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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

It does ensure that his opinions aren't taken seriously, and basically guarantees that the designers won't listen to him either. I'd care about that if I spent so much time posting on a message board.

I may not like the way @Luckmann expresses his opinion at times, but he has interesting things to say, that should be taken into consideration.

 

In fact, I respect that he still frequents the forums discussing about the game, rather than not care anymore.

 

However, a few balance tweaks are not an overhaul, at least not in the way some of us want it. I believe we have the best chances to see major design changes (if any at all) applied with the expansion. Most definitely at PoE2.

 

Mind me, I am satisfied with the state of the game as it is, but I would like a few of the many suggestions presented in these here forums see the light of day.

Edited by constantine

Matilda is a Natlan woman born and raised in Old Vailia. She managed to earn status as a mercenary for being a professional who gets the job done, more so when the job involves putting her excellent fighting abilities to good use.

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When the game is balanced.

 

Wf5gaC6.png

 

            - Sawyer-Sama! What is best in life?

 

vZTqtQy.png

 

            - To crush the exploits, to see badwrongfun driven before you, and hear the victory cries of muh balance.

 

 

I agree with Josh on most mechanical point and find your constant complaints about him to be ridiculous, but that's a ****ing awesome portrait! I'd love to see the rest of the PoE team given a similar treatment.

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"Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic."

-Josh Sawyer

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With all the moving parts and interaction between aspects of system and then between the systems themselves, if it is done correctly, there will be many balance patches to come.  If they want their new rule set to become something significant and lasting, that is.  It's the foundation of the game, making that foundation as solid as it can be should be a very high priority if they intent to build more content on top of it.

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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

If you haven't checked it out again, the patch is up on GOG now.

 

@ Jojobob, yes I get this feeling with many games. I hate learning the mechanics and creating builds and characters with a certain goal in mind only to have that completely borked due to rebalancing patches. I wish games were released with much more attention to 'balance' in the first place, and patching involved minor tweaks and bug fixes instead. Of course, if wishes were horses...

 

 

Sheesh, must've been minutes ago. I've been watching it like a hawk.

 

 

HURRRR I'M A DURRRRR BLARGH BLARGH HURF HURF HURF.

 

 

I don't detest balance, as you'd know if you weren't a poster-child for retroactive abortion. Sawyer's obsession with balance is a well-know joke. The kind of thing people that aren't mentally deficient do, without, get this, without getting offended. A revolutionary concept, I know! laughing.gif

 

I may be annoyed by the way they're prioritizing and I may be frustrated by certain aspects of the patch notes, and I well and truly hate (and yes, this is actually the correct use of hate, as opposed to when people go on tirades claiming that I hate Sawyer) the fact that the very clear, very well-known, near-universally recognized issues with the Attribute Bonuses continues to go unaddressed while the CNPC:s get "fixed" by screwing with their Attributes instead, but the goal of balance itself and the fact that Obsidian actually cares enough about trying to build a balanced fundament to expand upon is actually great.

 

Of that let there be no doubt. I do not share the obsession with trying to prevent "exploits" and trying to control the way which people play games, but if anything, my own obsession with balance itself rivals Sawyer's.

 

 

 

 

When the game is balanced.

 

Wf5gaC6.png

 

            - Sawyer-Sama! What is best in life?

 

vZTqtQy.png

 

            - To crush the exploits, to see badwrongfun driven before you, and hear the victory cries of muh balance.

 

 

I agree with Josh on most mechanical point and find your constant complaints about him to be ridiculous, but that's a ****ing awesome portrait! I'd love to see the rest of the PoE team given a similar treatment.

 

 

It's available in the custom portraits thread. I scaled it down to fit with a dialogue format for the joke. I would love to see an Avellone and Cain version, at least. laughing.gif A professional artist (I forget his name) at the RPGCodex made it. I echo the voices in the RPGCodex thread - it's almost bizarre that the man hasn't secured an industry job yet. I'm not sure it fits the style of PoE "just right", and I guess following a style is a big part of getting industry jobs, but damn he makes nice stuff.

