Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Meshugger]

Back to topic:

 

[Bartimaeus]

Barti darling who do you support ..GG or anti-GG

 

 

And before you answer please make the decision based on the overall state of this whole furor and not what you think people on this forum want you to say 

 

 

At the start of this whole thing, I was mildly in support of GG: I agreed with a lot of their stated ideals (though not all), but I didn't particularly want to be associated with them due to reputation issues: more specifically, the louder more fringe (in my opinion) elements, but as well as the problem of needless polarization and demonization (again, in my opinion) between the different factions at least partly borne out of what I felt was a combination of both ignorance and obtuseness on both sides. I just did not want to be a part of it regardless of which side I more closely aligned with. There was also the fact that I view the gaming industry as a bit of a lost cause for a variety reasons at this point anyways (and not limited just to GG's stances, I might add: I take at least few from opposing viewpoints, too, though I may have somewhat different thoughts on them...but that's true for GG's stances, too).

 

Nowadays, even though my opinions in this regard haven't much changed, I feel more strongly aligned with GG than before - even though I sometimes still disagree with some of the methods and ideas employed by the movement, I disagree even more with some of what I consider to be the lunacy of the anti-GG. I am still, however, not actually associating with them, though. However...I find it ironic that you're the one asking me this, Bruce, because you're at least partly to blame for that: when somebody mentions "anti-GG", I can't but help think of you as being my sort of mental "representation" for their ideas and ideals and arguments...and your posts on this subject as well as in other political topics are genuinely so infuriating to me (yes, yours specifically: no-one else in these topics that I disagree with - even those I chronically disagree with - has ever gotten even half as bothersome to me so far), that the anti-GG side seems almost anathematic to me at this point.

 

I don't mean this to devolve into a personal attack, particularly because you seem like a mostly genuinely pleasant person outside of these topics (and also you seem to attempt to be pleasant even inside of them, although it mostly seems to have the opposite effect on me)...but every time I enter one of these topics and I see posts like your latest ones in this topic (not necessarily the ones in reply to Amentep - besides the "degrade" one - or the one to aluminiumtrioxid, but the oh-so-condescending ones before in reply to Meshuggah and Orogun), I can't help but consider putting you on my ignore list because I know that there's no way that I can discuss with you in a acceptable manner (in regards to the rules and basic politeness) without at least reverting to extreme passive-aggressiveness...which is still not acceptable to me, seeing as I'm very often not correct/100% on the mark all of the time, which, combined with me likely sounding like a jerk to you and everyone else, is not something I really want to be engaging with. It's also not very healthy/satisfactory for me, either.

 

Again, sorry if this seems mean and overly personal: I really don't mean to be, and I'm trying to make it as polite as possible while still being honest: you just drive me crazy in these sorts of topics, Bruce. I also recognize that this is purely a personal problem. Anyone who wants to criticize me in turn, feel free to take a shot so I can feel better about this post. Alternatively, you can deny me that and make me extra feel like a jerk. It's up to you, readers.

 

(edit): Also, this took me literally like 45 minutes to write out. Don't say I didn't try my best, at the very least.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Zoraptor]

Grr quote system, why you not work?

 

There is literally nothing that compels you to use the particular web spaces that want you to adhere to a particular set of morals.

Ie. I don't feel I'm being "forced on the right path" and "dehumanized" by the nearest church preaching that I will go to Hell for finding men attractive, because I lose nothing by simply ignoring them.

 

I'd be pretty sure that most of the anti sjw crowd would find that comparison a bit... lacking. SJWs are a lot more evangelical than that which is why they have the 'warrior' part of their moniker, religion wise they're more like 7th Day Adventists or adherents of the Church of Latter Day Saints- or perhaps more like an atheist(+) who insists on going into a church to try and convert people there.

 

If I were feeling particularly bad about sjws I'd compare them to Crusaders, going to liberate the heathen reddit and 4chan and convert them by fire and the sword to the Right Way of Social Justice, lest they die the permanent eDeath and never become eNlightened in the ways of our Lord Theoretically Non Hierarchical Pseudo Collective.

 

 

It is like saying to the Indians that there is nothing that compels them to stay on the land.
The thing is that these webspaces didn't began with those set of morals; they are being pushed, for some that have literally spent years visiting them and have become invested in them such a drastic change is a shock.

