Fighter Balance Mod for 2.01

[dherve10]

In answer to some of the worries about fighters, I've tweaked a few of their abilities in a small mod I cooked up. The tweaks are really just to highlight the fighters role/unique traits and also mitigate the overnerf to Defender. The changes are as follows:

 

1) Clear out was made per encounter to emphasize the cc role of fighters on the battlefield

 

2) Rapid Recovery was bumped up to a base 3 additional recovery (I would have preferred to just make constant recovery scale to be 1 more base every at 4, 7, and 10 like the monk's transcendent suffering, but this is a bit trickier)

 

3) Wary Defender now gives +5 to all defenses (including deflection) to mitigate the malus from Defender.

 

mediafire

nexusmods

[dukefx]

Balance according to you.

[gkathellar]

Nice. Much obliged, dherve. Anything that makes Rapid Recovery actually worth taking is good in my book.

 

Balance according to you.

Yes, that's how these things work.

[curryinahurry]

In answer to some of the worries about fighters, I've tweaked a few of their abilities in a small mod I cooked up. The tweaks are really just to highlight the fighters role/unique traits and also mitigate the overnerf to Defender. The changes are as follows:

 

1) Clear out was made per encounter to emphasize the cc role of fighters on the battlefield

 

2) Rapid Recovery was bumped up to a base 3 additional recovery (I would have preferred to just make constant recovery scale to be 1 more base every at 4, 7, and 10 like the monk's transcendent suffering, but this is a bit trickier)

 

3) Wary Defender now gives +5 to all defenses (including deflection) to mitigate the malus from Defender.

 

mediafire

nexusmods

 

That's a nice start...not to be pushy, but i was wondering if there was any way to add a bonus to Fghters as a class of 15% and an additional 15% for Wary Defender.  That would really get the Fighter class concept back in place to what the changes in Defender/ Wary Defender were to reflect in post 2.0.

 

I would definitely try that mod out.

[View619]

Smart mod idea that doesn't over-tune any of the stated abilities. I'll be sure to take a look at it.

[hilfazer]

 

3) Wary Defender now gives +5 to all defenses (including deflection) to mitigate the malus from Defender.

 

 

Smart move by Obsidian.

Bring (Wary) Defender deflection down to, not 5, not 0, but -5.

It will make players rage. It will make players want (Wary) Defender give more deflection.

Now, if (Wary) Defender deflection bonus was changed from -5 to 0 players would be satisfied.

 

 

I don't know if Obs is actually planning to raise (Wary) Defender's deflection like this, but that would probably tame the community.

[dherve10]

 

In answer to some of the worries about fighters, I've tweaked a few of their abilities in a small mod I cooked up. The tweaks are really just to highlight the fighters role/unique traits and also mitigate the overnerf to Defender. The changes are as follows:

 

1) Clear out was made per encounter to emphasize the cc role of fighters on the battlefield

 

2) Rapid Recovery was bumped up to a base 3 additional recovery (I would have preferred to just make constant recovery scale to be 1 more base every at 4, 7, and 10 like the monk's transcendent suffering, but this is a bit trickier)

 

3) Wary Defender now gives +5 to all defenses (including deflection) to mitigate the malus from Defender.

 

mediafire

nexusmods

 

That's a nice start...not to be pushy, but i was wondering if there was any way to add a bonus to Fghters as a class of 15% and an additional 15% for Wary Defender.  That would really get the Fighter class concept back in place to what the changes in Defender/ Wary Defender were to reflect in post 2.0.

 

I would definitely try that mod out.

 

I'm sorry, but what stat are you looking to be boosted by 15%? Deflection?

[Killyox]

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

[curryinahurry]

Oh sorry,  my poor typing and thinking skills.  I meant, is there a way to add a class bonus of 15% additional damage on disengagement attacks to the class and 15% more (for a total of 30%) with Wary Defender.  This was a part of the discussion in the Role of the Fighter thread and it would really help put some teeth back into what the Class was set up to do.

