Republican Presidential Debate

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Bruce, I don't give a **** what you think. You're a rich guy who works in banking and I'm a working class guy working my way through college. Our material interests are completely different and as someone who does not benefit from the economic system in place nor is hindered by false morality, I have no stake in preserving the prevailing system that is relying on increasingly authoritarian measures(such as CISA and TPP/whatever the europoor version is) to keep itself afloat that affect me in highly negative manners. You're not going to convince me to follow your worldview because I've heard it all before and you're terrible at arguing for anything. Just deal with it or gtfo.

 

I will now go back to posting Sanders memes that will trigger conservacucks and lolbertarians.

 

[Hurlshort]

Why is Bill Gates deceased?

 

But yeah, corporations are out of control right now.  They run the government.

[BruceVC]

Bruce, I don't give a **** what you think. You're a rich guy who works in banking and I'm a working class guy working my way through college. Our material interests are completely different and as someone who does not benefit from the economic system in place nor is hindered by false morality, I have no stake in preserving the prevailing system that is relying on increasingly authoritarian measures(such as CISA and TPP/whatever the europoor version is) to keep itself afloat that affect me in highly negative manners. You're not going to convince me to follow your worldview because I've heard it all before and you're terrible at arguing for anything. Just deal with it or gtfo.

 

I will now go back to posting Sanders memes that will trigger conservacucks and lolbertarians.

 

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty

 

But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously 

 

But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds

 

I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis

 

And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? 

 

Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you 

[Meshugger]

 

Bruce, I don't give a **** what you think. You're a rich guy who works in banking and I'm a working class guy working my way through college. Our material interests are completely different and as someone who does not benefit from the economic system in place nor is hindered by false morality, I have no stake in preserving the prevailing system that is relying on increasingly authoritarian measures(such as CISA and TPP/whatever the europoor version is) to keep itself afloat that affect me in highly negative manners. You're not going to convince me to follow your worldview because I've heard it all before and you're terrible at arguing for anything. Just deal with it or gtfo.

 

I will now go back to posting Sanders memes that will trigger conservacucks and lolbertarians.

 

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty

 

But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously 

 

But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds

 

I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis

 

And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? 

 

Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you 

 

 

Updated my Bruce.txt

 

//Edit: Not many bankers were jailed for their involvement in the 2008 crisis, just saying.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

This might actually happen and no one will care:

 

[Hurlshort]

I don't get it.  Why are Walt White from Breaking Bad and blue haired Roger Ebert behind the fence?

[Amentep]

I don't get it.  Why are Walt White from Breaking Bad and blue haired Roger Ebert behind the fence?

Why is Bill Gates deceased?

Connected?

[Meshugger]

I don't get it.  Why are Walt White from Breaking Bad and blue haired Roger Ebert behind the fence?

 

See? Nobody cares!

[BruceVC]

 

 

Bruce, I don't give a **** what you think. You're a rich guy who works in banking and I'm a working class guy working my way through college. Our material interests are completely different and as someone who does not benefit from the economic system in place nor is hindered by false morality, I have no stake in preserving the prevailing system that is relying on increasingly authoritarian measures(such as CISA and TPP/whatever the europoor version is) to keep itself afloat that affect me in highly negative manners. You're not going to convince me to follow your worldview because I've heard it all before and you're terrible at arguing for anything. Just deal with it or gtfo.

 

I will now go back to posting Sanders memes that will trigger conservacucks and lolbertarians.

 

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty

 

But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously 

 

But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds

 

I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis

 

And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? 

 

Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you 

 

 

Updated my Bruce.txt

 

We feel  as a family that inside trading and irregular trading is a choice ...you can be a banker without breaking the law.In fact its a moral imperative that we distance ourselves from it because of all the bad decisions bankers have made since 1995 and the collapse of Barings Bank

My grandfather, not the original founder, is old school like that ...he set a very important value system. He is now 92 and still alive but he has Alzheimers. He was with us at Xmas ..he has moments of clarity and he tells me things about shares and investment avenues, he remembers  WW2 and he really has had a great life 

 

Anyway in summary my Dads cousin, who is also called Bruce, use to really annoy me when he lived in SA

 

He was one of those typical traders who constantly felt the need to be overly generous...he would tip 1000 % in a restaurant and insisted on always paying. He drove a Ferrari and would always tease me when he saw me about " how could I not get into finance ( I work with financial software )  and I would never make the money he could make for me ". The guy wasn't malicious but just very, very brilliant at his job..but also arrogant

 

Anyway when he was arrested in the USA my grandfather was unequivocal...we don't support what he did, we love him but he is on his own 

[BruceVC]

 

 

Bruce, I don't give a **** what you think. You're a rich guy who works in banking and I'm a working class guy working my way through college. Our material interests are completely different and as someone who does not benefit from the economic system in place nor is hindered by false morality, I have no stake in preserving the prevailing system that is relying on increasingly authoritarian measures(such as CISA and TPP/whatever the europoor version is) to keep itself afloat that affect me in highly negative manners. You're not going to convince me to follow your worldview because I've heard it all before and you're terrible at arguing for anything. Just deal with it or gtfo.

