Request - Overwrite Enchantments

[Gary1986]

I have a request to make. Can we have it so we can overwrite enchantments? What i mean is say i put +2 Might on my robe, and then later on in the game i decide i want to have +2 Intelligence instead, make it so i can overwrite the +2 Might with +2 Intelligence.

 

I'm not sure if it would be an easy change for you to make, but i figured it would make enchanting items more user friendly

[Ink Blot]

I didn't enchant much in my runs through the game, but isn't this what currently happens? I seem to recall that if you enchant in one of the categories and there's already an enchantment in that category, that it replaces the original.

[player1]

Not quite. You can overwrite enhancemt only if new one has more points. You can not, for example swap damage 2 with accuracy 2.

[Kimble]

This so much.

 

I got pretty disappointed during my playthrough when I discovered I couldn't remove my old enchant and replace it with a better one, bricked my Jolting touch dagger with a crappy +1 dex enchant. :|

[rnarchlord]

The only category that you can overwrite with higher enchants is the Quality of the item.  In the other two categories the cost is the same for all enchants.

[Gary1986]

Little bump to see if I can get an official reply on this

[PrimeJunta]

IMO the enchantment system is too permissive already. I'd rather make it so that Fine, Exceptional, and Superb can't be bestowed at all, all enchantments are final, and you have to go to a blacksmith's shop to have them done. That way you'd have to think about it a bit rather than just going herp derp corrosive lash. 

[AndreaColombo]

IMO the enchantment system is too permissive already. I'd rather make it so that Fine, Exceptional, and Superb can't be bestowed at all

 

That would be too limiting. If I like a weapon aesthetically, for example, I want it to be viable for the whole game even if it starts out as "Fine" or even with no quality enchantment. If I can't make it "Exceptional" or "Superb", I will eventually be forced to stop using it even if I'd like it better than another weapon. Same goes with Armor (cough cough Sanguine Plate cough cough).

[PrimeJunta]

If I have to choose between playing dress-up and a subsystem that drives interesting gameplay, I'll pick the latter. YMMV

[Elerond]

IMO the enchantment system is too permissive already. I'd rather make it so that Fine, Exceptional, and Superb can't be bestowed at all, all enchantments are final, and you have to go to a blacksmith's shop to have them done. That way you'd have to think about it a bit rather than just going herp derp corrosive lash. 

 

I think Obsidian is in bit difficult place with enchanting system, because there are group of people that think that it destroys uniqueness of loot and therefore it should be more restricted or even removed from the game. And then there is other group of people that think it is too restricted and it should be more open.

 

Originally their plans was to make it so that player can put any enchantment to any weapon (originally crafting was such that it could be only done in certain places, similarly to resting, but both of those features were removed before beta started), so that their favorite looking weapons don't become useless in end of the game. But during beta they decided to go with more restricted version of crafting.

 

I am personally OK with any of the three options mentioned (more restricted, more open, current), because for me it is important that I can min-max my equipment, not how I can acquire said equipment.

[AndreaColombo]

If I have to choose between playing dress-up and a subsystem that drives interesting gameplay, I'll pick the latter. YMMV

 

Why can't we have both?

 

I like my characters to look good while they kick ass

 

EDIT: to clarify, I like the enchantment system as is. I wouldn't mind being able to overwrite enchantments, but I won't be particularly bothered if that's not implemented. Being able to make an item viable throughout the whole game is a very dear feature to me.

Edited June 25, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[PrimeJunta]

What I like about restricted crafting is that it turns into a gameplay driver in its own right. The most fun I've had with crafting is playing a gunslinger/technomancer in Arcanum. Hunting for schematics and components and building up my character so I can make the things I want became as important as doing quests and unraveling mysteries. It added a whole new dimension to it. 

 

To pick an example that's closer to home, I also liked NWN2 OC's crafting system a lot. The recipes, components, and requirements were tough enough that getting something really cool took planning and effort, and the rewards were big enough to make it worth it.

 

With Pillars, crafting is just another subsystem, but nothing more. It's never motivated me to change anything about the way I play.

[Gunnar.Maluf]

 

IMO the enchantment system is too permissive already. I'd rather make it so that Fine, Exceptional, and Superb can't be bestowed at all, all enchantments are final, and you have to go to a blacksmith's shop to have them done. That way you'd have to think about it a bit rather than just going herp derp corrosive lash. 

 

I think Obsidian is in bit difficult place with enchanting system, because there are group of people that think that it destroys uniqueness of loot and therefore it should be more restricted or even removed from the game. And then there is other group of people that think it is too restricted and it should be more open.

