Meshugger Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed diatribe he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage I had to force myself to read it It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug. See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi. I found the manifesto on 8chan. //edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence. No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done. Fair enough. But there's still one level of barrier though. It requires active searching for those who are interested instead of it being broadcasted to millions. Personally I have no issue with this manifesto being in the public domain because then people can see just how dysfunctional this man was...and I am not even talking about the appalling ideological points he raises. Its full of egregious factual mistakes....the guy clearly wasn't very bright So the only people who will read it and think its clever and insightful would already be racist. Its not like it will convince new people to start a race war...surly people can't be that naive? Maybe i am too hungover to tell, but i didn't see any facts, only some personal anecdotes and opinions in the manifesto. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) " does the Confederate flag really represent heritage for some people which would make it non-offensive to them" ? Absolutely it does. But, the feels, man, the feels. Some people view it as 'racist' and according to them only their feels matter. We should ban the Amerikan flag b/c people view it as evil. We should ban the Kanadian flag too b/c it is offensive to people as well - just ask many natives. The logic of banning a flag is silly and dumb. Flags do not murder people. PEOPLE. You don't ban it people have hurt feels. You ban it people have hurt feels. Feels are for crybabies. But come on Volo you know some flags and symbols are banned in certain countries, like the swastika. So banning a flag is not without precedent But the way some of the Southerners see it is they had family members who died and sacrificed themselves in the Civil War, so the Confederate flag is a tribute to there legacy. It really can have nothing to do with racism so I do see both sides I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed diatribe he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage I had to force myself to read it It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug. See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi. I found the manifesto on 8chan. //edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence. No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done. Fair enough. But there's still one level of barrier though. It requires active searching for those who are interested instead of it being broadcasted to millions. Personally I have no issue with this manifesto being in the public domain because then people can see just how dysfunctional this man was...and I am not even talking about the appalling ideological points he raises. Its full of egregious factual mistakes....the guy clearly wasn't very bright So the only people who will read it and think its clever and insightful would already be racist. Its not like it will convince new people to start a race war...surly people can't be that naive? Maybe i am too hungover to tell, but i didn't see any facts, only some personal anecdotes and opinions in the manifesto. Yes thats correct but then why are you worried this manifesto is easily available on the Internet...or did I misunderstand you ? Edited June 20, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 "But come on Volo you know some flags and symbols are banned in certain countries, like the swastika. So banning a flag is not without precedent " But come on Bruce you know I had nothing to do with some flags and symbols being banned in certain countries like the swastika. So banning a flag is not my doing so don't act like it was me who did so. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 "But come on Volo you know some flags and symbols are banned in certain countries, like the swastika. So banning a flag is not without precedent " But come on Bruce you know I had nothing to do with some flags and symbols being banned in certain countries like the swastika. So banning a flag is not my doing so don't act like it was me who did so. Sorry Volo but I never even hinted at you being responsible for flags being banned....so you have clearly misunderstood my point "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/ Probably a good idea, whatever that flag stood for in the past, it just stands for racism. Not for it, though people (like me) are free to think that the guys who have it emblazoned on the hoods of their cars or flying by the antenna are huge pricks. The issue I take with it is more even absent the connotations of racism, it's a flag celebrating treason. Edited June 20, 2015 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/ Probably a good idea, whatever that flag stood for in the past, it just stands for racism. Even absent the connotations of racism, it's a flag celebrating treason. Okay then why does SC keep using it if so many people in the USA think its such a bad idea? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 " does the Confederate flag really represent heritage for some people which would make it non-offensive to them" ? Absolutely it does. But, the feels, man, the feels. Some people view it as 'racist' and according to them only their feels matter. We should ban the Amerikan flag b/c people view it as evil. We should ban the Kanadian flag too b/c it is offensive to people as well - just ask many natives. The logic of banning a flag is silly and dumb. Flags do not murder people. PEOPLE. You don't ban it people have hurt feels. You ban it people have hurt feels. Feels are for crybabies. But come on Volo you know some flags and symbols are banned in certain countries, like the swastika. So banning a flag is not without precedent But the way some of the Southerners see it is they had family members who died and sacrificed themselves in the Civil War, so the Confederate flag is a tribute to there legacy. It really can have nothing to do with racism so I do see both sides I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed diatribe he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage I had to force myself to read it It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug. See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi. I found the manifesto on 8chan. //edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence. No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done. Fair enough. But there's still one level of barrier though. It