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Darkpriest

Esports still on the rise

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Over a year ago I've created a following thread, about Valve's movie and some story behind one of the branches of e-sports

 

It seems that it is still getting bigger.

 

After last years nearly 11mil prizepool, this years The International in August will have 15+million USD in prizepool money, and that's just DotA 2 event.

 

There are also other events, and recently one of the organizers, ESL, got 76% of its shares acquired by Swedish multimedia company MTG for over 76mil EUR.

 

ESL organized in last couple of years such events as:

 

Intel Extreme Masters (LoL, SC2, CS:GO)

 

 

ESL Frankfurt (DotA 2):

 

 

(both videos are from last year, 2015 had even greater scope in both cases)

 

I personally wonder, will this type of competition become as popular as "main stream" competitions? I mean, prizepool money wise, which sports put 15mil USD of prizepool into their "world finals" at this point?

 

Can this be in 10-20 years on par with regular sports in terms of exposure, or will it remain a considerable market, but won't make it into mainstream media?

 

Last year I recall one of ESPN channels was transmitting DotA2 finals of The International 4, and one of the points for doing so, was the amount of money in the prizepool, the second point was probably to scope how popular this entertainment is as of now.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited by Darkpriest
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I personally wonder, will this type of competition become as popular as "main stream" competitions? I mean, prizepool money wise, which sports put 15mil USD of prizepool into their "world finals" at this point?

 

 

In most lucrative sports salaries of best athletes are higher than 15M USD. And those who success in "world finals" usually get (possibly even tens of) millions of dollars worth advertisement deals addition to their salaries. So popular esports have become quite lucrative, but it is still far from level where some traditional sports are.

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esports are lucrative at the moment only for winners, the "lower peasants" of esports are unfortunately far far away from ways how "lower peasants" in normal sports can make money...


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To me, it's always going to be more like competitive fishing or bowling.  Yes, you can make some good money at the top, but it is still primarily a hobby for most.  Although it could grow to be as big as poker, if they can tap into any celebrity power.

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I personally wonder, will this type of competition become as popular as "main stream" competitions? I mean, prizepool money wise, which sports put 15mil USD of prizepool into their "world finals" at this point?

 

 

In most lucrative sports salaries of best athletes are higher than 15M USD. And those who success in "world finals" usually get (possibly even tens of) millions of dollars worth advertisement deals addition to their salaries. So popular esports have become quite lucrative, but it is still far from level where some traditional sports are.

 

 

Well sure, that it has long ways to go if you compare it to the things like: Football, Basketball, American Eggball, Hockey, Baseball and Box. It sure does need "celebrity" status personas for more marketable exposure, and probably this is the one field where this kind of entertainment will struggle for a time, but the question is, will it remain as is, or grow when looking that 10-20yrs into the future. After all each discipline started up as a hobby, which was later getting better organized.

 

Another point is - How many people you have playing computer games and competing in that environment vs competing in traditional disciplines like football? If the technology will get even more affordable and widespread I can see a possibility of esports getting even more traction.

 

To put things in perspective - 10-12 years ago, you would have tournaments for a box of bear or something like 1k USD/EUR at most

 

also a quote from one of DotA2 related sites:

 

TI5 beats out both the 2015 Masters Cup and the 2015 Cricket World Cup in terms of prizepool, with both competitions hosting a 10 million dollar prizepool for both tournaments. It's also almost on par with the FIFA Club World Cup, which has a prize pool of 16.5 million dollars. Despite this, DOTA 2, and eSports as a whole, still have a long way to go before we reach popularity levels on par with the NFL and FIFA. The winning team of the UEFA Champions League gets a whopping 15 million euros.

 

EDIT: Just to avoid confusion - FIFA CLUB World Cup is not the same in prestige and scope as the FIFA World Cup, which hosts national teams and has a prizepool of around 550-600mln USD

Edited by Darkpriest

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As another e-sports event starts - The International 5 - with a prizepool of over 17 million USD, there are also showing up first news of a darker side of every sport.

 

it seems that after one of the most recent big e-sports event, one of the top CS:GO players admitted to using The "Adderal" substance, which is widely banned in regular sports as a doping substance. The message was hinting that is not a singular player or event that this happened. This news forced reaction from major e-sports organizers for future events to set up anti-doping policies.

 

It seems that while all the glory of regular competitions is not yet fully there, the shady and questionable practices to improve own performance is there already, as the prizepools, involvement of various sponsors and viewership increased significantly over the last couple of years.