 

 

 

I'm in the first group. The items we found didn't feel as unique because you could make a fine sword into a Exceptional one without a hassle. 

Sure, they limited the resources needed to make superb items but even Exceptional was just too good already. I like the feeling

of getting great loot from fallen enemies, specially the ones that were hard to kill.

 

If it's just aesthetics that matter, then lets make a system/tool to edit the asthetic of the items you carry without changing it's properties.

That way everyone could look the way they want with gear that's amazing.

 

Other way to fix the unique items without removing the enchanting system is to give unique items, unique properties that you cant get through enchantment

and those properties would not count for the maximum enchantments allowed making those unique items really good (charging more to enchant than enchanting normal items). The game's balance could be a problem.

[AndreaColombo]

PrimeJunta: That I can agree with it.

 

Having to go out of your way to retrieve specific ingredients and/or recipes would be pretty good (and I hope they're doing something similar with soulbound weapons in the expansion—i.e. to make them really powerful you need to go the extra mile and accomplish some pretty tricky/tough stuff). I wouldn't mind having to put in some extra effort in order to obtain something cool.

 

But that wouldn't have to prevent being able to upgrade existing weapons and armors in order to be interesting, would it?

 

Gunnar.Maluf: As far as I'm concerned, aesthetics is but a part of it. A part that I care about more than most, I'll give you that, but still not the whole.

 

Take once again the example of the Sanguine Plate. I like its looks and I like its Spellholding: Frenzy ability. I want to be able to keep it throughout the whole game but if I can't enchant it to Exceptional or Superb, I would be willingly shooting myself in the foot by not swapping it with, say, Argwes Adra. And changing the latter to look like Sanguine Plate wouldn't cut it, as Argwes Adra doesn't have Spellholding: Frenzy either. See what I mean?

Edited June 25, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Elerond]

What I like about restricted crafting is that it turns into a gameplay driver in its own right. The most fun I've had with crafting is playing a gunslinger/technomancer in Arcanum. Hunting for schematics and components and building up my character so I can make the things I want became as important as doing quests and unraveling mysteries. It added a whole new dimension to it. 

 

To pick an example that's closer to home, I also liked NWN2 OC's crafting system a lot. The recipes, components, and requirements were tough enough that getting something really cool took planning and effort, and the rewards were big enough to make it worth it.

 

With Pillars, crafting is just another subsystem, but nothing more. It's never motivated me to change anything about the way I play.

 

It is not because crafting is more restricted in Arcanum or NWN2 than in PoE that their crafting systems feel more interesting, but that they feel more rewarding. In PoE there crafting adds only little bonuses for the items or short temporal boost for characters and you can actually mostly ignore it. In NWN2 had more complex crafting system, but that rewarded you if you invested in it and in Arcanum crafting was life blood for tech play through, sadly it is actually much less interesting and rewarding than magic side, both games' crafting systems suffer from similar issues than PoE meaning that crafting is just optional side content, it isn't needed and addition to get most benefits from it you need heavily invest in it (which you don't need to do in PoE), but where they are better is in complexity and effort, which probably them feel more rewarding than PoE's system at least for some.

[PrimeJunta]

Complexity and effort is the key. That's what I mean by "restrictive." The suggestions I had earlier would be small steps in that direction, but something that could be done easily without overhauling the whole thing.

[Nakia]

I was disappointed with crafting.  I would have preferred that there be some restrictions.

 

1) Cooking available at fires, kitchens, resting with campfire.

2) Potions and enchantments need a lab of some sort.

3) Find, buy, be given recipes.

 

Ingredients can be hard to find but once found you can craft anywhere.

 

On the other hand I wish we could enchant more items such as robes and helmets.  Except for a few enchanted helmets I find them a waste of time to equip.  Which is not historically correct.  Nitpicking maybe but the one thing someone going into combat wanted other than a weapon was head protection.  Even a well padded hat/cap was preferable to a bare head.  Even hair was used to help protect the head I understand.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Nakia

[Elerond]

 

 

Other way to fix the unique items without removing the enchanting system is to give unique items, unique properties that you cant get through enchantment

and those properties would not count for the maximum enchantments allowed making those unique items really good (charging more to enchant than enchanting normal items). The game's balance could be a problem.

 

 

Currently unique items (not all, but most) have unique properties/enchantments that you can't get through enchanting, although those properties/enchantments take enchanting slots from the items, although that matters only with some items that have multiple such properties/enchantments.

[PrimeJunta]

@Nakia yeah. I dunno how much artistic license those Greek vases took when depicting hoplites fighting naked, but even they had their helmets on (and the shield ofc).