Also, It really doesn't matter that you don't feel it because there is this awful and wonderful thing called other people that can feel independently from you. For them that have been cast aside by these websites it is a blow to their personhood.

 
 
To which I can only say: boo-****ing-hoo, grow the **** up.
 
I do find it vaguely ironic that cries of "grow a thicker skin!" and "make your own game!" abound whenever someone mentions they don't feel represented in today's gaming, but when "webspaces" ^{[which ones?]} are "being pushed" ^[how?] to adopt a set of morals ^{[specifically what set?]} they didn't originally have ^{[since when can't culture shifts happen naturally? for that matter, why is it bad when they happen?]}, it's suddenly "a blow against your personhood", akin to the plight of the Native Americans.
 
...
 
Wow. Just wow.

 

 

That was certainly a bit overstated, if someone seriously feels their personhood has been affronted by something online it had better be something significant like defamation or the like rather than having some hipster be a bit of an asterisk.

 

However, as above sjws are evangelical about their views. 4chan was a asteriskhole of a place, yet sjws want to influence it. Why, really, unless they want to (yeah, metaphorically, there might be a bit of metaphor around this post) sack, slaughter and stick the eHeads of their eNemies on virtual pikes above the gates? You have sjws cliques in reddit running fake groups and doxxing and organising harassment campaigns with impunity because they're fighting the good fight or whatever.

 

Overall though, equating 'make your own games' with 'make your own (new) forums' is not really a valid equation. GGers cannot 'invade' a game and put it to fire and the sword, worst they can do is ridicule it and not buy it, if it appeals to a market and is competently made then that hardly matters- if it doesn't then whatever GG may say, which is all they can really do, doesn't matter. OTOH, sjws can easily invade a forum whether old or new so can invade and brutalise any refugee forums established just as easily as the original ones. So the only answer for places like 8chan or the 'codex is to take the immortal words of Admiral Tolwyn to heart: 'The price of freedom is eternal vigilance'.

[Nonek]

I fail to see what all of the hand wringing over the last page or so is about, Gamergate has won: Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the customer, the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable, and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

 

The tide is gradually turning, the laudable moral goals of Gamergate are proven, whereas their opponents on the pro corruption side have been shown to be extremists whom believe in such sick ideas as #killallmen, concentration camps for men, laughing at the victims of terrorist attacks and are usually hypocrites whose behaviour is both immoral and sickening.

 

The vast and diverse races of both genders whom have come together to champion gamers is a fine display of a consumer revolt, and personally I hope that this sparks something bigger and more enduring, that we gain a journalistic arm for this multi billion dollar industry that is fit for purpose, that we are able to form an ombudsman to watch over and monitor the industry and that we finally rid ourselves of the toxic atmosphere, that the corrupt, anti consumer press has propagated for so many years now.

 

Of course i'm not saying that vigilance and work is not required anymore, because there are still sites like RPS, Kotaku and Polygon whom must be brought to book, but we have an upper hand now.

[Orogun01]

 

 

what do you gain by this "GG has its causes 

" ...do you even have an end goal? 

 

What? Is this September 2014? This ride will never end.

 

 

Seriously what is the end goal? There is something I must concede that I didn't want to develop. GG has created something meaningful..there is now a block of very connected and committed people who are opposed to SJ campaigns on different levels. It consists of mostly white, male gamers and they have some valid concerns and have a logical reason to exist

 

I obviously won't judge my own race for making a misplaced stand so I am not opposed to them as much as people think 

 

Why does it need to have an end goal? It is pretty much born out of concern and a love for the industry and games, they want gaming to be better and not just SJ propaganda. If the SJ movement in gaming dies down then they the GG people will die down as well, or at least until the next outrage. They act as a consumers watch, which has banded together borne out of necessity since the journalists tend to be either on the side of publishers or ideologically inclined to causes not everyone shares. 

It will die down but I don't there will be a clear end.

