This game is AWESOME and it needs EXPANSIONSS

[nlwarrior]

Hello to the community of Obsidian

 

I am not much of a hardcore gamer myself, but I become one if the game is actually good. I grew up playing baldur's gate because it was one of the most exceptional pieces of work i have ever seen when i was a boy. Seeing the trailers for Pillars of Eternity for the first time gave me doubts; is this going to be a rip off? Is this going to be an inferior version of an existing masterpiece that is Baldur's Gate? Thankfully, trying the game proved my doubts wrong, because Pillars of Eternity is an AWESOME GAME that is not only ORIGINAL, but corrected some of the "MISTAKES" i didnt like about Baldur's Gate series. I am going to list some points here which i like about this game and hope the developers will not mess up when making expansions or sequels

 

Things I seriously like (With lots of comparison to BG and IWD)

1. New rounds system - I like how armor and dexterity affects attack speed, whereas tanks in bg felt a little too overpowered

2. New per encounter abilities - No more resting after each fight just to get back that lay on hands skill

3. New health system - Again, less resting in between fights and no "god mode" where fighters can stay awake forever with a ring of regen

4. New class accuracy/deflection settings - This might be a minor issue to most, but I didn't like how rogues and monks in bg have lower accuracy vs a clumsy front line tanking fighter, it just didnt make sense

5. Old art design + modern rendering - Games do not need intensive graphics to look good. They just need to look appealing. Bg never looked too appealing to me (Mostly due to stiff looking characters) but Pillars of Eternity did an excellent job here (Mostly due to more lively looking characters)

6. Ranged weapons does not need ammo

7. Lots of meaningless items (pets, capes, helmets)

8. Limited experience from combat - This seemed like a strange one at first, but it not only makes perfect sense but also adds on to roleplay value. There is only so much one can learn from killing the same monster over and over again, so exp earning stops after a certain number of kills feels justified. Furthermore, this removes the player's urge to kill anything in sight just to gain that few experience points, thus adding more weight to diplomatic/stealthy approaches in handling potentially hostile foes

9. Limited resting supplies - This forces the player to make the best of combat

10. ****loads of weapon and armour types - More please, including expansions featuring asian or middle east equipments would be very welcome

 

However, there are a few things I do not like. Some might disagree but I am open for discussions. These are not bugs, just game rules that I find strange

 

Things I seriously wish changed

1. Might affects magic power? I never understood the logic behind this.

2. No aggro system - Obsidian I understand you are following bg. Hoever, this is year 2015, they didnt have an aggro system back then because no one thought of it, but still not having it now in a strategy RPG game just feels ridiculous

3. Mages have too few spells

4. Rangers feel kinda useless - I THINK the ranger is designed to be a dps class, but all he/she gives is an average ranged class supported by a mediocre pet companion (that suffers fatigue easily) which dies frequently, rendering the ranger herself mediocre with the debuff. With the current high dps rogue class, there is absolutely NO REASON to pick the ranger class, aside from times where the useless pet could be sent to draw enemies out for hit and run tactics. Under most circumstances, hit and run is not needed for a well balanced 6 man team, the rogue's dps highly overpowers the ranger, the chanter's pets highly overpowers the ranger's pet, what exactly is the ranger here for???

5. No custom/standard ai scripts - This would be nice to have so I won't need to spam pause for every single fight. That should be reserved for the big fights. I dont need the game to test my sense of strategy for practically every single fight, my character should be allowed to make a few important combat decisions on his own, and me stepping in only under difficult or unusual circumstances

 

All in all, Pillars of Eternity is a game that needs spawns of its own. For once, Obsidian did not make a game that feels like an "unauthentic" sequel to another game, but one that is both AWESOME and ORIGINAL! With the awesomeness of this game and Obsidian's experience at making better sequels to games, this game needs not one expansion but maybe 2 or 3! This is because, in my opinion, the original game does not seem to have enough content. It follows baldur's gate one in terms of exploration and baldur's gate 2 in terms of exciting storylines, but does not have the content of exploration like in bg1 or the depth of story like in bg2. Overall it feels like a game that wants to give the feel of exploration, but is really restricting you to follow its main story line which just spans across 3 acts between several places. 80 game hours might sound enough at first sight but great rpg games need to have either a vast world of exploration or a deep storyline. If Pillars of Eternity wants to do both, then it needs to do WELL at both, right now the story ends too fast and exploration is somewhat limited.

 

Maybe the game could have one expansion that adds lots of new places or dungeons and sidequests to explore, and another to further enhance the story? A sequel is definitely welcome but I would like to see the developers do justice to its original game first. Its your fault Obsidian for making such a good game that I have to make this request

 

What does everyone else think?

[rjshae]

By Aggro, do you mean like the Threat system used in Dragon Age? That always felt very artificial to me. I'd rather have a good monster AI system.

