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The "rape culture" moral panic on US college campuses


Ineth

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It's weird to me how quick some people in this thread are to just believe everything the guy is saying and discount the woman completely.  Thankfully we have a legal system that weighs actual evidence.

 

 

Your legal system did not put the guy in prison and no apparent attempts were even made. Which is suggestive of the level of evidence.

 

There was no such trial that's the point and despite that damage to a man not convicted of a crime was done.

 

Hence his suit against the University, which if the evidence holds up, will basically result in him winning the lottery.

Which does not negate the last year or so of him being unable to complete his degree due to being expelled for disciplinary reasons.

 

Well again, life is not fair.  It would certainly be worse if he was facing criminal prosecution.  Even if the lawsuit does not pan out, he can likely still pursue his degree through a different school.

Excusing an awful practice with "life's not fair" is...odd.

 

As to being able to finish the degree if the lawsuit not panning out, that doesn't appear to be true. In the Boston Globe article posted earlier, it stated that he couldn't finish it due to having "expelled for disciplinary reasons" on his transcript.

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"Excusing an awful practice with "life's not fair" is...odd."

 

Agreed. It can be used for almost anything.

 

Oh, that poor girl was raped. Oh well, life isn't fair.

 

That boy who lost his legs because of being hit by a car b/c of a psycho who did so in purpose. Oh well, sucks to be him. Life ain't fair.

 

Slavery? Well, life ain't fair.

 

 'Life ain't fair' is such a dumb cop out 'defense' of evil acts.

\\

 Someone gets raped. It is not about life being unfair. It's about a scumbag being a scumbag.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"It's weird to me how quick some people in this thread are to just believe everything the guy is saying and discount the woman completely.  Thankfully we have a legal system that weighs actual evidence. "

 

L0L

 

 

"Well again, life is not fair.  It would certainly be worse if he was facing criminal prosecution.  Even if the lawsuit does not pan out, he can likely still pursue his degree through a different school. "

 

You are insane. The way you just poo poo what he went through is HILARIOUS. Espicially since he was not onlya ccused of rape he was actually raped. But, oh yeah, you don't believe can be raped. EVIL TO THE CORE. That's SJW feminism  to the MAX.

 

No wonder the vast majority of women are against modern feminism. L0LZ

 

Why do you laugh at evidence?  Do you just take the guy's word on it?  That's as naive as taking the girl's word on it.  Both of them are claiming rape way after the fact, btw.  

 

Of course a man can be raped.  Why didn't he press charges after it happened?  

 

Excusing an awful practice with "life's not fair" is...odd.

 

As to being able to finish the degree if the lawsuit not panning out, that doesn't appear to be true. In the Boston Globe article posted earlier, it stated that he couldn't finish it due to having "expelled for disciplinary reasons" on his transcript. 

 

 

Who is excusing the practice?  I'm all for the guy suing the school.  If the evidence holds up, I hope he gets a windfall from the school.

 

 

 

In terms of his degree, I'd need to know more about it.  Expelled for disciplinary reasons is the same thing you get for plagiarism, so I have a hard time believing he can't find some other school that would allow him to complete the degree.

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In my eyes it does not really matter whom is guilty, merely that the approach to determine that guilt has been from all accounts faulty, unprofessional and lackadaisacal. If the young man is guilty of rape then of course he should be serving jail time, and if not then his accuser should be serving a spell behind bars. Rape is a serious accusation and should be treated seriously, with the rule of law in mind and evidence prioritised, not a trumped up court without any real legal recognition. It demeans a process that the civilised world should ideally cherish and hold to the highest standards, and not allow to be degraded, our ancestors fought and died for these rights.

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"Why do you laugh at evidence?  Do you just take the guy's word on it?  That's as naive as taking the girl's word on it.  Both of them are claiming rape way after the fact, btw. "

 

 The guy's word?  The evidence given by others, cell phones calls, timing makes it very clear what the evidence shows.

 

 

"Of course a man can be raped.  Why didn't he press charges after it happened? "

 

If he's guilty of rape like you believe he is, why didn't the girl go to the proper authorities and get him cgharged with a crime and convicted?

