Wood Elf racial too strong

[Odd Hermit]

Was hoping they'd nerf this or change it in some way, or bring others up to par in some way.

 

Right now they are absolutely a no-brainer choice for all spell casters and ranged weapon users.

 

 

+Accuracy is a very, very valuable stat and there only so many stack-able sources. As a racial it just overshadows anything else pretty substantially.

 

For the same reasons it was removed from perception(back in the beta), it should be removed from Wood Elves.

 

 

I'm all for strong racials though, so I'd be good with other races getting more substantial/competitive ones as well. But it's pretty hard to compete with +accuracy for casters right now. I'd take +5 accuracy over even +10% damage, since landing crowd control/debuff spells relies on accuracy.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah a no brainer for a ranged cipher. .

[MoxyWoo]

So STRONG and HARD like WOOD.

[Schyzm]

except its massively inferior to moon godlike, but yah accuracy is pretty crucial and wood elves deliver it so its a reliably quality racial.

[kaiki]

PoE's difficulty is low enough that the racials are not that important. Only when running PotD is accuracy really an issue. The racial power reinforces what the devs want the flavor of the race to be. Looking at it from the perspective of "what would this bring to the game and do I want the devs to address this over other things" I don't feel that removing/adjusting the racial bonus would enhance the game as I play it. That answer informs that I'd prefer the devs to spend time addressing other issues or work on new content.

 

All in all it seems like a tempest in a teapot. My two cents.

[Schyzm]

PoE's difficulty is low enough that the racials are not that important. Only when running PotD is accuracy really an issue. The racial power reinforces what the devs want the flavor of the race to be. Looking at it from the perspective of "what would this bring to the game and do I want the devs to address this over other things" I don't feel that removing/adjusting the racial bonus would enhance the game as I play it. That answer informs that I'd prefer the devs to spend time addressing other issues or work on new content.

 

All in all it seems like a tempest in a teapot. My two cents.

 

the thing I would like to be worked on the most is ai pathing, encounter diversity and more disruptive abilities for bad guys. 

[peko]

except its massively inferior to moon godlike, but yah accuracy is pretty crucial and wood elves deliver it so its a reliably quality racial.

I wouldn't say that, they're good at so different things that they can't really be judged side by side. For most builds it's going to be pretty obvious which one is going to be better. I suppose it could be a harder choice for melee spellcaster who could get some use out of both.

[mazeltov]

Woody and Moonie will get what's coming to them.

 

[peddroelm]

Woody and Moonie will get what's coming to them.

 

Woody might dodge it .. He's not in the same class (quite a few levels behind like all other racials actually ) as the moon goodlike power ..

[b0rsuk]

Human gets +7 Accuracy and 15% damage.

[peddroelm]

Human gets +7 Accuracy and 15% damage.

short duration and more restrictions to trigger it than for elf than can have it on almost 100% of the time (ranged/caster) ..

[Zwiebelchen]

Woof elves have the ugly character models to compensate for the powerful racial.

 

Whenever I open the inventory, I immediately feel offended and wished I had taken human instead.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[MadDemiurg]

More like one of the few racials that aren't crap. Also moonlikes are way more OP in general.

[Slapstick87]

The problem is not that the elf racial is so good. The problem is that many other racials suck. We don't need to water down everything with nerfs to make it all bland. I'd rather have every race have an ability that is "OP" - and the decision becomes which amazing ability you really want, rather than "nothing really maters, just pick the character model you like".

[Zwiebelchen]

The problem is not that the elf racial is so good. The problem is that many other racials suck. We don't need to water down everything with nerfs to make it all bland. I'd rather have every race have an ability that is "OP" - and the decision becomes which amazing ability you really want, rather than "nothing really maters, just pick the character model you like".

 

Actually, the only "weak" racials are the dwarf and human ones. All others have their applications.

 

Elves are strong (both subraces; the +10 ice and fire DR are totally underrated), Orlans are strong (though Wild orlan is significantly better than the other), Aumauas are great (extra weapon slot is always useful, especially for gunners), most of the godlikes are strong aswell. Death is a little bit underwhelming, though, but has some uses for barbarians.

