MOB lure ****

[PaleElfDrifter]

I don't know why some players would do this **** and make stage design or mob location set no sense. They just lure the mobs far from their locations to make the mobs go back exclusive one and kill them one by one. Can't developers just fix the mobs to go back with faster move speed or high health regeneration. Or just simply game crash.

[Lightzy]

Or simply tie all the mobs in a group together so that if one sees the player, they all see, and all attack

[anameforobsidian]

It's pretty damn necessary for a triple crown solo run.  Also, it's fun playing with the AI.

[Nakia]

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

[Faerunner]

I'm with Nakia on this. I don't begrudge game options that let players play the way they want. Don't like luring? Don't use it. Otherwise, I see no harm having it for players who do want to use it.

[View619]

The IE games had ****ty group calls too. If not for mods like SCS, you would be able to lure mobs in those games all campaign.

 

As it is, mobs already run back if you try to lure them to a certain distance away from the main group.

Edited June 1, 2015 by View619

[Ink Blot]

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

Pretty much this. I also don't understand all the angst some people display at the thought that other people are having 'badwrongfun' in their own single player experience.

[PaleElfDrifter]

Or simply tie all the mobs in a group together so that if one sees the player, they all see, and all attack

 

Make mobs as a team to fight with. And it is actual used in one pupular game I know.

It's quite reasonable for mobs to call their comrades if you didn't kill the one in one shot.

 

It's pretty damn necessary for a triple crown solo run.  Also, it's fun playing with the AI.

 

Right, it's necessary for solo exclusive wizard in some spots. If they want to play a multiple vs multiple game as a 1 vs all game and use the lure ****. I can't argue with that.

 

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

 

If you think this is fine, don't bother telling me not to **** this ****.

The game doesn't mean to play it that way, otherwise it would be a empty ground with mobs in distances for you to kill one by one.

By the way, the lure **** is not an ability. It's just a way to make game boring.

 

If this is a online game, they'll fix it immediately. Because it is cheating.

Try something before this lure ****. Change a member, try different spell or a new build.

Or change the damn DIFFICULTY. This is the first thing they sould do.

I doubt why they choose to do the lure **** instead of simply change difficulty. Are they pretending be awesome even in playing a game?

[PaleElfDrifter]

 

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

Pretty much this. I also don't understand all the angst some people display at the thought that other people are having 'badwrongfun' in their own single player experience.

 

People excuse themselves is the reason that laws were made to against rapists and other criminals to have their own badwrongfun.

You choose to cheat instead of trying new tactics, or simply change difficulty. You are pretending to be awesome in a game. And you are a cheater.

[Narla]

:nuke: Haha wowow. This post just above mine. :nuke:

[Gorionsson]

 

Oh, dear... 

[Valorian]

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    

 

This nonsense again. Nobody cares what you do in your single-player game, you can crash the game intentionally every 5 minutes as far as I'm concerned, but you need to understand that awful "AI" scripts don't affect ONLY you.

 

If I decide to lure a group of enemies to a choke point, I don't want that group of enemies to act with less cunning than a group of amoebae. Meaning, I don't want them to split, leave monster buddies behind, retreat to a safe space and cower etc. And this can happen if the choke point is far enough. Sometimes the only choke point is far enough. I don't want to choose between not using the advantage of a choke point (especially if I'm soloing) and triggering an awful AI script.

 

To each his own, but I find it amusing that someone sees fun in exploiting an awful and basic script that dictates how enemies will behave once they're far enough from their original location.

It also goes without saying that enemy scripts shouldn't be balanced around marginal modes (so what if there aren't enough exploits to complete triple crown solo).

[redneckdevil]

I'm in the camp of play how u wanna play. Now I will say I'm opposed of people using cheesy tactics and exploits and then complaining the game isn't fun or challenging because even if they know they are going against the "spirit of the rules" by doing such things, because they can they view it as a valid tactics and then proceed to complain the game isn't up to snuff.

[Gorbag]

Dear rapists and criminals,
Please stop pretending to be awesome. You guys suck.