[Nakia]

@Nakia yeah. I dunno how much artistic license those Greek vases took when depicting hoplites fighting naked, but even they had their helmets on (and the shield ofc).

You might find this site of interest.  I refer to Matt Houston a lot when checking medieval weapons, armour, etc.

[Luckmann]

IMO the enchantment system is too permissive already. I'd rather make it so that Fine, Exceptional, and Superb can't be bestowed at all, all enchantments are final, and you have to go to a blacksmith's shop to have them done. That way you'd have to think about it a bit rather than just going herp derp corrosive lash. 

 

Been saying this for a long time. I don't even want the "Quality" line of Enchantments to be, well, Enchantments. They should be attributes intrinsic to the weapon, qualities of forging.

[PrimeJunta]

I'd even make it so that Fine, Exceptional, Superb determines the number of enchantment slots on the item.

 

And so that it'd be possible to forge them from scratch. You'd still be able to make that Suberb Estoc of Murder you want, but you'd have to start by finding the ore, the soul, and an animancer-metallurgist willing to sacrifice it to make the skein steel.

[Gary1986]

Even if they revamped the crafting system so you had to collect recipes/go to a forge etc etc, it would still be nice to be able to overwrite the enchantments

[Gary1986]

Still waiting for an official response on this

[Zekram Bogg]

I was disappointed with crafting.  I would have preferred that there be some restrictions.

 

1) Cooking available at fires, kitchens, resting with campfire.

2) Potions and enchantments need a lab of some sort.

3) Find, buy, be given recipes.

 

Ingredients can be hard to find but once found you can craft anywhere.

 

On the other hand I wish we could enchant more items such as robes and helmets.  Except for a few enchanted helmets I find them a waste of time to equip.  Which is not historically correct.  Nitpicking maybe but the one thing someone going into combat wanted other than a weapon was head protection.  Even a well padded hat/cap was preferable to a bare head.  Even hair was used to help protect the head I understand.

This was all in some earlier version of the game for sure. You can definitely tell because of the upgrades you can make to Brighthollow which are totally functionless in the release game would only make sense if these restrictions were in place, hence why they were originally made.

 

I for one just think both systems need to be in the game, just as restricted stash access is in the game, and flipped on or off in the options menu.

 

I mean, they already have like, 98% of the system in place to restrict enchantments/upgrades in the game. They just need to make them a set of conditions that can be accessed by the player, perhaps with a couple new UI buttons in some places (like one so when you camp there's a "cook" button next to "stash", "rest" and "cancel", and probably some unique access art for hearths in the game, forges and the like.

 

If restricted enchanting/crafting were in place it would give so much more importance to certain choices in the game. For instance, which of the 3 main factions do you choose in Defiance Bay? Well, one of them has access to a huge impressive forge that probably means you can upgrade quality to max status, so there's a good reason to choose them in a mechanics sense rather than just a "I like these guys" sense.

 

Similarly, if they restricted Build a Party member recruitment at inns so that you could only get one at any inn in the game with the exception of the Adventurer's hall in Defiance Bay, it'd give choosing them a lot more meaning too.

 

In general I tend to find that restrictions bring a sense of meaning, removing restrictions is only good for convenience. I tend to think meaning is more important than convenience in an RPG centered around player choice, myself.

 

Also, while on the subject of requests about enchanting . . .

 

CAN WE PLEASE GET SOME MORE SHIELD ENCHANTMENTS????

 

I mean, three things:

 

#1 - Shield Bashing is in the game, but so far as I have found, only occurs on one unique shield. Which is ridiculous. How in the world is it the case that a shield needs unique properties for me to shove it in some Xaurip's snout?

 

#2 - These stick out like a sore thumb as something obviously not consistent with the rest of the enchanting system.

 

#3 - In case there need to be some suggestions for "well what would you enchant a shield with, anyway?" here:

 

- Absorbing (Damage Type) (Lesser/Greater) - Shield absorbs some small percentage of attacks from one of the elemental types as endurance for the wielder.

- Reflecting (Damage Type) - Shield has a percent chance to reflect assigned damage type back at enemies.

- Bashing (Damage Type) - All Bashing does base crush damage, but you can add a bash lash onto shields too, but this only applies to large shields. 

- Hurling (Damage Type) - Allows user to throw their shield at enemies as an impromptu attack once per combat, but only small/medium shields

- Unique enchantments like "Charging" which absorb energy attack energy to grant more Cipher power or refresh an expired ability et cetera, or "Taunting" which makes the wielder of the shield higher as a target priority.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Zekram Bogg