Full Defenseive tanks and their worth.

[Torm51]

So my experience has been that a lot of the times the AI is better then in other games as there is no taunt and in melee they WILL melee the softer dps target.  Archers will shoot at the backline not your tank.  Now yes that's why I use choke points so the AI has no choice but to attack my defensive characters but I think its a crutch for making a defensive character useful...maybe I am wrong.  When you do make a mistake though and they get in your back line the tanks become not very useful (well my Paladin is cause I turn on Zealous Charge and reposition the battlefield) but still it isn't preferable lol.

 

  So I usually make these tanks that are just beasts defensively but are not worth a lick offensively.  I was thinking why not just have the tank be good offensively and an OK tank.  The bosses that really matter will pretty much own even a well speced tank now that Deflection has been nerfed and they must be cced...if its even possible I know there are immunities now. 

 

What are your opinions?

Edited August 24, 2015 by Torm51

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah, hybrids will be better now, not even necessarily offs but you could also build support tanks.

[gkathellar]

"Full" defensive tanks were never very good. That said, all a tank ever needed to provide some supplementary damage output was a 10+ might and dexterity, a saber or mace, and a couple of offensive talents. It's not like being a tank ever ate up all of your talents.

[drunetovich]

I make full party of tanks, then there is no soft targets for AI, it is doomed to fall.

[curryinahurry]

You can build Fighters to be either very effective at fully defensive, balanced or DPS oriented in this game.  I think the changes in AI are part of the obsidian desire to de-emphasize attributes in favor of talents and abilities (no bad builds) and also to try to de-incentivize min/maxing.  

 

I've been playing through the game very slowly, just to my time constraints but I have 2 fighters in my party, Eder and my PC.  I have Eder built as a tank but have given him certain  talents like confident aim and potion of eldritch aim, etc.  Combined with Paladin auras, etc.  Eder does a pretty decent amount of damge, and can hold 4 baddies in engagement.  My DPS/ off-tank does most of the damage in the party and with auras, etc.  I can have his accuracy up over 90 at 8th level. Combined with 'merciless' effects, the character crits very regularly.  He can also hold 2 in engagement, raising the total to 6.  Add in Pallegina/a paladin/ monk with hold the line, and your engagement level is up to 8.  That will get you trhough most fights and with characters that will actually do some damage.

 

The key element that many don't consider in this game is the dual health system.  The game is designed around attrition over an adventuring day and health should be the limiter.  Building defensive only tanks in this kind of system is counter logical as it takes at least one of your team out of the damage pool and leads to spells becoming the limiter for the adventuring day.

[Torm51]

Sounds good.  This is my main tank at level 5.  Obviously he leaves much to be desired offensively but hes only level 5 so how would you guys make him a bit more viable in the damage department.  I am trying not to dump stats...I just cant seem to find the points for PER and accuracy.  and I figure he is a tank PER is probably not the stat I am looking for.

 

Mig 10

 

Con 14 (extra hp for the nerf in deflection maybe I don't need it Also I need some type of Fort Defense)

 

Dex 10

 

Per 10

 

Int 15 (minimum for auras.  with my boots and int items I can reach my backline with Auras)

 

Res 18 (best I can do on a Godlike..my favorite race thematically and ascetically).

 

Talents.

 

1. Lay on Hands (Flames of Devotion on a low accuracy character even with the +20 accuracy buff is putrid early game..doesn't get good until you get good accuracy late game or have a offensively build Paladin early game IMO).

 

2. Weapon and Shield style

 

3. Zealous Focus.

 

4.  Cautious Attack

 

5. Zealous Charge (repositioning the battlefield rocks I love it).

 

That's it so far.  Maybe I should dump some Res for Might?  If you really want to do some type of ok DPS you need to penetrate DR.  Hatchets and quick weapons suck at it unless you have the armor pen talent...should I take this talent and switch between modals for when I need offense and defense? This game makes it hard for you to play both Defense and Offense (as it should.).

[alexis13]

How was deflection nerfed?

[Torm51]

Perception no longer gives Def but Accuracy. So across he board their is less deflection.

[AndreaColombo]

Yeah, but for a tank that means, like, 10 points of Deflection lost?

 

Can still easily get north of 120 unbuffed and north of 160 buffed. I don't think you really need more if you have good CON and DR.

 

I've personally never used a pure tank but would likely have one in a fully custom party. If nothing else, they could keep enemies busy while I buff the other guys in the back

Edited August 24, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Psychevore]

I never saw any need for high constitution. On any character, not even on tanks.

 

Has this changed in 2.0?

[PIP-Clownboy]

I never saw any need for high constitution. On any character, not even on tanks.

 

Has this changed in 2.0?

 

Depends if you're a savescumming non-iron man player. Or not. 

[MasterCipher]

I can't speak to White March, but this worked well for me so far.

 

I started with a max deflection orlan pally MT and found it to be overkill. I use a rogue MT (central stats below) and a pally OT (3 CON tremendous support buffs and solid dps). Everyone else in high dps ranged party also has 3 Con, but Con is useful on MT for fortitude saves against KD/stunn - the HP itself is kind of meh on a high deflection/reflex build. Pally MTed mostly until around level 6.   

 

Stats Talent Ability Mig 21   crippling strike Dex 18 sword and shield   Con 18   reckless assault Int 3 deflecting assault   Per 3   riposte Res 15 superior deflection       deep wounds (synergizes with riposte)   savage blows       deathblows   vulnerable attack