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Why must you oppose Raedric VII?


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I found the key, opened Giacco's cell (sounds like a character from Dante). The room next to the temple is I think the one I want, but requires mechanic 5, I have only 3.

Yes I had the dream in the inn, but opened no new quests. Eder won't talk to me. I cleaned out the ruined temple dungeon; journal says find Wirtan. Where?

 

I guess I'm not much into story/ roles. Is there a walkthrough for the game?

 

Glad you feel good!

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Are you using the tab key to highlight chests and people?  Wirtan is in the area where  you enter the ruined temple.  The game does require a lot of attention to detai.

 

Did you talk to the dwarf woman hanging on the tree in Gilded Vale?  She opens the "Old Watcher" quest and then Eder will be available to join your party.  You have to have some dialogue with him though.

 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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I've been thinking about the idea that Raedric kills his wife because 'that is the law he has laid down'.  We only actually have his word that this was the reason he did it, and he goes on and on about how she 'betrayed him' and was the cause for their son being hollowborn.  This sounds more like he killed her out of a desire for vengeance not justice, and is now just trying to dress it up as something just.  Just something to consider, I know we have been 'taught' by games to always take things at face value (because that is how the writer tries to get his points and character development across), but maybe in this one things people are not always to be taken at their word.

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I've been thinking about the idea that Raedric kills his wife because 'that is the law he has laid down'.  We only actually have his word that this was the reason he did it, and he goes on and on about how she 'betrayed him' and was the cause for their son being hollowborn.  This sounds more like he killed her out of a desire for vengeance not justice, and is now just trying to dress it up as something just.  Just something to consider, I know we have been 'taught' by games to always take things at face value (because that is how the writer tries to get his points and character development across), but maybe in this one things people are not always to be taken at their word.

 

I agree that a lot of modernist games have taught us to take things at face value (See: everything Bethesda) but I don't think that Raedric is being disingenuous in this. If there's one thing that seems to define Raedric's arguable madness, it's probably his obsession with resolving the hollowborn crisis. Also, if I remember correctly, there is evidence in the bedroom that she's been praying to or holding on to Eothas.

 

This suggest to me that while yes, he was probably vengeful and felt that she betrayed him by birthing a hollowborn - since they believe it to be a spiritual disease, a divine judgement. Dogmatically, she must've betrayed him in some capacity to even birth a hollowborn, and according to that dogma, she must've broken the law to do so. That's the thing - even birthing a hollowborn suggests that a crime was committed.

 

The fact that she'd at the very least kept Eothas paraphernalia around corroborated the suspicion and drove the obsessed and extremely dogmatic, extremely lawful Raedric to punish her accordingly.

 

But ultimately, it is of course impossible to tell for sure. For all we know, she ate the last slice of pizza in the fridge and he killed her in a drunken rage, swinging the hollowborn child as a flail.

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IIRC correctly you can get there from Raedrick's Keep area, Black Meadow or Esternwood.  Remember the first time going there you may need to search for the proper poral.  One of those may have a sign post telling you more less what direction to go.

 

If you have gotten there you should arrive on a bridge.  Walk down the Bridge  Kana will be humming or something.  Talk to him.  Simply click any where on the map to enter the grounds.   Pay attention to what Kana tells you about the place and why he is still outside.  

 

I usually arrive at Caed Nua at level three and leave it at level four.

 

Good luck.

 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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OK, thank you Nakia: I have Eder and Watcher's quest which sent me to Eau Odra (sp) where I cannot get into the Barbican, no travel icon. Underground passage?

Also I'm still stuck at level 3.

 

When you cross the bridge on the west side of the Caed Nua map, as Nakia said, you'll meed Kana, who is humming while examining the wall's architecture.  The actual entrance to the Caed Nua castle is just to the right of Kana.  It's not hidden.  Just walk right on through the game, though be careful when you do...  The place is not inhabited by friendlies.

 

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the actual anomaly regarding raedric is that we can negotiate with and even work for him after having slaughtered dozens o' his loyal subjects in a day o' bloodshed that makes that tree in gilded vale look like it is decorated for christmas compared to the carnage we wrought.  IF you side with raedric, there should necessarily be a cutscene at some point afterwards informing the player that readric were killed in his sleep by a chambermaid in his employ, the fiance o' raedric's deceased captain o' the guard.  your massacre would continue to produce victims long after your departure from raedric's hold.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Been busy!

