Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Ineth]

 

[citation needed]

 

The article was less about the lack of representation, and more about the vicious backlash to complaints regarding it

 

 

That's great, first Meshugger fails at lit 101, now you do the same with grammar.

 

"Vicious" was a qualifier of the backlash. I didn't accuse anyone of "vicious motivations".

 

The "qualifier" you chose intrinsically refers to motivations.

 

From Oxford Dictionaries:

 

Definition of vicious in English:

adjective

1 Deliberately cruel or violent

Edited June 5, 2015 by Ineth

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

[citation needed]

 

The article was less about the lack of representation, and more about the vicious backlash to complaints regarding it

 

 

That's great, first Meshugger fails at lit 101, now you do the same with grammar.

 

"Vicious" was a qualifier of the backlash. I didn't accuse anyone of "vicious motivations".

 

The "qualifier" you chose intrinsically refers to motivations.

 

From Oxford Dictionaries:

 

Definition of vicious in English:

adjective

1 Deliberately cruel or violent

 

 

I stand corrected.

 

(Well played, sir. Well played indeed.)

Edited June 6, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Nonek]

At the end of the day if the people whom regard the Witcher 3 as "problematic" really think it is, then there is a very simple solution: Boycott the game and act upon their moral indignation.

 

Pity because they'll be missing one of the best games of the last few years, both original, internally consistent, detailed, and with a very interesting setting grounded in Slavic (not Anglo Saxon) mythology. However if they feel that the presence of so many Caucasian people is simply too repellent, and that there are not enough token representations of different ethnicities of the Witcher world, then they must take the high road and set an example, boycott CDPR and deny them a sale. Behave in a principled and consistent manner with their beliefs.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Nonek

[luzarius]

Did LGBT affect dragon age inquisition sales?

 

Yes, I've bought every bioware game to date, but Inquisition is the first Bioware game I got a refund for. Too much LGBT and far too much feminism.

Examples:

 

- Too much shaved heads on women, as if Orlesian women don't value their hair, ridiculous.

- Cassandra Pentaghast made to look like a transgender, a man trying to be woman.  Her original concept art does look feminine however.

- Josephine hit hard with the ugly stick, little effort put into her 3d model, 3d modeling amateur obviously designed josephine.

- No brothels.

- No sexualized NPC's like desire demons.

 

LGBT did affect Inquisition sales by alienating me, one of the most hardcore fans of the DA universe.

 

Let's compare Dragon Age Inquisition to Spartacus Blood and Sand.  In this TV series all sexuality are represented.  If you notice, the straight and bisexual women are drop dead gorgeous and stunning. When you give the straight people eye candy, they're not gonna care if there is LGBT content as well.  But when you remove the beautiful females from the game, a straight gamer is going to feel surrounded by the LGBT & feminist concepts, hence why I got a refund for Inquisition.

 

Making Inquisition super feminist and super gay did affect sales, I know many families who didn't let their teens play Inquisition, but they did let them play Skyrim & Witcher.

 

Witcher 3 gets my stamp of approval.  The $59.99 I got refunded from Inquisition I used to purchase Pillars of Eternity and the left over to help with purchase of Witcher 3 and I'm loving every second of it.

 

Witcher 3 Metacritic 93

Pillars of Eternity Metacritic 90

Dragon Age Inquisition 85

 

Long live Obsidian & CDProjectRED, rejoice for Bioware is dead.

Edited June 6, 2015 by luzarius

[Volourn]

"Witcher 3 Metacritic 93

Pillars of Eternity Metacritic 90

Dragon Age Inquisition 85

 

Long live Obsidian & CDProjectRED, rejoice for Bioware is dead."

 

Yet DA3 has outsold PE by MILES. LMAO

[luzarius]

"Witcher 3 Metacritic 93

Pillars of Eternity Metacritic 90

Dragon Age Inquisition 85

 

Long live Obsidian & CDProjectRED, rejoice for Bioware is dead."

 

Yet DA3 has outsold PE by MILES. LMAO

 

In regards to sales, you're comparing a game that's in its third installment and on the consoles vs a game that is only on PC and in it's first installment.