Try new tactics or change the difficulty.

[Luckmann]

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

 

Compare it to the chokepoint tactic, or the fact that enemies tend to clump around the one tank in front, ignoring the back.

 

It isn't about people having badwrongfun, or about plugging exploits. It's about the AI being dumb as bricks and the game effectively trivializes itself. I as a player shouldn't have to neuter myself in order to have an acceptable gaming experience. Like I said, compare it to the other two, more accepted issues with combat.

 

Your argument is analogous to saying "If you don't like the enemy clumping around your tank in front and ignoring our back line completely, don't use ranged characters" or "If the enemy can't deal with choke points, and that bores you, don't use choke points - run wildly into the rooms and throw caution to the wind and get surrounded on purpose". There are legitimately people that have practically taken those stances in the arguments, believe it or not.

 

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be good tactics, and I'm not even saying that there shouldn't be encounters that can't be trivialized - I'm actually fine with many encounters being trivialized if you just approach them the right way. I'm saying that if there's a choke point that enemies can't deal with, they should use your tactic against you and start pelting the tank with arrows, if available. And enemies shouldn't clump around your tank and run circles around other members of the party in an attempt to get to him. And enemies shouldn't suddenly zone out when one of their friends runs away to attack the opposing party (that's you).

 

I've said it many times, and I might just as well say it again - it's not about difficulty. It's not about badwrongfun, either. If it was all about difficulty, that could be solved with numbers inflation (such as PotD). It's about the combat becoming predictable and formulaic, and the enemies acting (or being acted upon) in nonsensical manners, "abusing" clear gaps in the AI or the system.

 

I should absolutely be able to get into position and pull one of the enemies, to have the rest of them come running around a corner. I shouldn't have to run headlong into combat in order for the AI to engage properly. And although I realize that fixing this issue for me and others would interfere with some people's wish to pull enemies one-by-one and have them zone out and return to position, it isn't ultimately about me thinking that they are having badwrongfun, but about fixing what we perceive to be a pretty serious issue in how the opponents in the game behave.

 

I'm in the camp of play how u wanna play. Now I will say I'm opposed of people using cheesy tactics and exploits and then complaining the game isn't fun or challenging because even if they know they are going against the "spirit of the rules" by doing such things, because they can they view it as a valid tactics and then proceed to complain the game isn't up to snuff.

There is no such camp. Or rather, there is no camp that opposes any such a camp.

 

And people shouldn't have to tie their arms around their back and headbutt their way through the game in order for it to provide a challenge, guessing at what is a tactic that is in the "spirit of the rules" and what isn't.

 

There was one combat encounter in the game that I thought was genuinely fun and engaging, and it was when I accidentally stumbled into a room full of xaurips. When the argument becomes that you should cripple yourself or rely on random clumsyness in order for something to provide a real challenge or be interesting, I think we've pretty much hit rock bottom.

 

 

 

It's pretty damn necessary for a triple crown solo run.  Also, it's fun playing with the AI.

 

This is part of why I hate Achievements. It's created the idea that if there's an Achievement, that's supposed to be one of the intended playstyles supported by the game.

 

The game isn't intended to be played Solo. It's a party-based game and Path of the Damned is supposed to be ridiculously hard. The fact that the broken mob luring is necessary for a Triple Crown Solo run isn't a good argument for anything. Before release, developers doubted whether someone would even be able to do Triple Crown Solo (...which just means that they really, really, really should've done more playtesting).

Edited June 1, 2015 by Luckmann

[Gfted1]

Wow, smh. Lets calm down and try to keep things in perspective, please.

[PaleElfDrifter]

Dear rapists and criminals,

Please stop pretending to be awesome. You guys suck.

Try new tactics or change the difficulty.

 

I mean people excuse themselves is the reason. Not new tactics or change the difficulty in a computer game can stop crime.

It's quite obvious and you respond like a kid.

 

People can only cheat like this, in a computer game, is because they are not qualified to do others.