[BruceVC]

 

Barti darling who do you support ..GG or anti-GG

 

 

And before you answer please make the decision based on the overall state of this whole furor and not what you think people on this forum want you to say 

 

 

At the start of this whole thing, I was mildly in support of GG: I agreed with a lot of their stated ideals (though not all), but I didn't particularly want to be associated with them due to reputation issues: more specifically, the louder more fringe (in my opinion) elements, but as well as the problem of needless polarization and demonization (again, in my opinion) between the different factions that I felt was at least partly borne out of what I felt was a combination of both ignorance and obtuseness on both sides. I just did not want to be a part of it regardless of which side I more closely aligned with. There was also the fact that I view the gaming industry as a bit of a lost cause for a variety reasons at this point anyways (and not limited just to GG's stances, I might add: I take at least few from opposing viewpoints, too, though I may have somewhat different thoughts on them...but that's true for GG's stances, too).

 

Nowadays, even though my opinions in this regard haven't much changed, I feel more strongly aligned with GG than before - even though I sometimes still disagree with some of the methods and ideas employed by the movement, I disagree even more with some of what I consider to be the lunacy of the anti-GG. I am still, however, not actually associating with them, though. However...I find it ironic that you're the one asking me this, Bruce, because you're at least partly to blame for that: when somebody mentions "anti-GG", I can't but help think of you as being my sort of mental "representation" for their ideas and ideals and arguments...and your posts on this subject as well as in other political topics are genuinely so infuriating to me (yes, yours specifically: no-one else in these topics that I disagree with - even those I chronically disagree with - has ever gotten even half as bothersome to me so far), that the anti-GG side seems almost anathematic to me at this point.

 

I don't mean this to devolve into a personal attack, particularly because you seem like a mostly genuinely pleasant person outside of these topics (and also you seem to attempt to be pleasant even inside of them, although it mostly seems to have the opposite effect on me)...but every time I enter one of these topics and I see posts like your latest ones in this topic (not necessarily the ones in reply to Amentep - besides the "degrade" one - or the one to aluminiumtrioxid, but the oh-so-condescending ones before in reply to Meshuggah and Orogun), I can't help but consider putting you on my ignore list because I know that there's no way that I can discuss with you in a acceptable manner (in regards to the rules and basic politeness) without at least reverting to extreme passive-aggressiveness...which is still not acceptable to me, seeing as I'm very often not correct/100% on the mark all of the time, which, combined with me likely sounding like a jerk to you and everyone else, is not something I really want to be engaging with. It's also not very healthy/satisfactory for me, either.

 

Again, sorry if this seems mean and overly personal: I really don't mean to be, and I'm trying to make it as polite as possible while still being honest: you just drive me crazy in these sorts of topics, Bruce. I also recognize that this is purely a personal problem. Anyone who wants to criticize me in turn, feel free to take a shot so I can feel better about this post. Alternatively, you can deny me that and make me extra feel like a jerk. It's up to you, readers.

 

(edit): Also, this took me literally like 45 minutes to write out. Don't say I didn't try my best, at the very least.

 

 

Barti !! Stop being a bad boy 

 

I very very seldom take anything personally, so please I prefer your brutal honesty. I really don't mind because I have to be honest I feel I am right about all the points I make. I don't mind that most of you guys disagree with me....that doesn't change the fact what I say is true and if you understood it you would be a much more fulfilled and relaxed person as things would make sense (of course sometimes I am wrong and then I generally admit it )

 

But I can't force you to see things from my perspective so I just hope you come around on your own but if not I will continue to raise important and different views from what most of you believe about this whole GG fiasco 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

what do you gain by this "GG has its causes 

" ...do you even have an end goal? 

 

What? Is this September 2014? This ride will never end.

 

 

Seriously what is the end goal? There is something I must concede that I didn't want to develop. GG has created something meaningful..there is now a block of very connected and committed people who are opposed to SJ campaigns on different levels. It consists of mostly white, male gamers and they have some valid concerns and have a logical reason to exist

 

I obviously won't judge my own race for making a misplaced stand so I am not opposed to them as much as people think 

 

Why does it need to have an end goal? It is pretty much born out of concern and a love for the industry and games, they want gaming to be better and not just SJ propaganda. If the SJ movement in gaming dies down then they the GG people will die down as well, or at least until the next outrage. They act as a consumers watch, which has banded together borne out of necessity since the journalists tend to be either on the side of publishers or ideologically inclined to causes not everyone shares. 

It will die down but I don't there will be a clear end.