[Mechalibur]

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

They're usable, sure, but it's safe to say that they aren't performing as well as other frontliners.

[curryinahurry]

 

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

They're usable, sure, but it's safe to say that they aren't performing as well as other frontliners.

 

 

I've written this about a half dozen times, but it's not even that fighters are lagging behind other frontliners, it's that fighters aren't really doing what they conceived to be doing; playing the role of lockdown defender as a take on the D&D 4 class they are modeled after.  A lot of this comes from the fact that AI is now working closer to the way Obsidian originally imagined, but Disengagement was nerfed into being fairly trivial.  If they put some teeth back into disengagement attacks, fighters become a much more viable option.

 

Also, on a separate note about balance, anyone who is playing a higher level party right now and doesn't think that casters and martial classes are now completely out of balance probably doesn't care about anything but spell casting.  It's a bit of a mess right now, and needs to be addressed

[dherve10]

Oh sorry,  my poor typing and thinking skills.  I meant, is there a way to add a class bonus of 15% additional damage on disengagement attacks to the class and 15% more (for a total of 30%) with Wary Defender.  This was a part of the discussion in the Role of the Fighter thread and it would really help put some teeth back into what the Class was set up to do.

Unfortunately, I've been modding using the PoEAssetEditor utility, and it isn't currently recompiling the files correctly. As such, I've been using a hex editor to change minor values in existing files, but adding new attributes for existing abilities or new talents/abilities is currently out of the scope of what I can accomplish.

[curryinahurry]

^  Cool, thanks anyway!  Hopefully these mods will bring some attention to the issue and Obsidian can look at the problem and come up with an official solution soon.

[Dongom]

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

 

aka letting the AI take over the lolFighter and take personal control of your Caster.

 

 Or not taking a Fighter in your party at all, that's an even better method of playing a Fighter.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Dongom

[curryinahurry]

Also,I've been wondering why fighters, especially with the focus on engagement, don't have an ability like Cleave or Great Cleave.  Even if there was only one such feat (like great cleave) available at a higher level, it would make the engagement options for a fighter much more appealing.

[gkathellar]

Also,I've been wondering why fighters, especially with the focus on engagement, don't have an ability like Cleave or Great Cleave.  Even if there was only one such feat (like great cleave) available at a higher level, it would make the engagement options for a fighter much more appealing.

 

It would tread on the barbarian's toes.

 

Really, fighter and paladin both need a rework, I think in some ways to bring them in line with barbarian (which also probably needs a lesser rework). All three feel as though they want to be about controlling the space surrounding them, but only barbarian sort of accomplishes this by controlling the space with damage.

[curryinahurry]

^ I see what you mean, but at a I think the classes play different enough that there can be abilities like this, especially as the fighter ability is tied to engagement and can be bracketed that way(cleave applies only to enemies engaged by fighter, not aoe).  Truth is, it's very hard to have the 5 martial classes play all that distinctly from one another, and Obsidian has done a decent job of drawing lines even if there is a bit of fuzziness between certain classes.

[gkathellar]

I agree in general, although I feel like the whole "lock-down-enemies-via-disengagement" thing has some inherent contradictions. In particular, you get this binary scenario with respect to enemy AI, where either (a) enemies are willing to break disengagement to go after squishies, in which case disengagement attacks end up being functionally equivalent to bonus attacks at the beginning of combat, or (b) enemies are unwilling to break disengagement, in which case you can forget about disengagement attacks entirely.

 

I do think building fighters around reaction abilities would be doable, if one wanted to do that. I contend that a fighter that revolved around pushes, pulls, punishments (i.e. hitting enemies in response to a greater variety of actions), reactive debuffs, and stuns could be designed to work as both a frontliner and a ranged supporter. But right now, we don't have that.

[Killyox]

 

 

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

They're usable, sure, but it's safe to say that they aren't performing as well as other frontliners.