 

Edit:

 

WHAT

 

What is this where does it come from?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/portraits-for-poe-thread.98127/page-3

 

http://www.jasonseow.com/poeportraits

 

Check out his other work, too. Also, notice the scales on Sawyer's armour. :lol:

Edited by Luckmann
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It's available in the custom portraits thread. I scaled it down to fit with a dialogue format for the joke. I would love to see an Avellone and Cain version, at least. laughing.gif A professional artist (I forget his name) at the RPGCodex made it. I echo the voices in the RPGCodex thread - it's almost bizarre that the man hasn't secured an industry job yet. I'm not sure it fits the style of PoE "just right", and I guess following a style is a big part of getting industry jobs, but damn he makes nice stuff.

 

Edit:

 

WHAT

 

What is this where does it come from?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/portraits-for-poe-thread.98127/page-3

 

http://www.jasonseow.com/poeportraits

 

Check out his other work, too. Also, notice the scales on Sawyer's armour. :lol:

 

 

Yeah, I'd want to see Cain, Avellone, and all the leads as well (Adler, Brennecke, ect.).

"Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic."

-Josh Sawyer

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It's available in the custom portraits thread. I scaled it down to fit with a dialogue format for the joke. I would love to see an Avellone and Cain version, at least. laughing.gif A professional artist (I forget his name) at the RPGCodex made it. I echo the voices in the RPGCodex thread - it's almost bizarre that the man hasn't secured an industry job yet. I'm not sure it fits the style of PoE "just right", and I guess following a style is a big part of getting industry jobs, but damn he makes nice stuff.

 

Edit:

 

WHAT

 

What is this where does it come from?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/portraits-for-poe-thread.98127/page-3

 

http://www.jasonseow.com/poeportraits

 

Check out his other work, too. Also, notice the scales on Sawyer's armour. :lol:

 

 

Yeah, I'd want to see Cain, Avellone, and all the leads as well (Adler, Brennecke, ect.).

 

 

We should start a pool and have them commissioned. :lol:

 

It's too bad Kaz has a steady job.. well.. uh, not for him, of course, but it would be fun if he freelanced and took commissions. 100% in-art-style portraits custom-made. Now, if only I was a millionaire..

t50aJUd.jpg

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It's available in the custom portraits thread. I scaled it down to fit with a dialogue format for the joke. I would love to see an Avellone and Cain version, at least. laughing.gif A professional artist (I forget his name) at the RPGCodex made it. I echo the voices in the RPGCodex thread - it's almost bizarre that the man hasn't secured an industry job yet. I'm not sure it fits the style of PoE "just right", and I guess following a style is a big part of getting industry jobs, but damn he makes nice stuff.

 

Edit:

 

WHAT

 

What is this where does it come from?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/portraits-for-poe-thread.98127/page-3

 

http://www.jasonseow.com/poeportraits

 

Check out his other work, too. Also, notice the scales on Sawyer's armour. :lol:

 

 

Yeah, I'd want to see Cain, Avellone, and all the leads as well (Adler, Brennecke, ect.).

 

 

We should start a pool and have them commissioned. :lol:

 

It's too bad Kaz has a steady job.. well.. uh, not for him, of course, but it would be fun if he freelanced and took commissions. 100% in-art-style portraits custom-made. Now, if only I was a millionaire..

 

 

It's not like artists make a lot. ;)

You'd be surprised how low commission rates are on average for the skilled folks on deviantart.

 

I know I wouldn't want to work for that.

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I don't get op. All he is doing is making his own gaming time misserable. Just play it and enjoy the story and don't worry about these silly balance fixes. You do not need perfect build to enjoy this game. I did perfectly fine even if i did not lower any stat below 10 like all these silly " optimal character guides" seem to suggest.  ;) I did not solo or play on PotD though, but i figured that i'd save those experiences for a rainy day.

 

And I'm quite happy that I managed to play the game first time before the major nerfs to experience gains and so forth. Had tons of fun and no regrets!

Edited by Carados
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I'm still waiting for 1.05 to come out on GOG!

If you haven't checked it out again, the patch is up on GOG now.

 

@ Jojobob, yes I get this feeling with many games. I hate learning the mechanics and creating builds and characters with a certain goal in mind only to have that completely borked due to rebalancing patches. I wish games were released with much more attention to 'balance' in the first place, and patching involved minor tweaks and bug fixes instead. Of course, if wishes were horses...

 

Cheers dude, I've been downloading it repeatedly the last few days due to attempting to try out GOG Galaxy which then borked the game after trying to add it and then repeated downloads having issues.  Finally working now. :D

"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

 

w59aZ4T.jpg

 

Oh, wow, that's amazing. I've never seen anybody do something stupid, get called out on it, and then claim it was just a joke and it's stupid to say anything before. Especially not on the Internet. You must be a genius.