[Althernai]

There is going to be at least one expansion. It was promised as part of the Kickstarter and many people already paid for it so they have to do it (particularly since the original game sold pretty well). I agree with much of what you say and I'm neutral towards most of the rest, but there is one thing that I really have to object to:

2. No aggro system - Obsidian I understand you are following bg. Hoever, this is year 2015, they didnt have an aggro system back then because no one thought of it, but still not having it now in a strategy RPG game just feels ridiculous

The AI in PoE is far from great and the Engagement mechanics could have also been better. However, this is still orders of magnitude better than the concept of aggro which literally means that the AI is deliberately programmed to do the stupidest thing possible. Have you ever even considered attacking the most armored and defended enemies while squishy damage-dealers attack you and squishy healers restore the durable critters you're attacking? This is literally the opposite of how anything even marginally intelligent would act. Even children playing games like these quickly learn to take out the squishy enemies first. Why cripple the AI like that?

[Hebruixe]

I for one was relieved that they didn't implement an artificial aggro system that forces enemy AI to obey cheese tactics like taunting. Aggro is fine for MMOs (where immersion hardly matters) but it really doesn't belong in single player rpgs.

 

I agree with most of your other points though. Great game, and I can't wait for more content to be released!

[LadyCrimson]

3. Mages have too few spells

There's a lot of things I could nitpick about Pillars mages, but I'm not sure having too few spells is one of them. Is there a reason you feel this way?

I actually thought there were too many of them, in the sense that the "cast per rest" tier separation seemed to include too many that were similar. As if they wanted to make sure you had something available even if you used all per rests of a single tier. Although, granted, many of those were the defensive spells, like all the shielding and mirror type ones.

[Rosveen]

There is going to be at least one expansion. It was promised as part of the Kickstarter and many people already paid for it so they have to do it (particularly since the original game sold pretty well). I agree with much of what you say and I'm neutral towards most of the rest, but there is one thing that I really have to object to:

2. No aggro system - Obsidian I understand you are following bg. Hoever, this is year 2015, they didnt have an aggro system back then because no one thought of it, but still not having it now in a strategy RPG game just feels ridiculous

The AI in PoE is far from great and the Engagement mechanics could have also been better. However, this is still orders of magnitude better than the concept of aggro which literally means that the AI is deliberately programmed to do the stupidest thing possible. Have you ever even considered attacking the most armored and defended enemies while squishy damage-dealers attack you and squishy healers restore the durable critters you're attacking? This is literally the opposite of how anything even marginally intelligent would act. Even children playing games like these quickly learn to take out the squishy enemies first. Why cripple the AI like that?

I think we need to establish what aggro system the OP is talking about. Aggro in itself is simply the mechanism used by mobs to prioritize targets. This can be calculated taking into account taunts, distance, dealt damage, active status effects, current health % etc. In short, it can be far more complex than "attack the tank" - in fact, mobs often attack the tank only because they're taunted, so if PoE had taunts with limited usage per encounter, the remaining mobs would be free to target someone else unless you have multiple tanks or the tank can generate aggro through other means. Which might even be impossible because of the way he's built; for example, shades in PoE target enemies with low defenses (poor Aloth!) Edited May 7, 2015 by Rosveen

[Althernai]

I think we need to establish what aggro system the OP is talking about. Aggro in itself is simply the mechanism used by mobs to prioritize targets. This can be calculated taking into account taunts, distance, dealt damage, active status effects, current health % etc. In short, it can be far more complex than "attack the tank" - in fact, mobs often attack the tank only because they're taunted, so if PoE had taunts with limited usage per encounter, the remaining mobs would be free to target someone else unless you have multiple tanks or the tank can generate aggro through other means. Which might even be impossible because of the way he's built; for example, shades in PoE target enemies with low defenses (poor Aloth!)

OK, but by that definition, PoE does have an "aggro system" -- it's just nothing like the one used by most MMOs or games with combat based on MMOs such as Dragon Age: Origins. Enemies prioritize targets in a fairly rational way (except if they can't get to them in which case they're not very smart, but ranged enemies are OK) and there do exists abilities and spells which force the enemies to engage a tank. They're not called taunting, but the effect is the same.

[Rosveen]

Yeah. Aggro by any other name... What people want is aggro management. "Do this to generate threat." We could argue all day if it's needed and beneficial or not. But tbh, engagement is very nearly a melee taunt already.

[redneckdevil]

Yes this game is in awesome and I'm impatiently waiting for moar!

[bronzepoem]

Of course，3-4 big expansions is a must.Maybe two big and two small？

[nlwarrior]

 

There is going to be at least one expansion. It was promised as part of the Kickstarter and many people already paid for it so they have to do it (particularly since the original game sold pretty well). I agree with much of what you say and I'm neutral towards most of the rest, but there is one thing that I really have to object to:

2. No aggro system - Obsidian I understand you are following bg. Hoever, this is year 2015, they didnt have an aggro system back then because no one thought of it, but still not having it now in a strategy RPG game just feels ridiculous

The AI in PoE is far from great and the Engagement mechanics could have also been better. However, this is still orders of magnitude better than the concept of aggro which literally means that the AI is deliberately programmed to do the stupidest thing possible. Have you ever even considered attacking the most armored and defended enemies while squishy damage-dealers attack you and squishy healers restore the durable critters you're attacking? This is literally the opposite of how anything even marginally intelligent would act. Even children playing games like these quickly learn to take out the squishy enemies first. Why cripple the AI like that?