 

 Ah finally a really relevant question...you ask " why does it have to have an end goal " 

 

Sorry to sound critical but I am going to be honest. I respect you see GG as a consumers watch and you really believe in this but the whole movement just seems nebulous around tangible objectives. Real objectives makes it easier to convince people about your narrative...and you do have valid concerns that could be positioned better.

 

So ask yourself what your real goals are that gives you purpose and direction. Us SJW have this, that is what makes our views unequivocal and easier to explain

 

I mean imagine meeting someone at a bar and trying to explain what GG is about ?

[BruceVC]

I fail to see what all of the hand wringing over the last page or so is about, Gamergate has won: Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the customer, the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable, and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

 

The tide is gradually turning, the laudable moral goals of Gamergate are proven, whereas their opponents on the pro corruption side have been shown to be extremists whom believe in such sick ideas as #killallmen, concentration camps for men, laughing at the victims of terrorist attacks and are usually hypocrites whose behaviour is both immoral and sickening.

 

The vast and diverse races of both genders whom have come together to champion gamers is a fine display of a consumer revolt, and personally I hope that this sparks something bigger and more enduring, that we gain a journalistic arm for this multi billion dollar industry that is fit for purpose, that we are able to form an ombudsman to watch over and monitor the industry and that we finally rid ourselves of the toxic atmosphere, that the corrupt, anti consumer press has propagated for so many years now.

 

Of course i'm not saying that vigilance and work is not required anymore, because there are still sites like RPS, Kotaku and Polygon whom must be brought to book, but we have an upper hand now.

I read this post and yet I still can't determine one example of  " GG victory " . Once again Nonek drop the grandstanding and post some facts ?

 

Anita  and her kind are  still active, certain websites still push SJ issues, companies like Bioware have embraced progressive change, E3 had all these token female developers and companies like Obsidian are concerned with the views of the LGBT community

 

These are all " victories " to me...you see I post facts. Please do the same if you want to convince people of the GG victory 

[Volourn]

"Alum is basically smarter than the rest of us, I know that annoys certain people but its true."

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

 

". There is a difference between Zoe Quinn who was a no name, diffident , depressed programmer having an affair with some equally no name " gaming journalist " and Hogan the super-celebrity sleeping with his friends wife...yet they are also similar so I had to concede I was wrong  "

 

Your logic is evil.

 

 

"Seriously what is the end goal?"

 

To say alive. that is usually the goal when people threaten to murder you all the while falsely claiming you are dead.

 

 

 

"Anita  and her kind are  still active"

\

So are Nazis. SUCCESS?

 

"certain websites still push SJ issues"\

 

It's the damn internet. There are 'certain websites' dedicated to absically anything you think of. Is that the bar you set? L0L

 

", companies like Bioware have embraced progressive change"

 

\Yet, they are still trashed the so called 'progressives' and their games  are worse. ME3 and DA3 are the ONLY two BIO games I have ever started that I simply could not finish because of boredom

 

", E3 had all these token female developers"\

 

Token? Is that the goal? Also, as proveb, women have had as much if nor more prescense in the past.

 

 

"and companies like Obsidian are concerned with the views of the LGBT community"

 

Yeah, and it cost them a co founder. And, those SJWs STILL bash Obsidian.

 

 

"Please do the same if you want to convince people of the GG victory"

 

I'm a gamer, still alive, playing violent games with B00BIES. That is PURE GG VICTORY.

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

 

what do you gain by this "GG has its causes 

" ...do you even have an end goal? 

 

What? Is this September 2014? This ride will never end.

 

 

Seriously what is the end goal? There is something I must concede that I didn't want to develop. GG has created something meaningful..there is now a block of very connected and committed people who are opposed to SJ campaigns on different levels. It consists of mostly white, male gamers and they have some valid concerns and have a logical reason to exist

 

I obviously won't judge my own race for making a misplaced stand so I am not opposed to them as much as people think 

 

Why does it need to have an end goal? It is pretty much born out of concern and a love for the industry and games, they want gaming to be better and not just SJ propaganda. If the SJ movement in gaming dies down then they the GG people will die down as well, or at least until the next outrage. They act as a consumers watch, which has banded together borne out of necessity since the journalists tend to be either on the side of publishers or ideologically inclined to causes not everyone shares. 