My turning points were finding the mother, then Eder; found the door to the stronghold just right of Hollowstone building.

Have terminated Raedric, and the drake, etc.. in Caed Nua. I have the blood and sapphire seals: where is the third?

A note mentions a book on level 4?

Moving on!

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the actual anomaly regarding raedric is that we can negotiate with and even work for him after having slaughtered dozens o' his loyal subjects in a day o' bloodshed that makes that tree in gilded vale look like it is decorated for christmas compared to the carnage we wrought.  IF you side with raedric, there should necessarily be a cutscene at some point afterwards informing the player that readric were killed in his sleep by a chambermaid in his employ, the fiance o' raedric's deceased captain o' the guard.  your massacre would continue to produce victims long after your departure from raedric's hold.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I get the feeling that Raedric goes nowhere without his loyal entourage. He's likely got guards posted on both sides of the door to his chambers.

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the actual anomaly regarding raedric is that we can negotiate with and even work for him after having slaughtered dozens o' his loyal subjects in a day o' bloodshed that makes that tree in gilded vale look like it is decorated for christmas compared to the carnage we wrought.

 

No offense, but given the guy's track record (said tree) he hasn't exactly shown that he values kith life. At the very least, he seems to find lives expendable and replaceable. As what's-his-face said at Gilded Vale said, he desperately seeks soul experts and rids himself of them just as quickly (meaning the tree), then calls for more to replace the executed. The population in on the verge of collapse due to not only the Hollowbirth epidemic, but his counterproductive measure to banish all mothers of hollowborn. What's his solution? Call for settlers to come in and replace the dwindling population, of course.

 

It's very likely that you slaughtering most of his castle has him thinking, "Well, I can just hire replacements." He probably feels it's much more beneficial to him to have the killing machine working for him instead of against him.

 

He also probably assumes that his cousin tricked you into killing his men. I mean, once you arrive in the throne room (however you got there), he starts in on a Hannibal Lecture asking if Kolsc put you up to this? did you know Kolsc is his cousin and is using you? why don't you work for me? Etc. Again, given his lack of value of kith life, he probably sees you butchering his men (if that was your route) as an honest mistake that can easily be fixed with you working for him and him hiring replacements to the ones you killed.

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"Not I, though. Not I," said the hanging dwarf.

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"It's very likely that you slaughtering most of his castle has him thinking, "Well, I can just hire replacements." He probably feels it's much more beneficial to him to have the killing machine working for him instead of against him."

 

again, what raedric is thinking ain't the issue.  you can't lead unless people follow.  a tyrant who has shown he cannot defend himself is not long for this world. you walk outta raedric castle alive, much less as an ally, is the beginning o' the end o' raedric.  one o' his "loyal" followers is gonna be killing him, and soon. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Even though I did the quest (because...game), I admit meeting Kolsc on the road (or tracking me down in the village) didn't exactly inspire me with a desire to support him.  Seems like the Raedric quest really should have been a lot more involved than it is (and your choice is rendered moot by the game itself, in the end, as I understand it).

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The way I see it is that Raedric is a lunatic fanatic who will never stop his oppressive and nasty ways. 

 The ending you get for Gilded Vale if you side with him I believe proves me right.  

 

 

It's actually kinda annoying (and sad) that most choices are so blatantly obvious. It would've been interesting if Raedric VII turned out to be the better choice if you actually fixed the whole crisis and returned the souls. Or killed himself in grief over having done so many in over something that changed nothing. Or actually was praised as having solved the crisis and stopped being a lunatic about the whole thing.

 

And if Kolsc turned out to be a self-indulgent noble splerglord that couldn't rule effectively to save his life.

 

 But isn't this what happened in the end? If you sided with raedric Gilded Vale would be prosperous and if you sided with Kolsc, Gilded Vale will become a lawless land? Have you finished the game? Im sure by now you have but at this point in time when you were posting this im guessing you haven't.

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  • 6 months later...

Professionally speaking, I like Kolsc. 

 

He knows you're formidable in combat, and he knows you can be appealed to.

These are both good things, when you're fortifying land technically under his purview.

He also grants you looting rights to an entire castle, which provides a fair bit of coin and some 

equipment upgrades right when you need them.