requires active searching for those who are interested instead of it being broadcasted to millions. Personally I have no issue with this manifesto being in the public domain because then people can see just how dysfunctional this man was...and I am not even talking about the appalling ideological points he raises. Its full of egregious factual mistakes....the guy clearly wasn't very bright So the only people who will read it and think its clever and insightful would already be racist. Its not like it will convince new people to start a race war...surly people can't be that naive? Maybe i am too hungover to tell, but i didn't see any facts, only some personal anecdotes and opinions in the manifesto. Yes thats correct but then why are you worried this manifesto is easily available on the Internet...or did I misunderstand you ? Ah, i meant it to be broadcasted by the major news organisations like CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc... The internet is a two-way communication though, you have to actively search for what information you want to read. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. But you haven't given your reason why you think they are doing it? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 People have died for the right to raise any flag that they want, just keep that in mind. Thank you. 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/ Probably a good idea, whatever that flag stood for in the past, it just stands for racism. Not for it, though people (like me) are free to think that the guys who have it emblazoned on the hoods of their cars or flying by the antenna are huge pricks. The issue I take with it is more even absent the connotations of racism, it's a flag celebrating treason. Well just indicates rednecks, like the Don't Tread on Me jack. But was speaking about the common perception of it. Also is a rebel flag, but the US was built on that Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. States have strong identities in the US, no ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. States have strong identities in the US, no ? Definitely. They all have their own flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. States have strong identities in the US, no ? Definitely. They all have their own flags. Yeah, cute. But if the state and its people felt it was something part of their identity so not all that stupid. Interesting roadblocks they put up to stop it being taken down, though, well played. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is a big difference between the government flying the confederate flag and some guy with an orange Dodge Charger. It makes zero sense for a government building to fly a flag that is representative of both racial and governmental strife. States have strong identities in the US, no ? Definitely. They all have their own flags. Yeah, cute. But if the state and its people felt it was something part of their identity so not all that stupid. Interesting roadblocks they put up to stop it being taken down, though, well played. What did they say ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/south-carolina-confederate-flag-still-flies/ In any case the flag was put up as an insult to civil rights folk in the 1960s, it seems Edited June 21, 2015 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leferd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/ Aaron Sorkin elegantly sums up my views on the Confederate Flag. Sports Night. Season One --Episode 11. "The Six Southern Gentlemen of Tennessee" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvBOJ1budU Or for the specific episode spoiler climax: https://youtu.be/7GvBOJ1budU?t=945 "Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin."P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I don't often disagree with Obama but he is reading too much into this...he was saying " Racism is tearing our Democracy apart" No, this is incorrect. This terrible incident was just another one in a long list that have been happening unfortunately in the USA over the last 10-15 years that involve mass killings caused by normally a lone gunman. It seemed to start with Columbine and sadly there is nothing you can really do to fix unless you tighten gun control which has been proven it can't be legally implemented as the NRA and there supporters keep blocking it The difference with this attack was it was purely race motivated and he only targeted one race. This actually surprises me that it hasn't happened before considering the current gun culture in the USA . We have had several of these in South Africa "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Archived link in case it goes down. https://archive.is/GSdDO Reads like a whiny neet ranting. It went down "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Dylan Roof did it because video games!!1 This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I can't believe they are still working on bringing down the confederate flag in South Carolina. Talk about too much bureaucracy. It should be pretty simple to take down the flag. It doesn't represent the state or the US. What a waste of taxpayer dollars. The people elect a governor, it should be as simple as the governor telling a custodian to take it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Well, they are working on it - what's the rush ? Rather funny to see politicians calling for the take down, opportunity knocks once I guess. Edited June 23, 2015 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well just indicates rednecks, like the Don't Tread on Me jack. But was speaking about the common perception of it. Also is a rebel flag, but the US was built on that For the historically interested, the flag in question was General Lee's "battle flag" and represented the struggle for a confederacy of independent states without a strong central government in Washington. For some Americans, it still represents that. 3 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Banning things will get the problem go away. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well just indicates rednecks, like the Don't Tread on Me jack. But was speaking about the common perception of it. Also is a rebel flag, but the US was built on that For the historically interested, the flag in question was General Lee's "battle flag" and represented the struggle for a confederacy of independent states without a strong central government in Washington. For some Americans, it still represents that. It's a bit ironic that it takes a special election and a 2/3 vote by the state senate to remove a symbol of independence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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