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Well sure, that it has long ways to go if you compare it to the things like: Football, Basketball, American Eggball, Hockey, Baseball and Box. It sure does need "celebrity" status personas for more marketable exposure, and probably this is the one field where this kind of entertainment will struggle for a time, but the question is, will it remain as is, or grow when looking that 10-20yrs into the future. After all each discipline started up as a hobby, which was later getting better organized.

 

Another point is - How many people you have playing computer games and competing in that environment vs competing in traditional disciplines like football? If the technology will get even more affordable and widespread I can see a possibility of esports getting even more traction.

 

 

Yea... Notice that all those things labeled "sports" also fall into a category of things called athletics. So called "esports" qualifies as competitive, but not athletics, just like chess. It's no wonder so many people chuckle at the mere mention of it and don't take it seriously. Perhaps if they stopped calling an apple an orange...


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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Well sure, that it has long ways to go if you compare it to the things like: Football, Basketball, American Eggball, Hockey, Baseball and Box. It sure does need "celebrity" status personas for more marketable exposure, and probably this is the one field where this kind of entertainment will struggle for a time, but the question is, will it remain as is, or grow when looking that 10-20yrs into the future. After all each discipline started up as a hobby, which was later getting better organized.

 

Another point is - How many people you have playing computer games and competing in that environment vs competing in traditional disciplines like football? If the technology will get even more affordable and widespread I can see a possibility of esports getting even more traction.

 

Yea... Notice that all those things labeled "sports" also fall into a category of things called athletics. So called "esports" qualifies as competitive, but not athletics, just like chess. It's no wonder so many people chuckle at the mere mention of it and don't take it seriously. Perhaps if they stopped calling an apple an orange...
Where do you classify motor sports then? After all you only drive the car... right? Olympic shooting with pneumatic guns is also not the sport then?

 

You realize that maintaining focus extreme reflexes and high reaction time etc for a long period of time is not something that your average joe burger eating basement dweller can maintain?

 

Sure they are not the most fit people but they do train their bodies in the areas which are most important for them.

Edited by Darkpriest

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Darkpriest, have you ever driven hard in a car made for it? No, I don't mean taking a ricer with a lol cold air intake and fartcan muffler behind wally world and drag racing some guy in his mom's 20 year old station wagon. I mean something like an Audi TT, RSX, or BMW on a mountain road and driven hairpins with it? G-forces actually provide a fairly decent workout.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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Darkpriest, have you ever driven hard in a car made for it? No, I don't mean taking a ricer with a lol cold air intake and fartcan muffler behind wally world and drag racing some guy in his mom's 20 year old station wagon. I mean something like an Audi TT, RSX, or BMW on a mountain road and driven hairpins with it? G-forces actually provide a fairly decent workout.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/13035450/league-legends-prodigy-faker-carries-country-shoulders Sincerely ESPN.

 

Currently there are several methods that are being tested to pay players. Dota's tournament system is one, but the game that I follow (League of Legends, the one featured in ESPN's article) has a league system that requires the teams to pay their players a salary (although the salary comes from Riot, the developer, and often teams are paying extra on top of that). The company views esports as a loss leader to get people to play the game and get the skins within the game.


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What does professional Chess get classed as?  'Esports' should fall under the same term as that as it is really not a sport. 


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Darkpriest, have you ever driven hard in a car made for it? No, I don't mean taking a ricer with a lol cold air intake and fartcan muffler behind wally world and drag racing some guy in his mom's 20 year old station wagon. I mean something like an Audi TT, RSX, or BMW on a mountain road and driven hairpins with it? G-forces actually provide a fairly decent workout.

I have driven a car at 280kmph - 4x4wheel sports car and have a special license. I know what i am talking about. Same with gun contests or even golf. Chess are different as they technically challenge only mind in data processing and foresight ability.

 

In the e-sports you get taxed on body too. It is mostly endurance (play finals in front of live audience for up to 7h in case of some finals), then reaction time and reflexes and last but not least hand-eye coordination and then mind skills like data processing and foresight.

 

It is another form than pure strenght and stamina based sports and i would put it in line of archery, gun shooting, golf hybrid types.of sports. They meet the definition of athletes. It is just hard to imagine because for a lot of people games are relaxing off time activities.

 

BTW, IMO Valve is doing a great job with their documentaries. Last year they released a fairly long video "Free to Play" about the background and how the game became the e-sport, and this year they are releasing various player profiles, so people can actually know more about various struggles and character traits of people behind some team names.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxkyNsoBqOdBCsaYZMgLjqbAMYtz-gUWC

Edited by Darkpriest

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The total prize pool for TI5 is 17.6 MILLION 200px-Drevil_million_dollars.jpg dollars.  That's a pretty good chunk of change.

 

The winning team stands to take home over 6.3 million.