I think we need to establish what aggro system the OP is talking about. Aggro in itself is simply the mechanism used by mobs to prioritize targets. This can be calculated taking into account taunts, distance, dealt damage, active status effects, current health % etc. In short, it can be far more complex than "attack the tank" - in fact, mobs often attack the tank only because they're taunted, so if PoE had taunts with limited usage per encounter, the remaining mobs would be free to target someone else unless you have multiple tanks or the tank can generate aggro through other means. Which might even be impossible because of the way he's built; for example, shades in PoE target enemies with low defenses (poor Aloth!)

 

 

It seems I did not explain myself very well in terms of what aggro means.

 

My concern with "aggro" is the way this game is designed when it comes to combat in general. What happened to me was that the tank sometimes does not "hold aggro" if a squishier rogue were to attack the enemy in CLOSE COMBAT, the enemy who was engaging the tank would sometimes switch target to the rogue if the rogue is deemed rather squishy.

Why design a tank if the tank cannot at least keep an opponent busy for his teammates to attack? And why design a dps class who could unleash tons of melee dps but becomes the top priority in every enemies' to-kill list?

Yes I understand people's concern here, I am not requesting the developers to cripple the ai by scripting them to attack the hardiest character only, but rather, like Rosveen said, design a way which gives tanks more control over the combat situation so that they could DO THEIR JOB AS A TANK. I am asking for things like a skill that generates threat for maybe 15 seconds, something a little more dependable than the knock down skill which succeeds only half the time, and ineffective against bosses.

This isn't about mmo or single player here, I am not sure if the tanks in this game are really designed to simply attack a target and do nothing but HOPE the enemy focus on him unless all other characters are using ranged weapons or spells. Yeah I agree it doesn't take a genius to know that killing squishier characters should be first priority, this is most evident in games like Dota or Lol where carries and supports are always the primary target, but those games provide tanks with stuns or disables to attract attention (would you call a human's brain to be crippled if his attention were drawn to the tank in retaliation to a stun that could mean the end of his life?), whereas the tank in PoE doesn't do much besides pray and pray that he remains in the spotlight, which brings back to my point; Tanks in PoE have very little control over the combat situation.

 

All in all, please make more expansions for this awesome game!! (Just one won't do justice!!) I rarely bother to post about a game because I rarely care about its survival, but this is one game I do not wish to see its development halted because its seriously darn good! 

[illathid]

1. Might affects magic power? I never understood the logic behind this.

 

People with mighty souls are able to use that soul power to do more damage. This is true regardless of the damage you are doing, whether you swinging a sword, shooting a gun, or casting a spell. Your soul power bleeds into every action you do, whether mundane or magical in nature.

[petrivanzyl]

Soul power makes you shoot things with a gun better?

[Starwars]

Charisma makes my Sorceror cast spells better?

[dekergus]

Yes this game is in awesome and I'm impatiently waiting for moar!

 couldnt say better ^^

[Gorbag]

Charisma makes my Sorceror cast spells better?

Makes him/her pretty powerful 

[Carados]

I can't wait to play more eternity content

 

Hopefully we'll get a nice sized expansion soon and then a big long sequel like baldur's gate 2.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Carados

[illathid]

Soul power makes you shoot things with a gun better?

 

Errr... Sort of. It actually has no power on your ability to hit accurately, but it will infuse the projectile with a portion of the mightiness of your soul, making it hit harder.

[Grinch]

I disagree about rangers. I'm not that far into the game and my ranger is only level 3 but he seems to be doing just fine with a war bow. I took the bear as a pet and it doesn't seem mediocre at all. He can hold agro enough for my ranger to hit with the bow and the other NPC's to get involved. I usually send the pet in first to buy time. It's very rare that he loses a lot of health or endurance. Like I said though I'm early into the game. Just picked up Durance. So things are subject to change further in.

 

I agree with you about AI scripts. It's the one thing I really miss from the IE games. I don't really like the idea of having to babysit my whole party to get them to use spells or special abilities. Slow combat helps but I would much rather have scripts so that I only have to control my main character. Seems like PoE took a step backward compared to IE games in this case. If they ever came out with a turned based, action point mode that would eliminate the need for scripts but with the real-time nature of this game you either have to babysit your party by constantly pausing or just use standard attacks and forget about special abilities/spells.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Grinch

[VahnXIII]

Yes OP, this game is amazing. I think you're preaching to the choir with your wish for expansions and even sequels. I'm hoping our niche market continues to be healthy and happy so games like PoE will continue to be developed.

 

Now go tell your friends about it so Obsidian can make more sales!