 

I will now go back to posting Sanders memes that will trigger conservacucks and lolbertarians.

 

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty

 

But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously 

 

But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds

 

I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis

 

And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? 

 

Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you 

 

 

Updated my Bruce.txt

 

//Edit: Not many bankers were jailed for their involvement in the 2008 crisis, just saying.

 

Yes it wasn't because of 2008 specifically, it was things that went on before that but 2008 was a build-up of events that probably took about 5-6 years of bad banking decisions by many people in the industry

[Hurlshort]

I thought this was a fun look back.

 

 

Man, the Republican party has changed.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

I'm kind of worried about Sanders leading Hilzilla. Not because of Socialism, because that's unlikely to pass Congress anyway, but because he seems to have no interest in foreign policy at all.

 

Actually I'd say the hints are pretty big that he will be an isolationist, which puts him in a very similar camp as Trump.

 

I don't think Trump is an isolationist, he just doesn't believe war is the first solution to everything. I'd say Trump has a very good understanding of foreign policy, while Sanders has none.

 

 

I thought this was a fun look back.

 

 

Man, the Republican party has changed.

Your video says 1990, but it's actually 1980. And how has Republican party changed? 36 years and 36 million illegal aliens later Jebbito is still spewing exact same garbage as his daddy. What's changed is that Republicans would have almost no chance of winning the presidency now except for the truly amazing roster of miscreants on the Democrat side. And yes, Reagan did implement amnesty, and we were promised that in return the illegal immigration issue would be solved, lol. Once bitten, twice shy.

[Guard Dog]

 And yes, Reagan did implement amnesty, and we were promised that in return the illegal immigration issue would be solved, lol. Once bitten, twice shy.

 

Excellent point.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Btw, the Democrat party has changed too :

[Guard Dog]

Let me tell you a dirty little secret about career politicians. They don't believe in anything. They believe in what they think voters want to hear. Last week the Republicans sent a bill to repeal the ACA (Obamacare) to the President who, of course, vetoed it. Now bear in mind this is the ACA that THEY fully funded last month in the Omnibus Spending Bill. Had they actually wanted to kill this thing, that was their opportunity right there. Why did they do this? Because the republican voters are at their gates with torches and pitchforks and they were hoping a stupid, futile and useless gesture like that will mollify the peasants. No one in DC gives a damn about illegal immigration. They don't live on the border. They will never be the victim of a crime committed by an illegal that has been caught and released several times. The only reason it is ever brought up is because it inflames passions on both the right and the left. Passions can be fanned into votes. It may seem cynical but nothing ever said by a career politician is ever genuine. All of it is calculated. The only truthful thing Jeb Bush said in the last debate was "I'm Jeb Bush and I want your vote".

 

There are two other types of fish to be found in the political sea. Ideologues like Barack Obama. They are scary because the first type I mentioned while despicable people, are predictable. Self preservation keeps them in check. Ideologues believe they are right, they are RIGHT dammit. They are smarter than you and better than you so it is only right they tell you what to do. (This is what Hayek called "the fatal conceit"). They don't care how their will gets done or who it hurts.  I think BO is ready to leave office and he'd probably like to give us all the middle finger as he does because we put up so much resistance against him. How dare we!

 

The last kind are the ones with an axe to grind. Ron Paul, Donald Trump, Ben Carson, etc. Some of these are ok, some are not. Depends on the axe.

[evilcat]

"Illegal Alliens" damm Independence Day wasnt enought. They should not cut the Man in Black funds. Vote Will Smith.

Edited January 14, 2016 by evilcat

[Meshugger]

Yeah, **** borders, laws and ****. They're just lines and letters on papers maaan.

[Hurlshort]

In response to the 1980 video I posted with Bush and Reagan, I see it as a failure by the government of both countries.  Sure, it's easy to blame the immigrants sneaking across the border in search for a better life.  They are an easy target, they can't really defend themselves while working minimum wage jobs and avoiding INS.  

 

But really, there has been a huge failure between the US and Mexican governments.  The US is supposed to be 'the most stable economy in the world'.  Why the heck do we share a gigantic border, and yet we can't find a way to help Mexico become a fully developed nation?  

 

I read a good article awhile back about how devastating the growth of China's economy has been to Mexico.  Basically all the major corporations that were starting to build in Mexico ditched those plans and went to Asia.  But hey, corporations gonna corporate.  

[Barothmuk]

But really, there has been a huge failure between the US and Mexican governments.  The US is supposed to be 'the most stable economy in the world'.  Why the heck do we share a gigantic border, and yet we can't find a way to help Mexico become a fully developed nation?

Better to **** them over with unequal trade agreements.

[Hurlshort]

Maybe we need a grassroots campaign with commercials where people show a MADE IN MEXICO label like they did for USA made products awhile back.  