 

But none of the racials except moon godlike is a real game-changer. And I'm almost 100% positive that moon godlike racial is gonna get nerfed hard next patch.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[MadDemiurg]

Nature godlike racial is probably the worst in the game, and they give up helmet slot. Death godlike is petty weak too. Humans aren't exactly terrible but subpar. Mountain dwarves are awful, boreal are too situational (although very strong when it applies). Elves are both good, pale being somewhat more situational. Moon is stronger than any other racial. Orlans are decent, wild is again a bit situational though. Aumauas - Island are good for quickswitch, ocean are kinda mediocre.

[Slapstick87]

Nature godlike racial is probably the worst in the game, and they give up helmet slot. Death godlike is petty weak too. Humans aren't exactly terrible but subpar. Mountain dwarves are awful, boreal are too situational (although very strong when it applies). Elves are both good, pale being somewhat more situational. Moon is stronger than any other racial. Orlans are decent, wild is again a bit situational though. Aumauas - Island are good for quickswitch, ocean are kinda mediocre.

 

Would be cool if Nature goodlike was a bit more "natury". Like summoning two level-appropriate animals to fight with him when health < 50% or something like that. All abilities except the moon (and arguably fire) godlike are very... unnoticable. You don't really notice the abilities.

[JONNIN]

the races that require you to be nearly dead before you get ANY bonus are the worst.

Orlan (crits to hit version), moon, wood are all extra strong.  Pale elf is not terrible for a tank.  Amuaua resisting even some of  the knock downs can be handy. 

 

But all that aside, the real issue is not wood elf.   The real issue is balance problems -- accuracy is just about the #1 thing for every character of every class, and deflection follows.  I would rather see accuracy and the combat mechanics tweaked than mess with the wood elf, if something just *had* to be changed.  Honestly at this point leaving it alone is perfectly valid.

[basketofseals]

I don't understand why they removed accuracy from perception at all? Is not missing really OP? I feel like missing in just an annoyance rather than anything related to difficulty.

[Luckmann]

I don't understand why they removed accuracy from perception at all? Is not missing really OP? I feel like missing in just an annoyance rather than anything related to difficulty.

 

Accuracy is directly tied into all damage-dealing in PoE, no matter how you go about it; ranged, melee, or spells. Accuracy determines whether you Miss, Graze, Hit, or Crit, and it's based on a 0-100 scale of Accuracy-Defence and a d100. What that means is that Accuracy is very important, and far from just determining whether you miss or hit, even though "not missing" is by itself incredibly powerful, simply because some damage is always infinitely better than no damage.

 

That being said, I'm not sure I agree with the complete removal of Accuracy from Perception at all, but it should be clarified that it's far more than just whether you miss or not, and even if you see it as just an annoyance to miss, it is in fact deeply tied to difficulty.

[KDubya]

I don't understand why they removed accuracy from perception at all? Is not missing really OP? I feel like missing in just an annoyance rather than anything related to difficulty.

 

 

If Perception increased accuracy then every character would max it first. Hitting, or not, is more important than more powerful or faster attacks. It would greatly diminish the amount of different viable character builds.

 

The wood elf racial is fine, a small situational accuracy buff is not overpowered. The moon godlike ability, on the other hand, should be changed from an AoE to self only heal, possibly to per rest instead of per encounter.

[Jojobobo]

I think it's fine; it's semi-situational if people close the distance (though granted with the right party that isn't going to happen) and +4 accuracy, whilst nice, isn't a hugely dramatic boost. I guess it just illustrates how crappy the other racial abilities are, but that's not a bad thing as it more or less means you're not crapped on for playing pretty much any race.

[cctobias]

I don't think its too strong, I think the problem is more that some other one kind of suck or are just way way too situational.