 

Also, if Inquisition was a success sales wise, why doesn't EA share their sales figures for DAI? Hmmm?  Most likely due to DAI failing to meet expectations.

Edited June 6, 2015 by luzarius

[Volourn]

Because those expectations are probbaly sell 1000 billion copies. But, hey, that doesn't change the fact that DA3 outsold PE. That's a fact and I say that as someone who likes PE more but  your nonsense is just that nonsense.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Did LGBT affect dragon age inquisition sales?

 

Yes, I've bought every bioware game to date, but Inquisition is the first Bioware game I got a refund for. Too much LGBT and far too much feminism.

Examples:

 

- Too much shaved heads on women, as if Orlesian women don't value their hair, ridiculous.

- Cassandra Pentaghast made to look like a transgender, a man trying to be woman.  Her original concept art does look feminine however.

- Josephine hit hard with the ugly stick, little effort put into her 3d model, 3d modeling amateur obviously designed josephine.

- No brothels.

- No sexualized NPC's like desire demons.

 

LGBT did affect Inquisition sales by alienating me, one of the most hardcore fans of the DA universe.

 

Let's compare Dragon Age Inquisition to Spartacus Blood and Sand.  In this TV series all sexuality are represented.  If you notice, the straight and bisexual women are drop dead gorgeous and stunning. When you give the straight people eye candy, they're not gonna care if there is LGBT content as well.  But when you remove the beautiful females from the game, a straight gamer is going to feel surrounded by the LGBT & feminist concepts, hence why I got a refund for Inquisition.

 

Making Inquisition super feminist and super gay did affect sales, I know many families who didn't let their teens play Inquisition, but they did let them play Skyrim & Witcher.

 

Witcher 3 gets my stamp of approval.  The $59.99 I got refunded from Inquisition I used to purchase Pillars of Eternity and the left over to help with purchase of Witcher 3 and I'm loving every second of it.

 

Witcher 3 Metacritic 93

Pillars of Eternity Metacritic 90

Dragon Age Inquisition 85

 

Long live Obsidian & CDProjectRED, rejoice for Bioware is dead.

Looking through this thread today I've seen the same arguments about feminism and SJ bull**** that pop up everytime someone says something stupid, but this is the dumbest post I've read in this thread.

 

DAI was not bad because of feminism or gays, it was bad because it was a bloated single-player MMO with bad quests and awful combat. Both previous games, which were ugly as Sarah Jessica Parker, were better because the combat was better and there were enough quests that had interesting hooks to keep me slogging through them.

 

And comparing ratings derived from review scores in a gg thread? Hot damn that is stupid.

 

We get it, you didn't get the waifu you wanted to **** and you're butthurt about it. This thread isn't about that, and as butthurt as some sections of gg have gotten about every ass with a blog who says something mean about them, gg isn't about this either. Kindly **** off and take your ramblings about a ****-tier game with you.

[luzarius]

Because those expectations are probbaly sell 1000 billion copies. But, hey, that doesn't change the fact that DA3 outsold PE. That's a fact and I say that as someone who likes PE more but  your nonsense is just that nonsense.

 

*sigh* Let me help you out here.  You are correct, EA/Bioware wanted to sell as many copies as Skyrim. How do I know that? Because Bioware themselves acknowledged they wanted to be more like Skyrim in countless posts they've made.  Skyrim sold roughly 20 million copies over it's lifespan.  If a company doesn't release sales figures it means the product didn't meet expectations. By not meeting expectations it means they invested a lot of money without the projected return.  Did they turn a profit? Sure, but did they meet their goal? No.

 

Questions like this arise: did-dragon-age-inquisitions-lgbt-characters-impact-games-sales

 

 

KaineParker said,

 

DAI was not bad because of feminism or gays,

By saying that it means:

 

* You like transgenders in gaming

* You enjoy seeing women with shaved heads and you find it very immersive.

* You approve of censorship in the form of removing brothels & sexual npc's like desire demons when they were present in DAO & DA2.

 

Is this correct?

 

 

s bad because it was a bloated single-player MMO with bad quests and awful combat.

 

I agree with this.  Unlike you, I'm looking at what you type with a clear head.

 

And comparing ratings derived from review scores in a gg thread? Hot damn that is stupid.

 

You lost me here.