It will die down but I don't there will be a clear end.

 

 Ah finally a really relevant question...you ask " why does it have to have an end goal " 

 

Sorry to sound critical but I am going to be honest. I respect you see GG as a consumers watch and you really believe in this but the whole movement just seems nebulous around tangible objectives. Real objectives makes it easier to convince people about your narrative...and you do have valid concerns that could be positioned better.

 

So ask yourself what your real goals are that gives you purpose and direction. Us SJW have this, that is what makes our views unequivocal and easier to explain

 

I mean imagine meeting someone at a bar and trying to explain what GG is about ?

 

GG has had short term goals which they have termed operations, that link to the larger goal of ethics in game journalism and (disavowedly) fighting SJ menace.

[BruceVC]

"Alum is basically smarter than the rest of us, I know that annoys certain people but its true."

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

 

". There is a difference between Zoe Quinn who was a no name, diffident , depressed programmer having an affair with some equally no name " gaming journalist " and Hogan the super-celebrity sleeping with his friends wife...yet they are also similar so I had to concede I was wrong  "

 

Your logic is evil.

 

 

"Seriously what is the end goal?"

 

To say alive. that is usually the goal when people threaten to murder you all the while falsely claiming you are dead.

 

 

 

"Anita  and her kind are  still active"

\

So are Nazis. SUCCESS?

 

"certain websites still push SJ issues"\

 

It's the damn internet. There are 'certain websites' dedicated to absically anything you think of. Is that the bar you set? L0L

 

", companies like Bioware have embraced progressive change"

 

\Yet, they are still trashed the so called 'progressives' and their games  are worse. ME3 and DA3 are the ONLY two BIO games I have ever started that I simply could not finish because of boredom

 

", E3 had all these token female developers"\

 

Token? Is that the goal? Also, as proveb, women have had as much if nor more prescense in the past.

 

 

"and companies like Obsidian are concerned with the views of the LGBT community"

 

Yeah, and it cost them a co founder. And, those SJWs STILL bash Obsidian.

 

 

"Please do the same if you want to convince people of the GG victory"

 

I'm a gamer, still alive, playing violent games with B00BIES. That is PURE GG VICTORY.

To say your example of a GG victory is " I'm a gamer, still alive, playing violent games with B00BIES. That is PURE GG VICTORY " just seems like a very low bar to set yourself?

 

Think about it and post something more significant, I'm actually trying to help you

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

what do you gain by this "GG has its causes 

" ...do you even have an end goal? 

 

What? Is this September 2014? This ride will never end.

 

 

Seriously what is the end goal? There is something I must concede that I didn't want to develop. GG has created something meaningful..there is now a block of very connected and committed people who are opposed to SJ campaigns on different levels. It consists of mostly white, male gamers and they have some valid concerns and have a logical reason to exist

 

I obviously won't judge my own race for making a misplaced stand so I am not opposed to them as much as people think 

 

Why does it need to have an end goal? It is pretty much born out of concern and a love for the industry and games, they want gaming to be better and not just SJ propaganda. If the SJ movement in gaming dies down then they the GG people will die down as well, or at least until the next outrage. They act as a consumers watch, which has banded together borne out of necessity since the journalists tend to be either on the side of publishers or ideologically inclined to causes not everyone shares. 

It will die down but I don't there will be a clear end.

 

 Ah finally a really relevant question...you ask " why does it have to have an end goal " 

 

Sorry to sound critical but I am going to be honest. I respect you see GG as a consumers watch and you really believe in this but the whole movement just seems nebulous around tangible objectives. Real objectives makes it easier to convince people about your narrative...and you do have valid concerns that could be positioned better.

 

So ask yourself what your real goals are that gives you purpose and direction. Us SJW have this, that is what makes our views unequivocal and easier to explain

 

I mean imagine meeting someone at a bar and trying to explain what GG is about ?

 

GG has had short term goals which they have termed operations, that link to the larger goal of ethics in game journalism and (disavowedly) fighting SJ menace.

 

Orog you are reasonable person so do you see what I mean. I gave you time to think about it and thats all you could think of ?

 

Don't you see the issue...it lacks real substance. Its like you saying " oh well our goal is to fight SJW when it suits us " ? 

