just ignorant. And saying that you HATE it that people do something different in this game than you (and they think it's good) is not only ignorant but generally a questionable attitude. Why would you hate that? It's ok when we don't agree and also bearable that we seem to constantly talk past each other. Screaming HATE is not.

[aweigh0101]

tldr paladin op

[Boeroer]

Nobody said that. Just that building a DPS paladin is not stupid.

[Vorad]

The funny part is you can build defensive paladin(drop dex, per) but max might(for stronger lay on hands + sacred immolation) + full plate + max resolve and he will be able to dish out reasonable amounts of AOE while being turtle specc add in there moon goodlike racial and he gets double benefit!

[Boeroer]

But if you drop PER your Immolation will miss or graze a lot. Same when you use medium or great shields. It's better not to dump per and use small shields like outworn buckler. That way your accuracy is not crippled and you will do way more damage with Sacred Immolation.

 

But always remember that you get this at lvl 13 - when most of the game is over. Till then you will be just a supportive turtle.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Boeroer

[FlintlockJazz]

I went with a 2-hander paladin Wayfarer that has 16 might, 16 resolve and something like 12 con, 12 intellience, the rest were left at 10.  Probably not very optimised but he does well I think, does decent damage and reliably while still being defensive.  Only level 4 so far (don't get much chance to play him at the mo), so can't say he will be able to keep up but I did it more for roleplay reasons anyway.

[AndreaColombo]

^ tbh, the game's forgiving enough that any build can take on PotD in a party of six. I'm sure your pally will do well.

[KDubya]

I went with a 2-hander paladin Wayfarer that has 16 might, 16 resolve and something like 12 con, 12 intellience, the rest were left at 10.  Probably not very optimised but he does well I think, does decent damage and reliably while still being defensive.  Only level 4 so far (don't get much chance to play him at the mo), so can't say he will be able to keep up but I did it more for roleplay reasons anyway.

 

That's pretty close to the Kind Wayfarer I've got on PotD, I think I went with 18 Might, 15 perception and 15 resolve with everything else at 10. Also went with two handed swords and arquebus. He is a blast to play, durable hard hitting, a little slow but still leads the team in damage. Getting Sacred Immolation is a big power increase, having my guy and Pellagrina running two auras, four LoH, four reinforcing exhortations and two Sacred Immolations is just awesome.

 

It's a really really fun character and darn effective as well. Great roleplay as well with staying benevolent/passionate and avoiding any dishonest or cruel, especially with the labels all turned off.

[Boeroer]

I have nearly the same front line setup at the moment: two semi DPS/tank paladins with sacred immolation. I just added a chanter with the slah/fire hazard chant. Just chilling around, sipping a beer and burning everthing around. For the fat bosses I have two ranged rangers and a lazy cipher. Just awesome! Only stupid thing: I didn't take Wayfarer - now I'm sad that I have only Inspiring Triumph in kill.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Boeroer

[aweigh0101]

Having two paladins alpha-striking with FoD Arquebus shots then switching to melee is amazing. The ACC bonus on FoD makes the opening salvo devastating and should pretty much kill most regular enemies triggering Inspiring Triumph right at the start of combat. It's a really good setup. Paladins are really versatile.

You can also use Arbalests instead of the Arquebus for the Flames of Devotion alpha-strike, and again due to the crazy ACC bonus on FoD the Arbalest volley will probably prone the enemy.

[Boeroer]

Yes - my paldins are not only walking torches, but also island aumauas with quick switch and arbalests.

 

Also note that when you fire your first FoD shot from stealth outside of combat, you will have 3 FoD uses since the engine will reset the uses to 2 after combat starts. So that's sneak - fire FoD shot - encounter starts - you still have 2 uses of FoD. A fourth weapon set is good on one of the paladins in this case. I use an arbalest first because of the range, then two arquebuses and then I switch to shame & glory + outworn buckler. All casters should be dead by now. The other pally just shoots two times and then switches to marking Cladhaliath.

 

Another funny effect of two pallies with two marking weapons in the front line, combined with Coordinated Attacks, is: they give each other +20 acc when they attack the same target - and that also applies to their sacred immolation. That means that even hard to hit enemies will get burned away if you concentrate on them.

[MarekKail]

Ignore

 

But the "Ignore" ni the wrong location. One of those "Even if I'm right, I'm still wrong to post" so Deleted.

 

Switching back to topic.  Even in POTD would a fairly Balanced Paladin still be fine as a frontline?

 

Something like

 

STR 15

CON 10

DEX 10

PER 14

INT 15

RES 14

 

Or am I gimping it too far for either a DPS or a TANK?

Edited January 9, 2016 by MarekKail

[Torm51]

 

Ignore

 

But the "Ignore" ni the wrong location. One of those "Even if I'm right, I'm still wrong to post" so Deleted.

 

Switching back to topic.  Even in POTD would a fairly Balanced Paladin still be fine as a frontline?

 

Something like

 

STR 15

CON 10

DEX 10

PER 14

INT 15

RES 14

 

Or am I gimping it too far for either a DPS or a TANK?

 

All a Paladin can be as far as damage dealing is a n Alpha Striker.  You wear plate, use a 2hander and your DEX is average.  You are a durable frontliner that can gib something with FoD.  Once again I love the Paladin and love this SPECIFICALLY about the Paladin but you aren't going to get rogue/monk type DPS results.  Ever.  Its not what the class does.

 

You will tank very well with that build.  If you grab Flames of Devotion your alpha strike will be really good too.

[Boeroer]

I also think these are good stats for a paladin. Your defenses will be balanced, that's good. If you take Weapon & Shield Style your reflex will be a bit higher than the rest. If you want to use Zealous Focus you could afford to lower PER to 10 and put 4 points them into CON and/or MIG. Then you will have perfectly balanced defenses. But that's just cosmetic changes I'd say. 

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah, there is no dps paladin.

Not compared to other classes, at least.