 

True, he can't cope with his rival's late game determination, but that was probably a bit of a surprise. 

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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  • 1 year later...

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I've just started playing the game for the first time. Like the OP, I also have an issue with this quest from an RP sense for my Bleak Walker, especially considering there's a class-specific dialogue choice when speaking with Raedric that initiates combat with him. I want to side with Raedric and even though you still have that option when confronting him, it feels wrong going against my order. According to the PoE Wiki site, there's a way to side with Raedric from the start:

 

(from http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Raedric_VII)

 

If you avoided Kolsc and either infiltrated/fought your way through the hold he will act surprised to see you.

  • If you infiltrated and made a deal with Osrya you may tell him that you are on his side.

 

(from http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Kolsc)

 

 

However, avoiding Kolsc in Esternwood seems impossible (apparently he avoids you if you have a bad reputation in Gilded Vale, but this is untrue seemingly), and I've also tried ignoring the quest and going straight to Defiance Bay, but haven't heard anything about the bounty on Kolsc in Defiance Bay. I know it's a shot in the dark, but can anyone verify whether or not this is even possible?

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The problem with a lot of these posts is that their logic seems pretty wonky to begin with. You fight and kill your way through Raedric's loyal underlings and you were actually expecting him to be more accommodating when you finally meet him? Sheesh.

 

Actually, if you sneak your way through the castle (feel free to kill any undead, monsters and even Osrya) and avoid fighting ANY of Raedric's guards he'll act more curious/calculating when you suddenly show up in his throneroom instead of wary/outraged. You can then discuss your terms with him.

 

You don't have to accept Kolsc's offer in the beginning, even Bleak Walkers know better than to accept every job from random strangers. The smart ones (and the ones responsible for giving their organization its ruthless reputation) probably do their research. I mean seriously, if you're the type who takes your promises very seriously you'd also be very careful about giving them.

Edited by scythesong
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The problem with a lot of these posts is that their logic seems pretty wonky to begin with. You fight and kill your way through Raedric's loyal underlings and you were actually expecting him to be more accommodating when you finally meet him? Sheesh.

 

Actually, if you sneak your way through the castle (feel free to kill any undead, monsters and even Osrya) and avoid fighting ANY of Raedric's guards he'll act more curious/calculating when you suddenly show up in his throneroom instead of wary/outraged. You can then discuss your terms with him.

 

You don't have to accept Kolsc's offer in the beginning, even Bleak Walkers know better than to accept every job from random strangers. The smart ones (and the ones responsible for giving their organization its ruthless reputation) probably do their research. I mean seriously, if you're the type who takes your promises very seriously you'd also be very careful about giving them.

 

You're making quite a few assumptions here, my friend.

 

It actually seems impossible not to "side" with Kolsc during your initial meeting with him (either in Gilded Vale or Esternwood) -- even when I brush him off, the dialogue choices with Raedric still seem to assume I've sided with Kolsc. I've also tried stealthing all the way to Raedric without killing any guards, and while the opening line of the conversation with him is different, it still leads to the same conversation choices overall. The info I've pulled from the game's Wiki page in my previous post just seems to be inaccurate. According to the page, Kolsc will not approach you if you have a bad reputation in Gilded Vale, however he stops me in Esternwood regardless of my reputation. I've also headed straight for Defiance Bay with a cruel disposition, but have seen no mention of a bounty on Kolsc anywhere.

 

Obviously this is nowhere near game-breaking and I'm still enjoying the game immensely, but it would have been nice to have been able to ally with Raedric from the beginning rather than contradicting the Bleak Walker oath (according to the dialogue choices) by apparently switching sides, regardless of what I said to Kolsc in the initial meeting.

 

P.S. - I do appreciate the roleplaying tips, though. I guess I'll have to stop taking those pro bono puppy rescue missions with my Bleak Walker now ;)

Edited by Dan teh Man
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Actually, I almost always never agree to work with Kolsc in any of my games and my answers range from "I'll think about it." to "Leave me out of it.". He'll then just say something along the lines of "Well then... I hope you change your mind." and then leave.

I tend to not trust random strangers who appear from out of nowhere and then ask me to kill someone based solely on their word.