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Your Sawyer-hate is old hat. It's also gotten to such an obsessive and repetitive level that I feel you should really look into it.

 

w59aZ4T.jpg

 

Oh, wow, that's amazing. I've never seen anybody do something stupid, get called out on it, and then claim it was just a joke and it's stupid to say anything before. Especially not on the Internet. You must be a genius.

 

 

And I've never seen anyone with such an increased sense of self-importance have said joke go right over their heads in some misguided attempt to stay edgy.

 

Oh, wait.

t50aJUd.jpg

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I don't get op. All he is doing is making his own gaming time misserable. Just play it and enjoy the story and don't worry about these silly balance fixes. You do not need perfect build to enjoy this game. I did perfectly fine even if i did not lower any stat below 10 like all these silly " optimal character guides" seem to suggest.  ;) I did not solo or play on PotD though, but i figured that i'd save those experiences for a rainy day.

 

And I'm quite happy that I managed to play the game first time before the major nerfs to experience gains and so forth. Had tons of fun and no regrets!

 

I have uh... similar game-play-leanings as the OP, and in my case it's not so much as needing to make the perfect build-- you are correct in implying that creating an actual "bad" or unplayable character would be pretty difficult (maybe impossible? Maybe?). It's really more of the annoyance of having the rules of the game as you (the player) understand them change mid-playthrough. Or having the rules being incorrectly stated (like interrupting blows was originally), or opaque (like bloody slaughter still is).

 

There are certainly drawbacks to being a control-freak, so to speak, but there is also a certain enjoyment to be found in optimally managing, well, everything. Would you like to hear about my five-year plan? (This is a Civ 5 reference--not an actual offer, and I am probably only joking about having a five-year plan. Probably).

 

But now I am actually curious about running a party through the game that has been optimized to be perfectly terrible for their specific roles. That could actually be pretty fun, especially from a RP perspective, and the nice thing about this game is that yes, they would probably still be able to handily (or at least semi-handily) beat the game.

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I don't get op. All he is doing is making his own gaming time misserable. Just play it and enjoy the story and don't worry about these silly balance fixes. You do not need perfect build to enjoy this game. I did perfectly fine even if i did not lower any stat below 10 like all these silly " optimal character guides" seem to suggest.  ;) I did not solo or play on PotD though, but i figured that i'd save those experiences for a rainy day.

 

And I'm quite happy that I managed to play the game first time before the major nerfs to experience gains and so forth. Had tons of fun and no regrets!

I like challenge - so yes bugs that make the game easier like the stat stacking bug, which I encountered, and another bug where my Battle-Forged was also stacking and not wearing off, which I encountered, tend to bother me. Further - if the game is far easier in terms of balance than the devs really meant it to be - I want to play an iteration of the patched game that represents a more precise level of difficulty to their original vision, and if those difficultly goal posts change on every patch that is annoying (especially when, in terms of experience, your character is a higher level at a stage on the game than they should be - you can't just undo that with patching). If you're keen on story and don't care squat about difficulty then good for you, but that's not me. Also, some of this stuff should have really maybe been handled before release rather than me waiting a month or so for a proper difficulty tweak as well as resolving many of the bugs which were making the game easier.

 

As someone else in the know earlier said however (too lazy to read back), it seems like 1.05 was the major overhaul, so I needn't worry about huge changes to the difficulty from here on in. I'm playing solo PotD right now on 1.05 and it seems to be working well. I was just slightly concerned this current vein of massive patching would continue for some time but now that doesn't seem likely at all now, which is great.

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I haven't seen any official message about that yet, so I still have my hopes up. Constitution is the only stat that only has one effect and I'm sure that sooner or later Obsidian will change something about it. Possible solutions are already there (like recovery penalty reduction); they just have to implement them. In fact, the game mechanics for that are also there already (fighter's armored grace talent does exactly this), they just need to be applied to constitution aswell.

 

If interrupt gets a buff, then all other attributes will be pretty much perfect, so I wouldn't say that all hope is lost.

 

 

I think that saying that CON has only one effect is understating it a little.  It affects END, Health, and the FORT save (along with Might).  That said, that's not very much and not really enough to get players to not dump some CON at creation.