Edited July 1, 2015 by BruceVC

[Volourn]

"To say your example of a GG victory is " I'm a gamer, still alive, playing violent games with B00BIES. That is PURE GG VICTORY " just seems like a very low bar to set yourself?"

 

I'm fine with that. Setting a low bar for myself has worked for 38 years. If I set higher ones I probably wouldn't be wasting my time on forums. LMAO And, you would miss me. So, i do it for you.

[BruceVC]

"To say your example of a GG victory is " I'm a gamer, still alive, playing violent games with B00BIES. That is PURE GG VICTORY " just seems like a very low bar to set yourself?"

 

I'm fine with that. Setting a low bar for myself has worked for 38 years. If I set higher ones I probably wouldn't be wasting my time on forums. LMAO And, you would miss me. So, i do it for you.

 

You funny, yes I would miss you 

 

You are very interesting person and you often misunderstood 

[Nonek]

 

I fail to see what all of the hand wringing over the last page or so is about, Gamergate has won: Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the customer, the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable, and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

 

The tide is gradually turning, the laudable moral goals of Gamergate are proven, whereas their opponents on the pro corruption side have been shown to be extremists whom believe in such sick ideas as #killallmen, concentration camps for men, laughing at the victims of terrorist attacks and are usually hypocrites whose behaviour is both immoral and sickening.

 

The vast and diverse races of both genders whom have come together to champion gamers is a fine display of a consumer revolt, and personally I hope that this sparks something bigger and more enduring, that we gain a journalistic arm for this multi billion dollar industry that is fit for purpose, that we are able to form an ombudsman to watch over and monitor the industry and that we finally rid ourselves of the toxic atmosphere, that the corrupt, anti consumer press has propagated for so many years now.

 

Of course i'm not saying that vigilance and work is not required anymore, because there are still sites like RPS, Kotaku and Polygon whom must be brought to book, but we have an upper hand now.

 

I read this post and yet I still can't determine one example of  " GG victory " . Once again Nonek drop the grandstanding and post some facts ?

 

Anita  and her kind are  still active, certain websites still push SJ issues, companies like Bioware have embraced progressive change, E3 had all these token female developers and companies like Obsidian are concerned with the views of the LGBT community

 

These are all " victories " to me...you see I post facts. Please do the same if you want to convince people of the GG victory 

 

 

I posted facts, you do not as I shall demonstrate:

 

1. Mr McIntosh's sock puppet is a laughing stock whose cause that games cause violence and sexism has been disproven.

2. Certain websites still pushing SJF issues does not invalidate the victories of Gamergate when those websites have had to implement ethics policies. 

3. Bioware are doing what Origin did twenty plus years ago they have embraced regressive change.

4. E3 had less female representation this year than the last.

5. Obsidian are interested in making a profit, which has nothing to do with the struggle for ethics that Gamergate works for, their audience is their own business.

 

Now please disprove the facts that I posted above, respond to my earlier question and prove that I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda as you stated, and for Gods sake read a dictionary and look up grandstanding, you are the one doing that not I.

 

If you cannot do this and provide factual evidence then please stop responding to my posts, as I do not wish to hear the same condescending rhetoric repeated again and again.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

I fail to see what all of the hand wringing over the last page or so is about, Gamergate has won: Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the customer, the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable, and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

 

The tide is gradually turning, the laudable moral goals of Gamergate are proven, whereas their opponents on the pro corruption side have been shown to be extremists whom believe in such sick ideas as #killallmen, concentration camps for men, laughing at the victims of terrorist attacks and are usually hypocrites whose behaviour is both immoral and sickening.

 

The vast and diverse races of both genders whom have come together to champion gamers is a fine display of a consumer revolt, and personally I hope that this sparks something bigger and more enduring, that we gain a journalistic arm for this multi billion dollar industry that is fit for purpose, that we are able to form an ombudsman to watch over and monitor the industry and that we finally rid ourselves of the toxic atmosphere, that the corrupt, anti consumer press has propagated for so many years now.

 

Of course i'm not saying that vigilance and work is not required anymore, because there are still sites like RPS, Kotaku and Polygon whom must be brought to book, but we have an upper hand now.

 

I read this post and yet I still can't determine one example of  " GG victory " . Once again Nonek drop the grandstanding and post some facts ?

