Why is Raider restricted to Deadfire Archipelago?

[Luckmann]

This.. I want to be a Raider, and I figured I wanted to be from the White that Wends. Now, a Raider isn't specifically a shipwise raider; one of the options is to tell Calisca that you were a Highwayman.

A Highwayman... in an Archipelago?

The restriction just seems odd.

[gkathellar]

Because there was only room for eight slots on the GU...wait, no, that's not true.

 

I got nothing.

[Elerond]

I have found some other backgrounds that have similar problems, which is left me wondering if there has been communication disconnect or did they change background options after initial writing to make them seem more unique but writing was never brought to date.

[Luckmann]

I have found some other backgrounds that have similar problems, which is left me wondering if there has been communication disconnect or did they change background options after initial writing to make them seem more unique but writing was never brought to date.

 

That's my guess, anyway. They probably did the Culture/Background match-ups before they did the writing, or hadn't even conceived of the "flesh it out more"-conversation with Calisca at that point. Either way, I would want to see this fixed, but it's not enough of a "real" issue for me to actually make a thread in the Support forum.

 

Anyone that can think of similar issues?

[sparklecat]

Most of them?

 

There's no reason for restrictions on many of the backgrounds that I can see.

[Yria]

I can see why philosopher and scientist are restricted, but the rest are rather confusing. 

[Karkarov]

It is a lore thing guys, seriously.  Every culture has one unique background except for I think Ruatai maybe?  Raider is only for deadfire because Deadfire is home mostly to pirates and similar type guys.  Scientist is only in living lands because tons of scientists go there to explore the ecology, so on so forth.  Can't you just make do with mercenary, or go ahead and be from Deadfire?

[Luckmann]

It is a lore thing guys, seriously.  Every culture has one unique background except for I think Ruatai maybe?  Raider is only for deadfire because Deadfire is home mostly to pirates and similar type guys.  Scientist is only in living lands because tons of scientists go there to explore the ecology, so on so forth.  Can't you just make do with mercenary, or go ahead and be from Deadfire?

 

It's just a really odd discrepancy. If it was just a lore thing, like, raiders are always pirates or something, it would make sense, the same way Philosophers are from Ixamitl, Mystics are from the White that Wends, Scientists are from The Living Lands, but they all fill the same scholarly niche. But raiders are also Highwaymen.

 

I think that it's an oversight, in the end. I think it was rationalized as a lore-thing at first, but was then changed and not updated, or kept because, as you say, "every culture has a unique background". Except Rauatai; I think that Rauatai was supposed to get Scholar, but for some reason that is also assigned to Ixamitl. Ixamitl gets both Scholar and Philosopher, for some reason.

 

And "can't you just"? Don't be ridiiculous. Heironymous Fogglebottom is a renowned highwayman from The White That Wends. He's no mere mercenary and he's certainly not from the Deadfyre Archipelago.

 

 

No but seriously though, I just thought it was weird and wanted to report it. If I make a highwayman/criminal, I don't want to be from an Archipelago, and if I'm from an Archipelago, I don't want to be a highwayman. It's a screwed up oddity and someone should take a look at it, no matter my personal feelings.

 

I think there's a good argument that The White That Wends wouldn't even have roads or seas.

 

[sparklecat]

Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't get scholars everywhere.

[gkathellar]

Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't get scholars everywhere.

 

Lack of schools?

 

/rimshot

[Luckmann]

Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't get scholars everywhere.

 

My interpretation is that Scholar is fantasy-speak for Academician. And for that, you need, well, Academia.

[Gorbag]

Wait. There are highways in Pillars of Eternity? And Luckmann's character is manning them? Then why am I trudging for two whole days from Gilded Vale to Caed Nua?

[gkathellar]

Wait. There are highways in Pillars of Eternity? And Luckmann's character is manning them? Then why am I trudging for two whole days from Gilded Vale to Caed Nua?

 

Because you don't have a car.

[Gorbag]

 

Wait. There are highways in Pillars of Eternity? And Luckmann's character is manning them? Then why am I trudging for two whole days from Gilded Vale to Caed Nua?

 

Because you don't have a car.

 

The Codex is right, this game's got nothing on Fallout 2.

[Luckmann]

Wait. There are highways in Pillars of Eternity? And Luckmann's character is manning them? Then why am I trudging for two whole days from Gilded Vale to Caed Nua?

 

Because while I'm manning them, I'm not doing a very good job. My work ethic is questionable.

[Yria]

It's just a really odd discrepancy. If it was just a lore thing, like, raiders are always pirates or something, it would make sense, the same way Philosophers are from Ixamitl, Mystics are from the White that Wends, Scientists are from The Living Lands, but they all fill the same scholarly niche. But raiders are also Highwaymen.