 

Of course, he didn't. He would be laughed out of court ebcause SJWs like you don't believe  a man can be raped espicially by a women. If both a man and a woman are drunk and have sex it is clearly the man who is the rapist even if he is completely unconcious. L0L

 

 

"I'm a bit tired"

 

Have a nap.

 

"of Volourn calling everyone who disagrees with him"

 

Everyone? I'm tired 9and should take a nap) of you lying and exaggerating.

 

"an evil nazi SJW."

 

Nah. I only call those that who fit the description. Then again,  saying evil SJW is unneeded when SJW itself suffices. L0L

 

"  The irony only entertain for so long.  "

 

I'm not here to entertain you. I am here to discuss. You aren't. You ar einto censorship. In fact you are trying to censor me now. Just like nazis do. Also, where's the irony? LMAO

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It's weird to me how quick some people in this thread are to just believe everything the guy is saying and discount the woman completely. Thankfully we have a legal system that weighs actual evidence.

Article does provide backing for him more than it opposes. Not really that weird, just that you disagree with it (flip the situations and maintain that doubt, idea is good comedy).

 

Evidence basis is fine, don't get why some (not here) want the system changed to diminish the requirement to get more convictions to satisfy some percentage requirement or something. But people are hypocrites, naturally, heh.

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I don't disagree with the article, or backing the guy, at all.  I've said over and over and over and over that I hope he is well compensated if he takes it to court and the evidence shows he was wronged. 

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" It is ironic when you call me an SJW because that tactic would seem to be the hallmark of an SJW."

 

The hallmark tatic of a SJW is to call someone who opposes them a SJW? K.

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"Why do you laugh at evidence?  Do you just take the guy's word on it?  That's as naive as taking the girl's word on it.  Both of them are claiming rape way after the fact, btw. "

 

 The guy's word?  The evidence given by others, cell phones calls, timing makes it very clear what the evidence shows.

 

 

"Of course a man can be raped.  Why didn't he press charges after it happened? "

 

If he's guilty of rape like you believe he is, why didn't the girl go to the proper authorities and get him cgharged with a crime and convicted?

 

Of course, he didn't. He would be laughed out of court ebcause SJWs like you don't believe  a man can be raped espicially by a women. If both a man and a woman are drunk and have sex it is clearly the man who is the rapist even if he is completely unconcious. L0L

 

 

"I'm a bit tired"

 

Have a nap.

 

"of Volourn calling everyone who disagrees with him"

 

Everyone? I'm tired 9and should take a nap) of you lying and exaggerating.

 

"an evil nazi SJW."

 

Nah. I only call those that who fit the description. Then again,  saying evil SJW is unneeded when SJW itself suffices. L0L

 

"  The irony only entertain for so long.  "

 

I'm not here to entertain you. I am here to discuss. You aren't. You ar einto censorship. In fact you are trying to censor me now. Just like nazis do. Also, where's the irony? LMAO

Volo, its not necessary to characterize people as  " evil Nazi SJW " 

 

Personally I don't care what you call me because I know it comes from a position of ignorance and I'm use to some  people trying to insult  me

 

But you need to realize that most people will get annoyed by this and be offended. So I can completely understand Hurlshots perspective  :geek:

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Just like I'm offended by you SJWs calling me racist sexist cis white male gamer who is a rapist and deserves to be dead  but is already dead gamer. Look in the mirror. The name calling started with SJWs.

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Just like I'm offended by you SJWs calling me racist sexist cis white male gamer who is a rapist and deserves to be dead  but is already dead gamer. Look in the mirror. The name calling started with SJWs.

Have I called you that? Has Hurlshot called you that, you can't make sweeping generalized statements Volo...it sounds silly 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

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"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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"Have I called you that? Has Hurlshot called you that, you can't make sweeping generalized statements Volo...it sounds silly"

 

You guys support the SJW agenda, you support those 'Gamers are Dead' articles, you support McIntosh, so yeah by supporting those who said that you have said that.

 

Afterall, if HoonDog says Bruce is scum and I say I support him then I might as well have said itmyself.

 

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I am a white male gamer. I am also an equalist.