 

 

I've written this about a half dozen times, but it's not even that fighters are lagging behind other frontliners, it's that fighters aren't really doing what they conceived to be doing; playing the role of lockdown defender as a take on the D&D 4 class they are modeled after.  A lot of this comes from the fact that AI is now working closer to the way Obsidian originally imagined, but Disengagement was nerfed into being fairly trivial.  If they put some teeth back into disengagement attacks, fighters become a much more viable option.

 

Also, on a separate note about balance, anyone who is playing a higher level party right now and doesn't think that casters and martial classes are now completely out of balance probably doesn't care about anything but spell casting.  It's a bit of a mess right now, and needs to be addressed

 

You can grant spellcasting to fighters through lore and then you got tough as nail casters.

[Killyox]

 

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

 

aka letting the AI take over the lolFighter and take personal control of your Caster.

 

 Or not taking a Fighter in your party at all, that's an even better method of playing a Fighter.

 

I stand by what I said. Sarcasm has no merit.

[curryinahurry]

 

 

 

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

They're usable, sure, but it's safe to say that they aren't performing as well as other frontliners.

 

 

I've written this about a half dozen times, but it's not even that fighters are lagging behind other frontliners, it's that fighters aren't really doing what they conceived to be doing; playing the role of lockdown defender as a take on the D&D 4 class they are modeled after.  A lot of this comes from the fact that AI is now working closer to the way Obsidian originally imagined, but Disengagement was nerfed into being fairly trivial.  If they put some teeth back into disengagement attacks, fighters become a much more viable option.

 

Also, on a separate note about balance, anyone who is playing a higher level party right now and doesn't think that casters and martial classes are now completely out of balance probably doesn't care about anything but spell casting.  It's a bit of a mess right now, and needs to be addressed

 

You can grant spellcasting to fighters through lore and then you got tough as nail casters.

 

 

While an interesting point, that I and others are very well aware of, it seems to completely miss the point of my post...and this thread

[View619]

 

 

They are balanced. Simply some people can't play them.

 

aka letting the AI take over the lolFighter and take personal control of your Caster.

 

 Or not taking a Fighter in your party at all, that's an even better method of playing a Fighter.

 

I stand by what I said. Sarcasm has no merit.

 

 

Saying that they're balanced without giving reasons is meaningless, though. Also, stating that "simply some people can't play them" just seems like a cop-out so you don't need to explain yourself.

 

Edit:

 

Can we not have this same argument in every thread that involves Fighters? Let's keep it on track and focus on the mod that the OP made, take the discussion back to the "Role of the Fighter" thread.

Edited September 15, 2015 by View619

[dherve10]

So I'm considering boosting the effectiveness of constant recovery to base of 6 regen in order to make it comparable to paladin's lay on hands in terms of healing. The problem is that this would balance it for late game play, making it quite strong in the early game. I would like to make it scale up to base 6, but I currently do not know how to add new abilities to the game. What do others think?

 

P.S. This is not an invitation for the "fighters are fine" crowd to repeat themselves.

[Killyox]

They work great on potd. I have a feeling people mix up fun with balanced and a lot of utility with balance.

 

Warriors are sturdy and damaging. They have useful skills like pull, knockdown, self revive and good passives.

 

They are the least interesting but they aren't bad or weak.

 

Anyways, off I am as to not derail this thread.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Killyox

[View619]

So I'm considering boosting the effectiveness of constant recovery to base of 6 regen in order to make it comparable to paladin's lay on hands in terms of healing. The problem is that this would balance it for late game play, making it quite strong in the early game. I would like to make it scale up to base 6, but I currently do not know how to add new abilities to the game. What do others think?

 

P.S. This is not an invitation for the "fighters are fine" crowd to repeat themselves.

 

Anyway to add a formula so that Constant Recovery heals a percentage of max endurance instead? That would keep it useful throughout the entire game without being too strong early on.