I have the same problem with mystics, actually, because they aren't nessecerily shamanistic types with visions, there is also a theologist option. I don't see why theologist is restricted to being a mystic from the White that Wends, just as highwayman and burglar are restricted to Deadfire. Wouldn't this background make more sence within scholar branch? 

[Luckmann]

 

It's just a really odd discrepancy. If it was just a lore thing, like, raiders are always pirates or something, it would make sense, the same way Philosophers are from Ixamitl, Mystics are from the White that Wends, Scientists are from The Living Lands, but they all fill the same scholarly niche. But raiders are also Highwaymen.

I have the same problem with mystics, actually, because they aren't nessecerily shamanistic types with visions, there is also a theologist option. I don't see why theologist is restricted to being a mystic from the White that Wends, just as highwayman and burglar are restricted to Deadfire. Wouldn't this background make more sence within scholar branch? 

 

 

Yes. Scholar's "I took an interest in all matters arcane." and the Mystic's "I spend my days studying theology." should be switched. It's not a perfect fit, but it fits far better than Theology does for Mystics, imo.

[Karkarov]

And "can't you just"? Don't be ridiiculous. Heironymous Fogglebottom is a renowned highwayman from The White That Wends. He's no mere mercenary and he's certainly not from the Deadfyre Archipelago.

Lul.

 

In all seriousness "Raider" is typically used to describe pirates, vikings, or other people who rush in, kill everything, and loot lots of time by way of a boat.  There is a reason the NFL team the "Raiders" logo is a pirate wearing a football helmet.  A highwayman on the other hand is just a bandit who ambushes people on the road, they don't tend to rape, pillage, work in large groups, or go out looking for people.  They just hide on the road and wait for easy targets to walk by.  They aren't similar at all .

[Dadalama]

Here's another question, why can you be an aristocrat from the white that wends? I'm sure there's a ruling class but it just doesn't seem like the place with noble houses that far removed from the daily grind.

[Karkarov]

Here's another question, why can you be an aristocrat from the white that wends? I'm sure there's a ruling class but it just doesn't seem like the place with noble houses that far removed from the daily grind.

The White that Wends is the equivalent of Antartica, there is no ruling class.  Hell there is probably no organized society at all other than some pale elves who likely migrate constantly.

[Luckmann]

 

And "can't you just"? Don't be ridiiculous. Heironymous Fogglebottom is a renowned highwayman from The White That Wends. He's no mere mercenary and he's certainly not from the Deadfyre Archipelago.

Lul.

 

In all seriousness "Raider" is typically used to describe pirates, vikings, or other people who rush in, kill everything, and loot lots of time by way of a boat.  There is a reason the NFL team the "Raiders" logo is a pirate wearing a football helmet.  A highwayman on the other hand is just a bandit who ambushes people on the road, they don't tend to rape, pillage, work in large groups, or go out looking for people.  They just hide on the road and wait for easy targets to walk by.  They aren't similar at all .

 

 

I know, which is why "Raider" in this case just seems to mean violent criminal thug, or something to that effect, I mean, I can see how you can raid caravans and so on, too.

 

 

 

Here's another question, why can you be an aristocrat from the white that wends? I'm sure there's a ruling class but it just doesn't seem like the place with noble houses that far removed from the daily grind.

The White that Wends is the equivalent of Antartica, there is no ruling class.  Hell there is probably no organized society at all other than some pale elves who likely migrate constantly.

 

 

I dunno. I get a "mythic continent" kind of vibe from The White That Wends, along with the obvious "It's just bloody Antarctica"-thing. I do agree that "Aristocrat" feels all kinds of wrong, though. Like Dadalama said, I'm sure there's a ruling class, and I'd go a step further and say that it might even be well organized, and layers upon layers and all that jazz.. but it doesn't feel... aristocratic.

 

Even the Deadfire Archepilago (...dammit, I want to call it Deadfyre) can say that it has pirate princes or something, but Aristocrat should probably be restricted from both The White That Wends as well as The Living Lands.

[cogwheel]

Why are philosophers restricted to Ixamitl? 

 

Don't worry about it, OP.  Effectively, Obsidian tried to make each region particularly (in)famous for a particular occupation.  Lawlessness is apparently common on the Archipelago, and making the Raider origin unique to it was a way to drive that home to the player.

 

As for a raider hailing from The White That Wends, I would actually argue that's a bit illogical.  It's a barren, frozen wasteland... not exactly ripe pickings for piracy/raiding/robbing. 

 

The origin occupation is supposed to be something the player-character did while they were living in that place, not something they started doing after they left.  Arbitrarily restrictive, I know, but the background origin doesn't even seem to be relevant after one conversation with Calisca.

[Luckmann]

Why are philosophers restricted to Ixamitl? 

 

Don't worry about it, OP.  Effectively, Obsidian tried to make each region particularly (in)famous for a particular occupation.  Lawlessness is apparently common on the Archipelago, and making the Raider origin unique to it was a way to drive that home to the player.