 

Anita  and her kind are  still active, certain websites still push SJ issues, companies like Bioware have embraced progressive change, E3 had all these token female developers and companies like Obsidian are concerned with the views of the LGBT community

 

These are all " victories " to me...you see I post facts. Please do the same if you want to convince people of the GG victory 

 

 

I posted facts, you do not as I shall demonstrate:

 

1. Mr McIntosh's sock puppet is a laughing stock whose cause that games cause violence and sexism has been disproven.

2. Certain websites still pushing SJF issues does not invalidate the victories of Gamergate when those websites have had to implement ethics policies. 

3. Bioware are doing what Origin did twenty plus years ago they have embraced regressive change.

4. E3 had less female representation this year than the last.

5. Obsidian are interested in making a profit, which has nothing to do with the struggle for ethics that Gamergate works for, their audience is their own business.

 

Now please disprove the facts that I posted above, respond to my earlier question and prove that I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda as you stated, and for Gods sake read a dictionary and look up grandstanding, you are the one doing that not I.

 

If you cannot do this and provide factual evidence then please stop responding to my posts, as I do not wish to hear the same condescending rhetoric repeated again and again.

 

Nonek I was wondering when you were going to stop ignoring me...I admit I missed our chats and even the insults from you  

 

I am going to try very hard to answer your questions but sometimes I can't due to time restraints and the fact we were asked to not hijack the thread which was exactly why I didn't respond to you last time. So don't become too hangup when I can't respond, sometimes there are valid reasons. 

 

I need to research your points ....I would prefer not to but I will if you insist in the interests of proper forum  etiquette ? 

Edited July 1, 2015 by BruceVC

[Nonek]

I shall repeat please provide factual evidence for the above, if you do not then I shall continue to ignore you, and would ask that you stop talking at me. I have answered every one of your questions, however ridiculous, you have answered none of mine. Now either do so or show your true colours.

[BruceVC]

I shall repeat please provide factual evidence for the above, if you do not then I shall continue to ignore you, and would ask that you stop talking at me. I have answered every one of your questions, however ridiculous, you have answered none of mine. Now either do so or show your true colours.

Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies

- Okay well if you consider this a victory, I never had an issue with this

 

, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the custome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Alexander_(journalist)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kuchera

 

They seem fine to me?

 

the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated

Yeah this was silly but I said you guys misunderstood this

, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable,

No this isn't true I agree 

and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

Once again this is not an absolute and also false. I agree 

 

So to be honest I only see point 1 as valid ? The last two are just silly generalizations that were unnecessary and you shouldn't have worried about 

[Nonek]

 

I shall repeat please provide factual evidence for the above, if you do not then I shall continue to ignore you, and would ask that you stop talking at me. I have answered every one of your questions, however ridiculous, you have answered none of mine. Now either do so or show your true colours.

Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies

- Okay well if you consider this a victory, I never had an issue with this

 

, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the custome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Alexander_(journalist)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kuchera

 

They seem fine to me?

 

the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated

Yeah this was silly but I said you guys misunderstood this

, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable,

No this isn't true I agree 

and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

Once again this is not an absolute and also false. I agree 

 

So to be honest I only see point 1 as valid ? The last two are just silly generalizations that were unnecessary and you shouldn't have worried about 

 

 

1. So this is one fact I have made, it doesn't matter what you thought of it.

2. They were both removed from their previous positions, another fact, whether they are doing fine is neither here nor there.

3. The articles were published and are now being backpedalled from, another fact, and your opinion is once more worthless.

4. So you agree, another fact.

5. You agree again, another fact.

 

All five of my claims were true, all five of yours were false. You have lied five times now, produced no facts and conceded that I have spoken truly five times. Now please provide evidence that I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda as you stated, or apologise and deny that you are interested in providing any factual discussion.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

I shall repeat please provide factual evidence for the above, if you do not then I shall continue to ignore you, and would ask that you stop talking at me. I have answered every one of your questions, however ridiculous, you have answered none of mine. Now either do so or show your true colours.

Numerous publications have changed or implemented new ethics policies

- Okay well if you consider this a victory, I never had an issue with this

 

, individuals such as Ms Alexander, Mr Kuchera, Mr Chipman etcetera have been shown the door for their blatant contempt for the custome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Alexander_(journalist)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kuchera

 

They seem fine to me?