 

They could have the FORT save come 100% from CON, but I don't think that that would be enough to change peoples' minds about the stat.

 

Here are a couple of off the cuff ideas for things that CON could affect in a rational way.

 

1. Allow CON to positively or negatively affect fatigue (both versions).  Characters with low CON's would get worn out more quickly than average.  This would be on top of the Athletics skill.  Low CON characters would need more Athletics skill to offset the low CON fatigue penalties.  And visa-versa, high CON characters would need less Athletics to maintain the same level of fatigue.

 

2. CON could affect a character's resistance to poison and disease effects in some way.  Reduce the length of time affected perhaps?

Edited by Crucis
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Con bonus should be an integer. Just drop base endurance per level by 2 or 3 and make it so every point above 10 increases endurance per level by 1. Every point below 10 reduces endurance per level by 1.

Edited by Shevek
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This may not be the most helpful way to rebalance the attributes, but what I'd love to see is some 'special' penalties and bonuses for extraordinarily high/low attributes. 

 

E.g. extra low con (below 6?) could introduce a chance for fortitude hits against the character to turn into crits, like a negative version of Merciless Gaze; extra high per (above 20?) could add a percentage bonus to the range of weapons, and so on. 

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Quick switch is most likely going to be "rebalanced" at some point, since right now it completely bypasses recovery time in exchange for a 0.5s delay and needing to have two weapon sets (a very minor disadvantage) and a lot of tedious micromanagement, so probably you shouldn't build around it if you're concerned with obsolescence.

 

I think it might be stealthily fixed in some update, like how in 1.05 they inserted "Modal abilities now have activation and deactivation timers." which meant you could no longer activate modals right before an attack for the benefits, and turn them off right after to avoid the penalties.

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Con bonus should be an integer. Just drop base endurance per level by 2 or 3 and make it so every point above 10 increases endurance per level by 1. Every point below 10 reduces endurance per level by 1.

 

It should be both flat integer and percentage. The system isn't built around thresholds, it needs to be scaleable unless we want to rework functionality completely.

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Con bonus should be an integer. Just drop base endurance per level by 2 or 3 and make it so every point above 10 increases endurance per level by 1. Every point below 10 reduces endurance per level by 1.

 

It should be both flat integer and percentage. The system isn't built around thresholds, it needs to be scaleable unless we want to rework functionality completely.

 

An integer bonus is already scaleable if the bonus applies per every level. Also, clarify my preview post, I would drop endurance gain by 2 or so per level.

Edited by Shevek
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Con bonus should be an integer. Just drop base endurance per level by 2 or 3 and make it so every point above 10 increases endurance per level by 1. Every point below 10 reduces endurance per level by 1.

 

It should be both flat integer and percentage. The system isn't built around thresholds, it needs to be scaleable unless we want to rework functionality completely.

 

An integer bonus is already scaleable if the bonus applies per every level. Also, clarify my preview post, I would drop endurance gain by 2 or so per level.

 

 

The impact of that is way too huge. You'd have to rebalance the entire game.

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Calculate it out. It would hurt a lot if you dump. It would give fighters slightly more HP if they invest in it. It would give squishies a lot more HP if they invest in it and actually make it useful. In another words, it would fix con. It wouldn't imbalance anything.

 

Again reduce base endurance per level by 1 to 3 for all classes (would need to play with that). All points in con above 10 give 1 more end per level. All points below 10 give a 1 point penalty.

Edited by Shevek
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Calculate it out. It would hurt a lot if you dump. It would give fighters slightly more HP if they invest in it. It would give squishies a lot more HP if they invest in it and actually make it useful. In another words, it would fix con. It wouldn't imbalance anything.

 

Again reduce base endurance per level by 1 to 3 for all classes (would need to play with that). All points in con above 10 give 1 more end per level. All points below 10 give a 1 point penalty.

 

This would make characters with low constitution and low endurance/health gain per level virtually being insta-killed.

 

Sorry, but no. The last thing we want is more insta-gibbing of squishies.

 

 

The solution for CON is simple: add another benefit to CON beside the health and endurance bonus.

All stats have both a defensive and an offensive effect.

 

And while PER and RES affecting interrupts are somewhat less important than the other stats, at least they offer something for everyone.

CON is literally the only attribute that is a dump-stat for everyone.

Again, recovery time of armors. It makes sense!

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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