 

 

We get it, you didn't get the waifu you wanted to **** and you're butthurt about it.

It's not about that. It's about LGBT & feminists purposely pissing of straight people, they did it on purpose. There is no other logical reason than personal revenge. I don't say this lightly. If you want to see examples of women drawn or designed properly, look at Calisca in POE or the women in Witcher 3.

Edited June 6, 2015 by luzarius

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

By saying that it means: 

* You like transgenders in gaming

* You enjoy seeing women with shaved heads and you find it very immersive.

* You approve of censorship in the form of removing brothels & sexual npc's like desire demons when they were present in DAO & DA2.

 

Is this correct?

It's Bioware's game and they should make it how they want to. Supporting artistic freedom means being ok with decisions made by developers, even if you don't like them. Personally I don't care because I play RPGs to kill stuff and not to simulate a sex life.

 

I agree with this.  Unlike you, I'm looking at what you type with a clear head.

Given your butthurt over no waifu, I don't think you have a clear head.

 

This site may be able to help some of the frustration you have: http://www.eharmony.com/

 

You lost me here.

GG is about how ****ty games journalism is and you're using reviews derived from games journalism to support your argument that attractive women result in better games.

 

It's not about that. It's about LGBT & feminists purposely pissing of straight people, they did it on purpose. There is no other logical reason than personal revenge. I don't say this lightly. If you want to see examples of women drawn or designed properly, look at Calisca in POE or the women in Witcher 3.

Do you have a single fact to back that up? Because that's a /pol/-tier conspiracy theory right there.

[luzarius]

 

By saying that it means: 

* You like transgenders in gaming

* You enjoy seeing women with shaved heads and you find it very immersive.

* You approve of censorship in the form of removing brothels & sexual npc's like desire demons when they were present in DAO & DA2.

 

Is this correct?

It's Bioware's game and they should make it how they want to. Supporting artistic freedom means being ok with decisions made by developers, even if you don't like them. Personally I don't care because I play RPGs to kill stuff and not to simulate a sex life.

 

I agree with this.  Unlike you, I'm looking at what you type with a clear head.

Given your butthurt over no waifu, I don't think you have a clear head.

 

This site may be able to help some of the frustration you have: http://www.eharmony.com/

 

You lost me here.

GG is about how ****ty games journalism is and you're using reviews derived from games journalism to support your argument that attractive women result in better games.

 

It's not about that. It's about LGBT & feminists purposely pissing of straight people, they did it on purpose. There is no other logical reason than personal revenge. I don't say this lightly. If you want to see examples of women drawn or designed properly, look at Calisca in POE or the women in Witcher 3.

Do you have a single fact to back that up? Because that's a /pol/-tier conspiracy theory right there.

 

 

Before I continue debating wtih you.  Have you played DAO & DA2?  If you haven't then we're going to continue being on a completely different wave length, it would be pointless to debate with you, if you haven't play the Dragon Age series. Let me at least try then.

 

Scoring a 90+ on metacritic means different game reviewers from across the world have agreed that this game is solid and worth playing.  Are you trying to tell me that when a game scores 90+ on metacritic that is has no value?

 

You are also implying that I want some kind of dating simulator from DAI?  When I watch hollywood movies with romance, does that mean I'm looking for some kind of dating simulator in that movie?  Like I said, if you didn't enjoy DAO & DA2 we're gonna be on a different wave length.

 

As for objective evidence proving that LGBT & feminist have purposely made cassandra & josephine horribly ugly & mannish, I have none, but what do you expect when a writing team is made up of LGBT & militant feminists?  Dragon Age Origins & Dragon Age 2 have always had attractive female romance options for straight male gamers, so naturally I'd expect the same in the third installment, not a bait and switch. In a game with so much politically correct BS, it's no surprise that the straight male romance options would be affected by the LGBT & Feminist agenda in some way.

 

If I were to design a female as a romance option for straight male gamers, I would never in a million years model her as a man.

 

 

 

KaineParker said,

 

I've played DAO and DA2.

Both had the gays.

 

I have no problem with any of the LGBT companions in the DA series. That was never the issue.

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by luzarius

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

By saying that it means: 

* You like transgenders in gaming

* You enjoy seeing women with shaved heads and you find it very immersive.