 

 

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    

 

This nonsense again. Nobody cares what you do in your single-player game, you can crash the game intentionally every 5 minutes as far as I'm concerned, but you need to understand that awful "AI" scripts don't affect ONLY you.

 

If I decide to lure a group of enemies to a choke point, I don't want that group of enemies to act with less cunning than a group of amoebae. Meaning, I don't want them to split, leave monster buddies behind, retreat to a safe space and cower etc. And this can happen if the choke point is far enough. Sometimes the only choke point is far enough. I don't want to choose between not using the advantage of a choke point (especially if I'm soloing) and triggering an awful AI script.

 

To each his own, but I find it amusing that someone sees fun in exploiting an awful and basic script that dictates how enemies will behave once they're far enough from their original location.

It also goes without saying that enemy scripts shouldn't be balanced around marginal modes (so what if there aren't enough exploits to complete triple crown solo).

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

If you think luring is cheesy or cheating don't do it but don't bother telling me not to do it.  I find it fun and that it adds to the tactics of the game.

 

Compare it to the chokepoint tactic, or the fact that enemies tend to clump around the one tank in front, ignoring the back.

 

It isn't about people having badwrongfun, or about plugging exploits. It's about the AI being dumb as bricks and the game effectively trivializes itself. I as a player shouldn't have to neuter myself in order to have an acceptable gaming experience. Like I said, compare it to the other two, more accepted issues with combat.

 

Your argument is analogous to saying "If you don't like the enemy clumping around your tank in front and ignoring our back line completely, don't use ranged characters" or "If the enemy can't deal with choke points, and that bores you, don't use choke points - run wildly into the rooms and throw caution to the wind and get surrounded on purpose". There are legitimately people that have practically taken those stances in the arguments, believe it or not.

 

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be good tactics, and I'm not even saying that there shouldn't be encounters that can't be trivialized - I'm actually fine with many encounters being trivialized if you just approach them the right way. I'm saying that if there's a choke point that enemies can't deal with, they should use your tactic against you and start pelting the tank with arrows, if available. And enemies shouldn't clump around your tank and run circles around other members of the party in an attempt to get to him. And enemies shouldn't suddenly zone out when one of their friends runs away to attack the opposing party (that's you).

 

I've said it many times, and I might just as well say it again - it's not about difficulty. It's not about badwrongfun, either. If it was all about difficulty, that could be solved with numbers inflation (such as PotD). It's about the combat becoming predictable and formulaic, and the enemies acting (or being acted upon) in nonsensical manners, "abusing" clear gaps in the AI or the system.

 

I should absolutely be able to get into position and pull one of the enemies, to have the rest of them come running around a corner. I shouldn't have to run headlong into combat in order for the AI to engage properly. And although I realize that fixing this issue for me and others would interfere with some people's wish to pull enemies one-by-one and have them zone out and return to position, it isn't ultimately about me thinking that they are having badwrongfun, but about fixing what we perceive to be a pretty serious issue in how the opponents in the game behave.

 

I'm in the camp of play how u wanna play. Now I will say I'm opposed of people using cheesy tactics and exploits and then complaining the game isn't fun or challenging because even if they know they are going against the "spirit of the rules" by doing such things, because they can they view it as a valid tactics and then proceed to complain the game isn't up to snuff.

There is no such camp. Or rather, there is no camp that opposes any such a camp.

 

And people shouldn't have to tie their arms around their back and headbutt their way through the game in order for it to provide a challenge, guessing at what is a tactic that is in the "spirit of the rules" and what isn't.

 

There was one combat encounter in the game that I thought was genuinely fun and engaging, and it was when I accidentally stumbled into a room full of xaurips. When the argument becomes that you should cripple yourself or rely on random clumsyness in order for something to provide a real challenge or be interesting, I think we've pretty much hit rock bottom.

 

 

 

It's pretty damn necessary for a triple crown solo run.  Also, it's fun playing with the AI.

 

This is part of why I hate Achievements. It's created the idea that if there's an Achievement, that's supposed to be one of the intended playstyles supported by the game.