[Crucis]

I think it's fine; it's semi-situational if people close the distance (though granted with the right party that isn't going to happen) and +4 accuracy, whilst nice, isn't a hugely dramatic boost. I guess it just illustrates how crappy the other racial abilities are, but that's not a bad thing as it more or less means you're not crapped on for playing pretty much any race.

 

^ Exactly this. 

 

The perceived strength of the wood elven racial benefit points to how much weaker most other races' racial benefits are.  IMO, there are very few other racial benefits that are even decent to pretty good.  Obviously, the Moon GL.  The Hearth Orlan's bonus to crits isn't so bad.  The Boreal Dwarven bonus +25% damage vs 2 monster groups) is pretty decent.  The Island Aumaua benefit (i.e. getting an extra weapons slot) is pretty decent, IMO.  Beyond that, I'm not sure that I'd say that any of the other races' benefits are any good. 

 

Other than the Moon GL's ability, I honestly don't see any ability that requires the character to fall below 50% END as "good".  The Moon GL's ability is good because it's meant to heal you after reaching those thresholds.  I don't see making one's character stronger or more damaging when below 50% END as a good thing.  I'd rather not be triggering it in the first place.  I prefer abilities that aren't tied to reduced END.  That's why I like the racial abilities I list above.

 

On a side note, why do other races with sub-groups have different abilities for those sub-groups, while humans share a single racial ability regardless of whether they're Meadow, Savannah, or Ocean Folk?  Or for that matter, why not have all of the different racial sub-groups get different attribute bonuses, rather than have those attribute bonuses tied to the overall race?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Crucis

[Luckmann]

I agree with what some previous posters have said; if anything, other racials should be brought up to the Wood Elf:s level. My only gripe with the woodie racial is that it's too pigeon-holed, benefiting ranged combatants far, far more than melee combatants. This is a minor gripe, but it has the psychological effect that if I'm doing a melee combatant (such as a dual-wielding Fighter!) I will be severely put off from actually taking wood elf, because I will feel like I'm being shafted.

In particular, I'd like to see the human racial addressed, and diversified. Humans are the only ones that aren't getting unique racials based on subrace, and the racial that they do get is meh and bleh.

 

 

I don't understand why they removed accuracy from perception at all? Is not missing really OP? I feel like missing in just an annoyance rather than anything related to difficulty.

 

 

If Perception increased accuracy then every character would max it first. Hitting, or not, is more important than more powerful or faster attacks. It would greatly diminish the amount of different viable character builds.

 

The wood elf racial is fine, a small situational accuracy buff is not overpowered. The moon godlike ability, on the other hand, should be changed from an AoE to self only heal, possibly to per rest instead of per encounter.

 

 

I'm not convinced that is true at all. Accuracy is good, but it's not the end-all be-all stat that some make it out to be. I could see +1 (absolutely not +2) be a part of Perception. Saying that, for example, that "hitting, or not, is more important than more powerful or faster attacks" is directly proportional to how much faster you hit, or how much more powerful your hits become when they do hit.

Mind you, I'm not saying that you're absolutely wrong, just that it's a numbers game in the example you gave; if you can end up making twice as many attacks as before, it's better than hitting 2/3 instead of 1/3, simply because you make enough attacks to make up for it, and so on. There are other circumstances to gauge as well, which isn't as easy to translate or compare, depending on what you want to achieve - such as the healing bonus, or the deflection bonus, or interrupt.

So it's not necessarily nearly as clear-cut as it may seem at first.

Also, I think it's a bit unfair to count the Wood Elf Racial as a situational accuracy buff - after all, it's a situation that will be present 9 times out of 10. After all, if you're a ranged combatant, you really should have zero problems staying out of melee, especially if you pay attention (which you should, if you're a wood elf - especially as a wood elf!).

 

And I would hate to see the Moonlike racial watered down to be caster-only; it is one of the few racials that actually hits the sweet spot (imo, it could even be a bit more powerful, by scaling!) for what godlike racials should be. If it was caster-only, it would only ever be useful for tanks and no-one else, dry, bland and boring, without any real reactive effects.