 

As for a raider hailing from The White That Wends, I would actually argue that's a bit illogical.  It's a barren, frozen wasteland... not exactly ripe pickings for piracy/raiding/robbing. 

 

The origin occupation is supposed to be something the player-character did while they were living in that place, not something they started doing after they left.  Arbitrarily restrictive, I know, but the background origin doesn't even seem to be relevant after one conversation with Calisca.

 

Because philosophy isn't a big thing anywhere else? I'm thinking aristotelian and socratic philosophy is only really a big thing in Ixamitl, which would actually explain why they get Scholar, too, since they'd have academia of a sort, I guess.

 

And yes, I get that lawlessness is a big thing in the Archipelago - it's more or less right there in the description of it - but would you say that you'd be a highwayman in an archipelago?

 

As for The White That Wends, I'm getting some definite Winterfell/Beyond-the-Wall-vibes from it, too. It sounds like exactly the kind of place that would have entire tribes that engages in raiding, if anything.

 

And I don't think it sounds like an arbitrary restriction at all. The Background is supposed to be in your background, after all. And it is relevant, because it affects some conversation options, and it defines part of your biography.

[Crucis]

I can understand that there may have been some limitations on how many backgrounds were possible.  But a guy can wish for more, a lot more.  Maybe it's me, but I don't recall a lot of use of one's background in dialogs throughout the game.  While I suppose that it'd be nice if there was more, it's not a huge deal for me.  I'd probably rather just have a lot more backgrounds, if only because it helps those of us who enjoy role playing out characters immerse ourselves that much more into the role.

 

It's interesting, Luckmann, that you brought up "highwayman", as that could be one possible background.  But regarding the most memorable background/dialog interaction, in the prologue with Calisca where she asks you about your background, I could see characters with certain backgrounds not wanting said background known.  I mean, if you  were a raider or a highwayman or some other sort of criminal and running away from your past life, would you tell people what you used to do?  Would you tell a caravan leader that you used to rob people on the road and expect to get a spot in his caravan?  I think that most can see that some backgrounds you'd keep to yourselves or even come up with a lie about your background.  Hey, you'd be selling stuff if you were a thief, right?  You just wouldn't tell some people where you happened to get the stuff you were selling, or that you were selling to fences. 

 

I'd love to see things like soldier, and game warden (a reasonable background for a ranger or maybe a druid who didn't want to think of himself as a hunter).  And I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to come up with a dozen more possible backgrounds that were reasonable. 

[Luckmann]

I can understand that there may have been some limitations on how many backgrounds were possible.  But a guy can wish for more, a lot more.  Maybe it's me, but I don't recall a lot of use of one's background in dialogs throughout the game.  While I suppose that it'd be nice if there was more, it's not a huge deal for me.  I'd probably rather just have a lot more backgrounds, if only because it helps those of us who enjoy role playing out characters immerse ourselves that much more into the role.

 

It's interesting, Luckmann, that you brought up "highwayman", as that could be one possible background.  But regarding the most memorable background/dialog interaction, in the prologue with Calisca where she asks you about your background, I could see characters with certain backgrounds not wanting said background known.  I mean, if you  were a raider or a highwayman or some other sort of criminal and running away from your past life, would you tell people what you used to do?  Would you tell a caravan leader that you used to rob people on the road and expect to get a spot in his caravan?  I think that most can see that some backgrounds you'd keep to yourselves or even come up with a lie about your background.  Hey, you'd be selling stuff if you were a thief, right?  You just wouldn't tell some people where you happened to get the stuff you were selling, or that you were selling to fences. 

 

I'd love to see things like soldier, and game warden (a reasonable background for a ranger or maybe a druid who didn't want to think of himself as a hunter).  And I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to come up with a dozen more possible backgrounds that were reasonable. 

 

A game warden could probably a Hunter; one of the options is simply "I used to spend a lot of time on my own in the wilderness". Funnily enough, Hunter also covers Fisherman.

 

They should probably add some information on what each Background "covers" in terms of roleplaying. Like adding "The hunter background describes anyone that used to hunt or gather for their village, hunted monsters for a living, acted as a game warden or outdoorsman, or simply was a dedicated fisherman" to the Hunter text.

 

"The laborer background can be used to describe someone that did manual labour for a living, such as being a builder, a blacksmith or a cook".

 

I mean, look at Clergyman. If you pick Clergyman, it's probably because you want to be a Clergyman, right? Well, one of the options is actually to tell Calisca that, nu-uh, it's just a lie you tell people so you can manipulate them. So the Clergyman background can also be used for a con-man. ...except, well, the conversation options you'll unlock later all has to do with being an actual clergyman, but w/e.

 

Either way, yeah, I can wish for a lot more.

 

 

Not really. That's just a lie I tell people so I can manipulate them.