 

The game isn't intended to be played Solo. It's a party-based game and Path of the Damned is supposed to be ridiculously hard. The fact that the broken mob luring is necessary for a Triple Crown Solo run isn't a good argument for anything. Before release, developers doubted whether someone would even be able to do Triple Crown Solo (...which just means that they really, really, really should've done more playtesting).

 

 

I can't really read it all. It's not my language. Sorry for that you type that much. Can you cut down something if I misunderstood what you mean?

What you mean is that "AI is not smart enough" makes you are allowed to do this lure thing?

But if the AI is too smart, they would beat players. Mobs are numberous than player's team.

It's not developers can't make a smart AI. AI can play chess, and computer game is not harder than that.

And...you said it like a student cheat in a exam, and excuses that the teacher didn't notice.

 

And the ways I mentioned in my first post is actual used in a online game I know. Allow players to cheat is not fair to other players in online game.

And I knew they don't fix it is because this is a single player game. Maybe for some people can only pass the game in this way.

So why don't they just change the difficulty?

[abaris]

I don't understand why in a single player game there are some people who begrudge those of us who like the ability to lure and find it adds to the game play the ability to use it.    The use of lure is optional and the results vary.  Sometimes when I try to lure one enemy a whole bunch attack.  I also like being able to lure a mob to a choke point.

 

It's also more realistic to have a strategy instead of just jumping in all guns blazing. I guess there's no real life warrior past and present, who wouldn't look to use terrain and surprise to their advantage.

 

It's also pretty simple. If someone doesn't like luring, they just can skip the luring part entirely. But if the game weren't designed that way, the ones of us, who actually do like it, couldn't use it, since it wouldn't be there in the first place. A valid point of criticism might be the fact that most mobs just stand around statically. Making them mobile would have added to the game, but I guess that's down to budget restrictions.

[Nakia]

I can only go my my experience.  Most games that I have played do allow luring, it depends on how the aggro is set which can vary from game to game.  Luring is the ability to draw enemies to a spot you feel is more advantageous to you.  It may be only one, a few or a whole group depending on how the aggro mechanics are set.

 

I think  PoE is actually good when it comes to luring compared to many other games I have  played.  I had a battle in the Skaen temple where I was fighting a group when I was attacked from the rear by a small group from another room.  I think that is a plus for PoE.

 

Could the aggro mechanics in PoE be improved?  I  think they could be.  I am happy to discuss the pros and cons of the design system itself.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Nakia

[roller12]

Haha Nakia you sure poked into the hornet nest. Tbh i dont see any problems with any tactic, its a single player game, and it should be versatile. The actual problem is that devs listen to the weirdest whines. And people who whine about game balance do it with these exploits in mind.

 

Here is a hypothetical example

 

Concerned user1,2,3: Arquebusses are too powerful! (doesnt mention he has 4 equipped switches between them each encounter)

Devs: uhhh what?.. okay.. *decrease arquebuss damage*

Normal user: hey what gives my ranger is too weak

Concerned user: noob, just use 4 arquebusses each times, thats how you play.

 

and there you have it

[PaleElfDrifter]

I think I made what I want to say quite clear. The rest is just denial and excuses. I think it's the value and culture gap thing.

And I got some new informations that makes me happy. It's not a waste of time if some people want to try that move.

I learn something new, because I don't have people like that around my world.

Now I realise why vedio or computer games are considered comparatively low. Maybe it's the people who play it are more likely to be...that kind of people. Something like kid's behaviors. No wonder some people consider games is childish.

I grew up alone and I love computer games.

How I love computer game is not like some pus sy worshipers can't get the pus sy which is what they really want, and so they just play games to kill time.

It doesn't make me feel good to know people in this team is awful.

I don't mean I would give up and not to be a gamer anymore, but I prefer to spend more time in my other habits.

Joke around with your life. I want to be a serious person.

 

By the way, I think I made what I want to say quite clear. The rest is just denial and excuses. I think it's the value and culture gap thing.