 

I've never seen those answers as implying that my characters have decided to "side" with him. I'd say most of them think probably think he's some sort of weirdo, or just very entitled (he pretty much doesn't even offer you anything in return).

 

As far as Raedric goes, the man is on the verge on insanity and has resorted to mass murder, sponsoring bounty hunters/serial killers and killing his own wife. Personally, I've always seen his calm demeanor as more disturbing than anything and if not for the obvious, potentially exploitable paranoia I'd attack him on the spot on any of my characters. He's simply become too unpredictable and dangerous, though I suppose there is room for RP exceptions there.

 

There's a lot more to the game that what's mentioned in the wikis, and I've had to edit more than a few inaccuracies in different quest articles. The details on those entries could simply be wrong.

Edited by scythesong
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For whatever reason, the game always assumes that I've sided with Kolsc when I visit Raedric's Hold, even when I choose the responses you mentioned. In a nutshell, there doesn't seem to be an option for completing the quest without first taking his "side" unfortunately -- no matter what I say or do, my conversations with Raedric always imply that I'm on Kolsc's side, and every time there's a Bleak Walker-specific dialogue choice that initiates combat with Raedric. I really do wish I was able to simply go to Defiance Bay and hear about the bounty on Kolsc's head (as the Wiki page implies), as that would certainly be more suitable from an RP stance for my Bleak Walker (helping a ruthless thayn who wants to quell an uprising).

 

Oh well, I'm still having a blast playing Pillars of Eternity and have sunk about 20 more hours of game time since completing this quest, so I'm fine with moving past it. I was just misled by the information on the Wiki page and thought I'd check in with some of the veterans here to see if it was even possible. Appreciate the feedback. :)

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Do you happen to have a "benevolent" disposition? That also causes Kolsc to appear (whether you want him to or not).

 

Opposing dispositions are actually not exclusive, and the game allows you to be both benevolent and cruel. There are even unique reputations for people who do both good and bad things for different factions, like "Eccentric" and "Dark Hero".

Edited by scythesong
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I have "Show Personality/Reputation" enabled in the options as added security that I don't say something out of character, so I've been able to avoid all diplomatic and benevolent responses. In retrospect, I really shouldn't have made such a big deal out of this -- the game gives a perfectly suitable opportunity in the dialogue to switch sides, so it doesn't affect the outcome of the quest. It just seems like no matter what I do or say prior to my initial meeting with Raedric changes the Bleak Walker-specific dialogue choice in the conversation, and that's what ultimately bothered me at the time -- it felt wrong not choosing the class-specific response, but doing so would lead to a battle with Raedric. I'm assuming it's just a very small oversight on the part of the devs, as the response I'm referring is essentially, "I don't care about your personal life situation Raedric; I'm putting an end to this right now." In a perfect world, that would only be an option if you did agree to aid Kolsc, but it seems to come up in the conversation even if you turn him away.

 

You know what, I'm going to start a new game either tonight or tomorrow as a Bleak Walker, dump all my points into stealth and sneak my way to Raedric one more time just to make sure I'm not talking out of my behind here. I definitely did that before, but perhaps I killed a single guard or something. I'll report back shortly (and will be thoroughly embarrassed if I was wrong).

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Okay, so I rolled a Bleak Walker, maxed out stealth on my two level-ups (upon leaving Cilant Lis and after having the dream in Gilded Vale) and headed straight for Raedric's Keep. Kolsc approached me in Esternwood and the three dialogue choices I had to end the conversation were: "I can handle any threat on my own."; "Why don't you come with me?"; and "Thank you for the warning. Perhaps I'll return later." Regardless of what I chose, the journal entry remained the same, mentioning that Raedric was a tyrant that people wanted removed from the throne. I then went to the keep, broke into the sewers, stealthed my way to Osrya, tried both killing her for her key and completing her quest to get her key (without killing any guards), and my conversation with Raedric was the same: he mentions how Kolsc hired mercenaries to do his bidding, and there's a Bleak Walker-specific response of "Save your words, for they do not move me. I will end this feud here and now."

 

There's a small chance that the conversation with Kolsc might go differently if he approaches you in Gilded Vale after completing a few quests. I'll try that tomorrow to see if it changes anything, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't because that's what I did in my previous Bleak Walker playthrough. Regardless, I'll give it one last shot tomorrow. :)

Edited by Dan teh Man
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