Edited by Keyrock

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esports are lucrative at the moment only for winners, the "lower peasants" of esports are unfortunately far far away from ways how "lower peasants" in normal sports can make money...

I'm not so sure about that. A year or two ago Riot games managed to get one of the LoL pro players an official sportsman recognition, which means extra financial support for their work (granted, I don't know what the details are, but I'm guessing travelling fees and such).

Second, pros tend to stream games on their off hours and people like Maximus Black, who - pro or not - is frankly a joke, yet still rakes in ludicrous ammounts of donations and subscriptions.


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I mean, sure eSports players don't make nearly as much money as pro athletes in popular sports, but eSports is still in its infancy.  NFL, NBA, MLB, EPL, La Liga, NASCAR, F1, etc all these leagues didn't get to where they are overnight, it took many decades to grow them to the massive money making machines they are today.  The fact that eSports pros can already make the amount of money they make today is damn impressive.

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esports is a silly term, but that is unimportant.  hey, whilst channel surfing we has lingered on the iron chef more than once.  what will they do with squid eyeballs and pumpkin? world series o' poker, with half the participants dressed like the unabomber, can be compelling, but we don't consider such to be sports. we went to a high school that were desperate to improve academics, and so there were a push by folks to makes band and debate teams eligible for varsity letters.  so, esports?  not sports.  so what?  if is entertaining, then so much the better.  if some folks can find a way to make money doing what they like best, then great. is already any number o' competitive endeavours that can be entertaining and lucrative.   jeopardy is already an esport, no?  am not personal a fan o' jeopardy, but the quiz show thing has been around almost as long as TV.  is a competitions and there is tactics and strategy involved. such stuff is nothing new, but we don't get the sad nerdling need to find some kinda acceptance from the jocks.  esports is not sports.

 

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esports is a silly term, but that is unimportant.

He said it best I think... I was making an observation about the word "sport", and nothing more really.


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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I have driven a car at 280kmph - 4x4wheel sports car and have a special license. I know what i am talking about.

Wanna race? ;)

 

https://youtu.be/dTHWBSluUjU


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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As another e-sports event starts - The International 5 - with a prizepool of over 17 million USD, there are also showing up first news of a darker side of every sport.

 

it seems that after one of the most recent big e-sports event, one of the top CS:GO players admitted to using The "Adderal" substance, which is widely banned in regular sports as a doping substance. The message was hinting that is not a singular player or event that this happened. This news forced reaction from major e-sports organizers for future events to set up anti-doping policies.

 

It seems that while all the glory of regular competitions is not yet fully there, the shady and questionable practices to improve own performance is there already, as the prizepools, involvement of various sponsors and viewership increased significantly over the last couple of years.

this is not new. Starcraft 1 Brood War pro players in Korea were caught in a match mixing/betting scandal that got some of them kicked from pro BroodWar permanently. This happened before Starcraft 2 was released and rise of Esports started happening in the western world.

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As another e-sports event starts - The International 5 - with a prizepool of over 17 million USD, there are also showing up first news of a darker side of every sport.

 

it seems that after one of the most recent big e-sports event, one of the top CS:GO players admitted to using The "Adderal" substance, which is widely banned in regular sports as a doping substance. The message was hinting that is not a singular player or event that this happened. This news forced reaction from major e-sports organizers for future events to set up anti-doping policies.

 

It seems that while all the glory of regular competitions is not yet fully there, the shady and questionable practices to improve own performance is there already, as the prizepools, involvement of various sponsors and viewership increased significantly over the last couple of years.

this is not new. Starcraft 1 Brood War pro players in Korea were caught in a match mixing/betting scandal that got some of them kicked from pro BroodWar permanently. This happened before Starcraft 2 was released and rise of Esports started happening in the western world.

Yeah match fixing happened sometimes before but what is new is that players start using various substances which are considered illegal in regular sport. Now how it will get policed is another thing but being aware of the issue is already a first step in the right direction.

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Drugs should be legal. PERIOD.

 

End, of rhine.


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I have driven a car at 280kmph - 4x4wheel sports car and have a special license. I know what i am talking about.

Wanna race? ;)

 

https://youtu.be/dTHWBSluUjU

 

 

only if you will sit in/on it and drive :D

 

 

Ouuuch! You obviously have no idea how hot those engines get. :p


Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar

 

:facepalm: #define TRUE (!FALSE)

I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry.

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Drugs should be legal. PERIOD.

 

End, of rhine.

So i other words you would like to see how medicine of the.most advanced country wins in all competitions?

 

I am sure that in 20-30 years we will start seeing some genetic tinkering so we can wait till then. For now I'd rather have all forms of competitions be clean and based on proper nutrition and training regime alone (+ talent)

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