If you considered I don't reply makes you feel you won or you are right, so be it.

Edited June 1, 2015 by PaleElfDrifter

[Nakia]

Haha Nakia you sure poked into the hornet nest. Tbh i dont see any problems with any tactic, its a single player game, and it should be versatile. The actual problem is that devs listen to the weirdest whines. And people who whine about game balance do it with these exploits in mind.

 

Here is a hypothetical example

 

Concerned user1,2,3: Arquebusses are too powerful! (doesnt mention he has 4 equipped switches between them each encounter)

Devs: uhhh what?.. okay.. *decrease arquebuss damage*

Normal user: hey what gives my ranger is too weak

Concerned user: noob, just use 4 arquebusses each times, thats how you play.

 

and there you have it

Thank you for the laugh I needed one.  

[Gorbag]

I can't really read it all. It's not my language. Sorry for that you type that much. Can you cut down something if I misunderstood what you mean?

What you mean is that "AI is not smart enough" makes you are allowed to do this lure thing?

But if the AI is too smart, they would beat players. Mobs are numberous than player's team.

It's not developers can't make a smart AI. AI can play chess, and computer game is not harder than that.

And...you said it like a student cheat in a exam, and excuses that the teacher didn't notice.

 

And the ways I mentioned in my first post is actual used in a online game I know. Allow players to cheat is not fair to other players in online game.

And I knew they don't fix it is because this is a single player game. Maybe for some people can only pass the game in this way.

So why don't they just change the difficulty?

 

Oh, well, language barriers aren't funny.

Let me try to get you up to speed with what the problem is:

It's not about whether or not other players should stop using the "luring" tactic because it's cheating. How other people play the game is their business, they may even use cheat codes to win, that's entirely beside the point. We are not competing against each other in an online game and we are not taking a test. Everyone plays however he/she wants.

The discussion is about whether or not Obsidian should improve the game's AI so as take "luring" into account.

On one hand you have the argument that "luring" is a completely viable and perfectly legitimate strategy: you find a choke-point (like a door) lure your enemies to it and start facing them one by one, instead of taking on the whole group.

On the other hand you have the argument that the AI is too stupid to realize that it's being lured and slaughtered one by one, and does nothing to prevent it. 

The way I see it, those arguments aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

 

EDIT: Never mind. I didn't see that "Joke around with your life. I want to be a serious person." thing when I wrote this.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Gorbag

[Valorian]

 

On the other hand you have the argument that the AI is too stupid to realize that it's being lured and slaughtered one by one, and does nothing to prevent it. 

 

 

 

The problem, as explained before, is that at a certain point the script instructs the creature or everyone but one creature: "Now go back". So after you kill the only monster that chased you all the way, your per encounter abilities, talents and endurance points are restored. For this reason they should chase as a group to the end of the universe, and shouldn't desert the PC and his companions ever.

[PaleElfDrifter]

 

Thank you for the laugh I needed one.  

 

 

What? You sad? It's really inconvenient to talk in typing that people can't see their faces and tones.

I felt bad if I made you felt bad, so I replied.

 

I don't know is the lure thing you mean is exactly the lure thing I mean.

Got surrounded on a ground or triggered a trap the first time if the player is not care enought to see the clue (or aware enough to avoid the danger). If the player can't still win in that bad situation, failed and retry to lure the mobs to fight in the player's spot is fine.

What I mean is to lure the mobs far away to make them return back, and the last one mob hasn't. So that the player's team can deal the mobs one by one.

If the player's team doesn't have the powerful ability, spell, or class to win, then the player can change the difficulty. Not doing this kid's cheating thing.

 

Right, I recall it now. Kids like to cheat in games to prove themselves. Try to glance your poker card or something like that, small cheating. And they are stubborn that they can't admit they are less good in something.

Sigh...so maybe people are right. It's not the graphic or sub culture thing that they consider this is low. I always like stories in games. I even considered some stories are close to compete with novels and movies.

Edited June 1, 2015 by PaleElfDrifter