* You approve of censorship in the form of removing brothels & sexual npc's like desire demons when they were present in DAO & DA2.

 

Is this correct?

It's Bioware's game and they should make it how they want to. Supporting artistic freedom means being ok with decisions made by developers, even if you don't like them. Personally I don't care because I play RPGs to kill stuff and not to simulate a sex life.

 

I agree with this.  Unlike you, I'm looking at what you type with a clear head.

Given your butthurt over no waifu, I don't think you have a clear head.

 

This site may be able to help some of the frustration you have: http://www.eharmony.com/

 

You lost me here.

GG is about how ****ty games journalism is and you're using reviews derived from games journalism to support your argument that attractive women result in better games.

 

It's not about that. It's about LGBT & feminists purposely pissing of straight people, they did it on purpose. There is no other logical reason than personal revenge. I don't say this lightly. If you want to see examples of women drawn or designed properly, look at Calisca in POE or the women in Witcher 3.

Do you have a single fact to back that up? Because that's a /pol/-tier conspiracy theory right there.

 

 

Before I continue debating wtih you.  Have you played DAO & DA2?  If you haven't then we're going to continue being on a completely different wave length, it would be pointless to debate with you, if you haven't play the Dragon Age series.

 

I've played DAO and DA2.

 

 

Both had the gays

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I've played DAO and DA2.

 

 

Both had the gays

 

 

And were rather terrible as well, for reasons totally unrelated to that.

 

Still, watching luzarius work his mojo is priceless ("but don't you UNDERSTAND, it's caused by THE VENGEFUL GAYS, why can't you SEE IT, it's like I'm surrounded by BLIND IDIOTS"). I'm seriously tempted to open a troll account of my own now.

Edited June 6, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[ShadySands]

This is my troll account

 

I'm just not very good -- at anything, really

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I'm just not very good -- at anything, really

 

...Not even at self-criticism?

[BruceVC]

Illiterate morons, touch harsh.

 

Illiterate morons, touch harsh.

Not really, you regularly call me stupid and have even claimed I have syphilis  which has rotted my brain due to my relationships with  strippers/escorts ( despite the fact syphilis is curable ) 

 

But guys alum does makes several valid points, these are really about people making generalizations around articles and people trying to understand nuances

 

I would encourage all of us to take this advice constructively

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I would encourage all of us to take this advice constructively

 

 

In all fairness, it's kind of hard to take being called an illiterate moron very constructively, I imagine.

 

I did not contribute very efficiently to establishing an atmosphere that fosters constructive discussion. I believe apologies are in order on my part.

Edited June 6, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[BruceVC]

 

 

I would encourage all of us to take this advice constructively

 

 

In all fairness, it's kind of hard to take being called an illiterate moron very constructively, I imagine.

 

I did not contribute very efficiently to establishing an atmosphere that fosters constructive discussion. I believe apologies are in order on my part.

 

Well I respect the fact you feel the need to apologize , I don't think it was necessary ( and yes I know your apology wasn't directed at me )

 

The issue with this thread at times  lacking constructive discussion has very little to do with you ....but more to do with the general intransigence from  some people around certain topics

 

 

And that's key, there is constructive debate at times on this thread it just depends on what is being discussed

[Fighter]

If you let SJWs have their way they'll make all the "problematic" elements like the new 'N' word. Drawing a beautiful sexualized woman (etc.) will become like drawing a jew stereotype caricature. So not censored by government but in practice you can't anyway.

 

PS. For the potential idiot. No, I'm not saying you should throw the word **** around like every other word, etc.

[Nonek]

 

Illiterate morons, touch harsh.

 

Not really, you regularly call me stupid and have even claimed I have syphilis which has rotted my brain due to my relationships with  prostitutes (despite the fact syphilis is curable if treated early.) 

 

But guys Alum does makes several valid points, these are really about people making generalizations around articles and people trying to understand nuances.

 

I would encourage all of us to take this advice constructively.

 

 

You have accused me of being a liar, grandstanding, pursuing a false agenda, spewing rhetoric and various other things Bruce. I have simply responded in kind and honestly am bewildered as to how you cannot understand various simple points made, have to have answers repeated to you again and again, and have your hypocrisy explained to you. Thus obviously I wonder if there is some impediment to normal rational debate at work, I am not saying this for my own health but for yours.