 

I get that there are a lot of economic issues here, and many of them stem from corruption issues within Mexico.  But the healthiest way for everyone to put an end to illegal immigration from Mexico would be for Mexico to develop a strong economy.  

[Namutree]

Maybe we need a grassroots campaign with commercials where people show a MADE IN MEXICO label like they did for USA made products awhile back.  

 

I get that there are a lot of economic issues here, and many of them stem from corruption issues within Mexico.  But the healthiest way for everyone to put an end to illegal immigration from Mexico would be for Mexico to develop a strong economy.  

Ending the drug war would help too. No drug war, less demand for foreign suppliers; which means less money to be made smuggling drugs into the US. With less capital, the criminal cartels can't smuggle as many people into the country and they would have less reason to do so anyway. This would also lessen the worst elements of those immigrating here illegally. 

 

EDIT: This would also help Mexico as the criminal cartels would become much less powerful over time as one of their primary sources of income would be crippled.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Namutree

[Meshugger]

I just realized that the Iowa Caucus is about two weeks away. The circus is about to get started and we need the Sanders vs. Trump memes more than ever.

 

MOAR

[Hurlshort]

 

Maybe we need a grassroots campaign with commercials where people show a MADE IN MEXICO label like they did for USA made products awhile back.  

 

I get that there are a lot of economic issues here, and many of them stem from corruption issues within Mexico.  But the healthiest way for everyone to put an end to illegal immigration from Mexico would be for Mexico to develop a strong economy.  

Ending the drug war would help too. No drug war, less demand for foreign suppliers; which means less money to be made smuggling drugs into the US. With less capital, the criminal cartels can't smuggle as many people into the country and they would have less reason to do so anyway. This would also lessen the worst elements of those immigrating here illegally. 

 

EDIT: This would also help Mexico as the criminal cartels would become much less powerful over time as one of their primary sources of income would be crippled.

 

 

Agreed.  I'm pretty frustrated by the lack of progress in Mexico, both economically and in regards to organized crime.  I have a fair amount of family back there, and it is pretty bleak right now.  I think most expected it to get worse before it got better as the government seriously went after the cartels, but we are nearing a decade and the gains don't seem to be outpacing the losses.

[Rostere]

Let me tell you a dirty little secret about career politicians. They don't believe in anything. They believe in what they think voters want to hear. Last week the Republicans sent a bill to repeal the ACA (Obamacare) to the President who, of course, vetoed it. Now bear in mind this is the ACA that THEY fully funded last month in the Omnibus Spending Bill. Had they actually wanted to kill this thing, that was their opportunity right there. Why did they do this? Because the republican voters are at their gates with torches and pitchforks and they were hoping a stupid, futile and useless gesture like that will mollify the peasants. No one in DC gives a damn about illegal immigration. They don't live on the border. They will never be the victim of a crime committed by an illegal that has been caught and released several times. The only reason it is ever brought up is because it inflames passions on both the right and the left. Passions can be fanned into votes. It may seem cynical but nothing ever said by a career politician is ever genuine. All of it is calculated. The only truthful thing Jeb Bush said in the last debate was "I'm Jeb Bush and I want your vote".

 

This seems to describe Jeb and Hillary well enough, yes.

 

Of course they were forced to pass the Omnibus Spending Bill, the alternative would be a government shutdown. History has shown that Republicans fare worse if they use that tool. The truth is that the American political system is absurd and requires some level of civil understanding between the congressional majorities and the President in order for things to work at all. Absent this, you will get anarchy. And I can imagine only very few actually want that, and most of those who do want it live in Russia and China.

 

I would really like to see President Cruz facing constant government shutdowns. That would be absolutely hilarious and highlight the hypocrisy of the politicians and absurdity of the system. The fact that Obama has taken rule by executive order one step further than Bush is already very funny, of course.

 

 

There are two other types of fish to be found in the political sea. Ideologues like Barack Obama. They are scary because the first type I mentioned while despicable people, are predictable. Self preservation keeps them in check. Ideologues believe they are right, they are RIGHT dammit. They are smarter than you and better than you so it is only right they tell you what to do. (This is what Hayek called "the fatal conceit"). They don't care how their will gets done or who it hurts.  I think BO is ready to leave office and he'd probably like to give us all the middle finger as he does because we put up so much resistance against him. How dare we!

 

The last kind are the ones with an axe to grind. Ron Paul, Donald Trump, Ben Carson, etc. Some of these are ok, some are not. Depends on the axe.

 

But it seems to me a bit bigoted to call out Obama specifically here. An ideologue is a person who makes political decisions from a formulated and coherent ideology, as opposed to ad-hoc decisions made from sentiment or reasons of popularity. So what are you and Ron Paul if not ideologues of the Libertarian variant? How would you have acted if you were president?

 

IMO all politicians should be ideologues and nothing else. It would be so much easier to vote then.

[Meshugger]

I think politicians should be philosopher kings. But then again, no one would be able to elected since there aren't anyone of that calibre in politics at the moment.