 

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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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In my eyes it does not really matter whom is guilty, merely that the approach to determine that guilt has been from all accounts faulty, unprofessional and lackadaisacal. If the young man is guilty of rape then of course he should be serving jail time, and if not then his accuser should be serving a spell behind bars. Rape is a serious accusation and should be treated seriously, with the rule of law in mind and evidence prioritised, not a trumped up court without any real legal recognition. It demeans a process that the civilised world should ideally cherish and hold to the highest standards, and not allow to be degraded, our ancestors fought and died for these rights.

 

This basically.

 

If you're accused of rape then either you're proven to be a rapist and go to prison or you're left alone. And if your accuser is proven (beyond any doubt) to have lied, they go to prison. None of that completely consequence free accusing of others. And if neither if provable then... life is not fair. But it is better that a guilty walks free than an innocent be punished.

 

I wish there there was a button to press that just told the exact truth of what happened. But there isn't. The best that can be done is to act based on a concrete evidence standard using a process that is thorough. Any other process that can ruin someone's future based on a standard and implementation that is less than that simply shouldn't exist.

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Boston Globe has article about this case, in my opinion it gives bit better picture about big picture around the case, than article in OP.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

That was some amazing advice by her dorm counselor there, hah.

 

Yeah this seems to be a common pattern among many of the cases where the guy is now suing the school, i.e.

  • a sexual encounter that was either symmetric (e.g. both slightly drunk and equally active), or in which the woman was the active party,
  • ...which the woman felt awkward about in retrospect, but didn't see herself as a victim (or in some cases even realized that she had wronged him),
  • ...until she is later coached by a feminist "dorm counselor" or "professional victim advocate", and reports it as rape.

I think this underpins the assessment that the problem is with the system, and can't just be chalked up to "millennial student culture".

 

It also reinforces the comparison to the 80's child-care abuse moral panic, where over-zealous psychologists/counselors got the children to produce "testimony" about abuse that had not in fact happened.

 

 

Who is excusing the practice?  I'm all for the guy suing the school.  If the evidence holds up, I hope he gets a windfall from the school.

 

The problem is that as long as the OCR's official Title IX interpretation mandates an illiberal and unjust system, schools may get away with such injustice by claiming "we just followed the laws and regulations; take it up with the government if you think you were wronged".

And of course, "taking it up" with the executive branch of government is utterly futile for a 23 year old guy who's life has just been ruined, if not even the Harvard Law School professors can do it.

 

"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Excusing an awful practice with "life's not fair" is...odd.

 

As to being able to finish the degree if the lawsuit not panning out, that doesn't appear to be true. In the Boston Globe article posted earlier, it stated that he couldn't finish it due to having "expelled for disciplinary reasons" on his transcript.

Yeah, I find it rather ludicrous that the innocence principle was abrogated to kick him out and not even a preponderance of evidence criteria was used when deciding to take disciplinary action against him, but now he will have to go through a lengthy court process where those factors are hurdles he will have to overcome. And in case he can't do it, he'll probably end up deep in debt, his life basically destroyed at 23.

 

I agree, life isn't fair. Which is why the state shouldn't make things worse by making arbitrary decisions. Double standards are synonymous with unfairness. On the flipside, a strict application of the same standards to everyone in all cases means that people will sometimes get away with murder. But hey, where in that social contract you never signed says the system is infallible? Yeah...

Edited by 213374U
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I suppose the thinking is that with the old rules of engagement people were getting away with rape. And of course now people are getting away with false rape allegations. Not really an improvement.

 

Well, if you are a woman and don't care about objective standards in the legal system it probably does protect you from rape better than before, seeing as how you have the systemic advantage now and men you engage with are constantly going to be some degre of paranoid about your 'unstated level of consent'.

Considering the level of abuse towards women in most societies I have no issue with them having a systemic advantage

Its funny but despite all the women I have interacted with in my life I have never been accused of rape and neither have any of my male friends, yet I know women who have been raped

 

So a systemic advantage seems like a good idea, I'm not sure why people are so worried?

I've had one friend accused of rape, and one accused of sexual assault. I was there for the SA incident which was nothing the way the woman described(she was harassing him verbally and physically, he pushed her against a wall and told her to leave him alone, she claimed he groped her etc.). The rape accusation was when my other friend was 13, his first time, girl was 2 years older and twice his size. She got pregnant and claimed she was raped because she didn't want to admit to her parents she was sexually active at 15. She dropped it when she realized how much it could destroy my friend if she went through with it.

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