Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Nonek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOYBWwmcXeg

 

You heard it here first ladies and gentleman, cash payments and a sexual relationship between a journalist and their subject is both ethical and not worthy of any attention. You halfwitted buffoon.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

 

 

Ooh scolded for telling the truth by Bruce, such a moral authority.

 

Do your own investigation hypocrite this is common knowledge, and i'll not waste my time on satisfying an abuser of womens tiny mind.

 

Yeah I would expect this from you, much easier just to say things and not have to back them up 

 

 

Like your unproven assertion that Mr Grayson is innocent of any unethical behaviour? Please Bruce you can believe your own lies, as i'm sure they let you sleep at night, but don't expect any others to do so.

 

A game journalist has a code of ethics to follow, he should not have a personal relationship of any kind with a game developer, never mind sleeping with one or paying for what follows. This is basic ethics, that can be confirmed by any ethics professor or anybody possessing a journalism degree. This should be simple to comprehend for a child or even you.

 

Edit: I'm not surprised that I have to tell you this.

 

 

Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

[Nonek]

No i'm not you halfwitted buffoon, and asking for ethical behaviour is now a new low? Honestly you'd know far more about paying for sex than me Bruce, I wouldn't think of intruding on your passtime.

 

However to get back on track now that we have proven again that Mr Greyson commited ethical abuses, I hope you aren't going to lie about this again, every debate you make yourself look more and more ridiculous.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Nonek

[Meshugger]

It seems like this video has to be shown at least once in the GamerGate-threads:

 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Nonek mate, remember what we said about engaging people who weren't arguing in good faith?

[Nonek]

Yes but it's so funny.

 

Edit: You're right I shouldn't troll like this, sorry.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Nonek

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

[kirottu]

For a half a year now only people who bring up Zoe Quinn are the anti-GG people. No one else gives a damn about her.

[Nonek]

 

Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

 

Ooh i've not heard of this, Return of the Honey Badgers?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Yes but it's so funny.

 

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

Ooh i've not heard of this, Return of the Honey Badgers?

Not necessarily, a comic con said it would be open to a debate panel concerning gg. At work right now so can't link, but the idea was to get a couple of willing people selected. KiA probably has more details.

[Meshugger]

[BruceVC]

 

Yes but it's so funny.

It can be, but we have a few situations that are more relevant at the moment, such as the SPJ thing and possibly a debate panel at a con. I'd much prefer to talk about that than getting into another circular argument with Bruce that clogs up several pages.

 

Fair enough, until next time Nonek

[Amentep]

Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

• How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

• How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

• If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

• If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

[BruceVC]

 

Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

• How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

• How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

• If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

• If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

 

This is a very good post and detail, very interesting. I am going to dinner now but I will respond to this..probably tomorrow 

[Zoraptor]

While Jade (surely, not Jane) Raymond may not have had any probllems with her employers and certainly seems to have been one of the better industry producers she has copped a lot of pretty unpleasant abuse from the more general online population. She's a good example of a successful woman in gaming but not a particularly good one in terms of having had no- genuinely- misogynist abuse, because she has.

[Malcador]

Wonder if it was bad as Wu or Quinn get. Good job soldiering on through it - of course when you're getting paid AAA rates, one can easily say "like I give a ****.." to that noise

[Zoraptor]

You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

[Namutree]

You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

I did so and it was unpleasant.

[BruceVC]

 

Are you suggesting that Grayson paid Quinn to sleep with her?

 

I hope you aren't saying that...that would be a new low from you

Its not really about Quinn or Grayson, per se. They're just real world examples of the questions that arise when developers and journalist intersect at at personal level. What he's saying is that if you're a journalist in a relationship with a developer, that you should recuse yourself/be recused by editorial from any journalistic endeavors related to the covering of that developer. 