 

the twelve gamers are dead articles are now being frantically back pedalled from and their message desperately denied by the indoctrinated

Yeah this was silly but I said you guys misunderstood this

, the ridiculous accusation that the men and women of Gamergate are all misogynists and racists is becoming laughable,

No this isn't true I agree 

and all this when the media have been spinning a proven false dialogue that Gamergate is a harassment campaign.

Once again this is not an absolute and also false. I agree 

 

So to be honest I only see point 1 as valid ? The last two are just silly generalizations that were unnecessary and you shouldn't have worried about 

 

 

1. So this is one fact I have made.

2. They were both removed from their previous positions, another fact.

3. The articles were published and are now being backpedalled from, another fact.

4. So you agree, another fact.

5. You agree again, another fact.

 

All five of my claims were true, all five of yours were false. You have lied five times now, produced no facts and conceded that I have five times. Now please provide evidence that I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda as you stated, or apologise and deny that you are interested in providing any facts.

 

 

This is not about facts in the general sense ..this is suppose to be about examples of GG victory ?

 

How can you see 4 & 5 as examples? You are not taking this debate seriously 

[Nonek]

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Nonek ...no offense but I am not sure if you understand my question. If you don't mind I just want confirmation from someone else that points 4 & 5 are indeed examples of a GG victory...I just don't see it?

[BruceVC]

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Oh I take back that I said you are a liar, that was wrong 

[Nonek]

 

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Nonek ...no offense but I am not sure if you understand my question. If you don't mind I just want confirmation from someone else that points 4 & 5 are indeed examples of a GG victory...I just don't see it?

 

 

I repeat Gamergaters were labelled en masse as misogynist and racist, this was disproven by the #Notyourshield campaign, thus Gamergate scored a victory against those whom were misrepresenting it. This is simple and undeniable.

 

Gamergate was labelled a harassment campaign, this was disproven by independent Twitter analytics, thus once more Gamergate scored a victory against those whom were misrepresenting it. This is simple and undeniable.

 

I have provided five factual statements, you have provided none, thus I dismiss your claim that you are interested in factual discussion.

 

 

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Oh I take back that I said you are a liar, that was wrong 

 

 

Not good enough, apologise and please provide evidence that I am pursuing a false agenda or apologise for that as well.

[BruceVC]

 

 

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Nonek ...no offense but I am not sure if you understand my question. If you don't mind I just want confirmation from someone else that points 4 & 5 are indeed examples of a GG victory...I just don't see it?

 

 

I repeat Gamergaters were labelled en masse as misogynist and racist, this was disproven by the #Notyourshield campaign, thus Gamergate scored a victory against those whom were misrepresenting it. This is simple and undeniable.

 

Gamergate was labelled a harassment campaign, this was disproven by independent Twitter analytics, thus once more Gamergate scored a victory against those whom were misrepresenting it. This is simple and undeniable.

 

I have provided five factual statements, you have provided none, thus I dismiss your claim that you are interested in factual discussion.

 

 

This is about facts! Points four and five are true, Gamergaters were called misogynists and racist, and their movement described as an harassment campaign, even though Twitter analysis by an independent body and the #Notyourshield campaign disproved this, thus they are facts. They are also most certainly victories, disproving your demonisation of the movement. I am taking this debate seriously, I have provided five factual statments you have provided none, you are not taking this discussion seriously nor providing any facts.

 

Now please provide evidence as to why I am a liar and pursuing a false agenda or apologise and deny that you are interested in a factual discussion.

 

Oh I take back that I said you are a liar, that was wrong 

 

 

Not good enough, apologise and please provide evidence that I am pursuing a false agenda or apologise for that as well.

 

I know you think I'm avoiding answering you but I'm actually helping you .....to say " we proved that GG wasn't full of sexists " was obvious. I engage with most of you guys everyday, I know you aren't sexist or misogynistic. Anyone who suggested that the thousands of people who flocked to GG were all sexist is making an utterly absurd and unsubstantiated statement...many of them were indeed white,male gamers but that is fine and understandable 

 

Please stop trying to take credit for something that was obvious