 

If you're going to troll, expect to get trolled in return.

 

As for advice from Mr Trioxid, nobody needs any, we're all intelligent adults here and the Anglo Saxons are Slavs, and insert token minorities in a game articles, are both worth arguing against for several reasons. Mr Chmielarz article does also raise several good factual points, despite the ending falling off into hectoring.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Nonek

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Mr Chmielarz article does also raise several good factual points, despite the ending falling off into hectoring.

 

 

...And the beginning engaging in a bit of deliberate misrepresentation.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Illiterate morons, touch harsh.

 

Not really, you regularly call me stupid and have even claimed I have syphilis which has rotted my brain due to my relationships with  prostitutes (despite the fact syphilis is curable if treated early.) 

 

But guys Alum does makes several valid points, these are really about people making generalizations around articles and people trying to understand nuances.

 

I would encourage all of us to take this advice constructively.

 

 

You have accused me of being a liar, grandstanding, pursuing a false agenda, spewing rhetoric and various other things Bruce. 

 

Yes but the difference is you have demonstrated all those things, not all the time but particularly on the GG thread

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

No. No one knows what these structures are and what makes them racist.

 

[citation needed]

 

Note: "my ignorance" does not count as a credible source.

 

Stop sidestepping. What are these structures? Define them. Why are they racist? Saying "just acknowledge them" is way too lazy for anyone to take that argument seriously.

 

 

Says the guy who's too lazy to ****ing google the phrase "structural racism".

 

Examples of such.

 

 

Come on, they are behind paywalls. I want to hear your opinion about it, what is a racist structure, how do you measure it and what methods should be used to change them?

 

And as for the message, he is openly declaring that white people should create games for minorities in mind as well. He acknowledges that the game is made by a polish team based on slavic folklore but he still manages to shoehorn in that it shouldn't matter, minority characters should still be in. Either he is quite dumb to understand what he is demanding or he is into something quite more sinister. 

 

Nonek is right though, they should follow through and demand a boycot instead.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Come on, they are behind paywalls. I want to hear your opinion about it, what is a racist structure, how do you measure it and what methods should be used to change them?

 

 

Could we have this discussion at a time when exams aren't looming above my head?

 

 

And as for the message, he is openly declaring that white people should create games for minorities in mind as well. He acknowledges that the game is made by a polish team based on slavic folklore but he still manages to shoehorn in that it shouldn't matter, minority characters should still be in. 

 

 

Well, that just sounds like good business sense to me. I mean, it's gotta widen the appeal, there are people who would drop good bucks on a game with decent minority representation on ideological grounds alone. I don't think the advice "keep in mind potential customers who are minorities when designing a game" is fundamentally unsound.

 

Also, he points out that the game world has Zerrikanians who could be present for any number of reasons ("mercenary company looking for employment in a war-torn land" sounds reasonable to me, it's not like there's setting information it's in conflict with).

 

Basically, my concern with the casual dismissal of "hey, it's a game based on Slavic folklore, you can't have minorities or they will inevitably feel shoehorned in" is that, well, despite adolescent bull**** like TW1's sex cards, the writers at CD Projekt have largely proven to be decent storytellers. I think "no, it's impossible for them to write minority characters who don't feel tacked on" is selling them short. I'm pretty sure they could find a solution if they wanted to.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Come on, they are behind paywalls. I want to hear your opinion about it, what is a racist structure, how do you measure it and what methods should be used to change them?

 

 

Could we have this discussion at a time when exams aren't looming above my head?

 

Basically, my concern with the casual dismissal of "hey, it's a game based on Slavic folklore, you can't have minorities or they will inevitably feel shoehorned in" is that, well, despite adolescent bull**** like TW1's sex cards, the writers at CD Projekt have largely proven to be decent storytellers. I think "no, it's impossible for them to write minority characters who don't feel tacked on" is selling them short. I'm pretty sure they could find a solution if they wanted to.

 

 

This last paragraph is the most relevant and I hope people read it

 

This view is similar to mine on the matter