 

To not use real people, lets say Developer A (DA) and Journalist B (JB) are in a relationship.  JB writes positive things about DA's career in games, and mentions their current work, the Awesome Game of Awesomeness (AGA)

• How do you know the positive press isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Would this developer be noted by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA runs into financial trouble because they sunk too much money in their project.  JB allows DA to move in and pays for some of the bills so DA can continue working on AGA.  JB writes a positive preview of AGA.

• How do you know the positive preview isn't influenced by the relationship?
• Isn't JB technically a financial investor in AGA? Does this mean JB can't be objective?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA and JB break up.  DA completes AGA.  JB gives a negative/positive review of AGA

• If Positive: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Negative: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

DA works on the sequel, AGA2.  When it comes out, JB pans/promotes it.

• If Promote: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write positively about it because they'd hyped it during the relationship?
• If Pan: Is the review accurate, or is JB inclined to write negatively about it because the relationship soured?
• Would AGA be a game covered by this press outlet if not for the relationship with the journalist?

You see the problem begins to arise about whether you can trust the news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

Well based on how you have created this post and the logical nature of your points I would have to be insane to disagree with it. So good points made in a reasonable and convincing manner 

 

The only counter argument I could make is no one had even heard of Depression Quest until GG was founded so wasn't  a " mountain made of a molehill " about this example? Its not like AAA games are created like this or for that matter even other Indie games where developers have physical relationships with developers so why create a movement that is determined to " expose corruption in the gaming industry " based on this example. In other words its not that bad this accusation of unethical behavior because I am sure the whole Depression Quest was just one isolated example ? 

[Malcador]

You can do a google image search for some of the 'cartoons' done about her if you want to see. I'm no sensitive internet snowflake and I'd consider them pretty bad. Obvious warning for potential unpleasantness if anyone does so.

Ah yeah I remember those, but was wondering if she got death threats or anything along those lines. Probably so. Still a good example of just doing it. And also why all the victims are nobodies in the industry or people who aren't even in it (scared off a field, pft).

[Calax]

Well based on how you have created this post and the logical nature of your points I would have to be insane to disagree with it. So good points made in a reasonable and convincing manner 

news outlet to be unbiased as much as it can, and point out what biases it has when it can't be neutral.

 

 

The only counter argument I could make is no one had even heard of Depression Quest until GG was founded so wasn't  a " mountain made of a molehill " about this example? Its not like AAA games are created like this or for that matter even other Indie games where developers have physical relationships with developers so why create a movement that is determined to " expose corruption in the gaming industry " based on this example. In other words its not that bad this accusation of unethical behavior because I am sure the whole Depression Quest was just one isolated example ? 

Well one of those things I heard about the whole situation was that Quinn had put in something along the lines of "donations and/or a portion of sales will go towards Depression research" and when the particular charity mentioned was asked they responded there had been no donations from the game, and the note disappeared.

[Meshugger]

Has this been posted yet? https://archive.is/0LoNG

 

Wasn't it The Guardian that originally posted the Snowden leaks? What kind of tripe is this?

 

 

 

It’s early days, but if we really want to create a progressive new world then issues like these should be at the hearts of our efforts from the very start. I hope Musk and his peers open up that discussion sooner rather than later, and I hope that people like Lee can take part in it. The last thing we need is to wake up in 50 years and find that a bunch of #gamergate nobheads are running Mars.

[Nonek]

The very epitome of modern journalism, absolutely laughable.

[ravenshrike]

Mars or Bust baby!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Has this been posted yet? https://archive.is/0LoNG

 

Wasn't it The Guardian that originally posted the Snowden leaks? What kind of tripe is this?

 

It’s early days, but if we really want to create a progressive new world then issues like these should be at the hearts of our efforts from the very start. I hope Musk and his peers open up that discussion sooner rather than later, and I hope that people like Lee can take part in it. The last thing we need is to wake up in 50 years and find that a bunch of #gamergate nobheads are running Mars.

 

The feminists know, shut it down!